Not By Works

[dcontroversal]

This is so forceful. What foundation is this based on. You did not read what was written and are denying what
you agree with. If this is how you correct it is just presumption on your part without grace.

I said what I said because it was false.....the bible is clear.....IT IS NOT THAT WE LOVED HIM, BUT THAT HE LOVED US AND GAVE HIMSELF FOR US.......HE did all of that BEFORE we could LOVE HIM

Originally Posted by loveme1

His work and Promises are to those that Love and obey Him..

Originally Posted by dcontroversal

WRONG......it is not that we loved HIM but that HE LOVED US AND CALLED US WITH A HOLY CALLING....JESUS begins that work of faith in us before we ever level one ounce of LOVE toward GOD and the LOVE of GOD in us is a process of GROWTH and MATURITY.....NICE try, but your premise is wrong.

 

[blue_ladybug]

Maybe it's just my (as Dcon once told me, lol) simplistic approach to God and the bible, but to me, it's fairly obvious that HE loved us first. After all, WE weren't even around in Jesus' time, to know and accept Him and His love.. but in His all-knowing manner, He loved us before we were even born..

 

[dcontroversal]

Can someone please help me to understand this verse in relation to OSAS? 1 Corinthians 6:9-11

9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.


My question is then, if a person is these things (a thief, a drunk, a fornicator, etc) will they inherit the kingdom of God? Now I know the immediate excuse is that a true genuine believer wouldn't be such things, but instead of using circular reasoning consider for a moment if a Christian were practicing these things. No difference between their old self and the new in Christ, are they simply receiving their free ticket to Heaven and staying as they were? Or is this evidence of a false conversion (how convenient an excuse)?

The point being, is it possible for a Christian to be these things and what is the consequence? Simply a loss of rewards at the Bema seat? How shameful such an existence, you would agree? Nevertheless, are we so sure that there is no out once in? Cannot a man have his name written in the Book of Life and choose to erase it? Regardless of how terrible a decision that is? I can already see the response, mind you, God wouldn't elect a person to be in the Book of Life who would then choose to erase their name. Sigh... give me scripture, show me the truth.

PS: No offense intended here, I am asking for help in understanding.

The bible is clear......ALL sin, every sin has been paid for in Christ.....ALL believers who sin are now dealt with as SONS and chastised instead of being condemned.....the very letter you cite contained a man who was a fornicator who was to be cut lose for the destruction of the FLESH that the SPIRIT would be saved in the day of Christ...DAVID who spoke of his salvation in the present tense committed adultery and murder and yet was forgiven.....this concept is applied unto ALL who are not in Christ and the warning to believers is to remind them that they used to be like that and that now they are washed, sanctified and justified.....

and you are correct....the PRODIGAL deals with a son who squanders his inheritance through riotous living....a believer will be whipped, lose reward, forfeit reward and can stand before God with works of wood, hay and stubble yet still be received as a saved child of GOD covered under the blood.......

ALSO....a saved child of God can stumble, fail and commit everyone of these sins, yet will not live a continual lifestyle of sin....they will repent, return or have the flesh destroyed yet the spirit is still saved in the day of Christ......

the scripture is replete with these truths........IMV

 

[PeterJens]

His view that one can walk away or forfeit faith totally disregards and dismisses the fact that

a. JESUS begins our faith
b. JESUS FINISHES our FAITH
c. JESUS COPMPLETES the good work of faith he BEGAN IN US

IT states clearly that JESUS cannot FINISH what he started and or COMPLETE in us that GOOD WORK he began....it devalues and degrades the POWER and WORK of CHRIST....it makes him INEPT and FALSE in his promise to FINISH and COMPLETE it.....how can one be that BLIND to what they are actually saying when they say YOU can forfeit and walk away from the very GOD of heaven and what he PROMISES to FINISH and COMPLETE...

This is just fatalism.

You, dc. are falsely accusing a brother of devaluing the cross, when it is you who claim merely
from your failure to apply Jesus words to your sinful heart, that you do not need to and being
lost in sin and dominated by it is our expected state.

It is this reality of victory you call a hypocritical hope, a lie, empty legalism, because breaking the law
just shows need not is the start of repentance redemption and final victory.

When Jesus says "you have not resisted sin to the point of death" He did not mean sinning is ok, but
good servants you are walking in my will by not sinning.

Now some crazies say the big sins we miss, but the real issues we do not. When they list them, it shows
they are deceived and are still sinning in the big areas. The trick they have fallen for is to deny what sin
actually is. So much simple spiritual deception. We are called to follow and love from the heart.

It comes from giving up your life and living to Christ. These hobby religionists have no clue.

 

[PeterJens]

Can someone please help me to understand this verse in relation to OSAS? 1 Corinthians 6:9-11

9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.


My question is then, if a person is these things (a thief, a drunk, a fornicator, etc) will they inherit the kingdom of God? Now I know the immediate excuse is that a true genuine believer wouldn't be such things, but instead of using circular reasoning consider for a moment if a Christian were practicing these things. No difference between their old self and the new in Christ, are they simply receiving their free ticket to Heaven and staying as they were? Or is this evidence of a false conversion (how convenient an excuse)?

The point being, is it possible for a Christian to be these things and what is the consequence? Simply a loss of rewards at the Bema seat? How shameful such an existence, you would agree? Nevertheless, are we so sure that there is no out once in? Cannot a man have his name written in the Book of Life and choose to erase it? Regardless of how terrible a decision that is? I can already see the response, mind you, God wouldn't elect a person to be in the Book of Life who would then choose to erase their name. Sigh... give me scripture, show me the truth.

PS: No offense intended here, I am asking for help in understanding.

Light and darkness. Sin occurs because needs are not met and hurt remains. Dying to self, humbling ones
heart takes time, and we are like caught in headlights not seeing ourselves at first. So bowing before the
Lord is the beginning, working it through is the fruit. The longer people put off true resolution the more
the root of faith dies.

I read a testimony of a gay couple who came to Christ. As they grew in faith and God, so their feelings
changed and the relationships moved on into something honouring the Lord. In this process things take time
and a choice will need to be made, Stop sinning or leave the Lord. Most believers know how to show love
and be helpful through the process. Climbing a mountain is one step at a time, but you do get there.

 

[TruthTalk]

TruthT, you don't have anything to prove to us regarding your military background.

Thank you Blue, there "were some of late", who miss trust everyone, just wanted to establish the Truth, and you get an award, "Rep", for being the nicest person on this forum.....

 

[PeterJens]

I said what I said because it was false.....the bible is clear.....IT IS NOT THAT WE LOVED HIM, BUT THAT HE LOVED US AND GAVE HIMSELF FOR US.......HE did all of that BEFORE we could LOVE HIM

Originally Posted by loveme1

His work and Promises are to those that Love and obey Him..

Originally Posted by dcontroversal

WRONG......it is not that we loved HIM but that HE LOVED US AND CALLED US WITH A HOLY CALLING....JESUS begins that work of faith in us before we ever level one ounce of LOVE toward GOD and the LOVE of GOD in us is a process of GROWTH and MATURITY.....NICE try, but your premise is wrong.

But that is what she said also. God is love, and He loves all. The love we love with is His love reflected back.
Some deny the need to love, saying it is too hard and legalistic. They are right because love has not broken
into their hearts, because they are hard, so for them to love would be legalism. You have to let love in
before you can begin to love others. It is why having an open heart is part of knowing Christ.
But the hard hearted do not know this, because to them the only reality is where they are and there
is nothing else or they would know !!!!!

 

[blue_ladybug]

Awww thank you.. and thank you for the rep..

Thank you Blue, there "were some of late", who miss trust everyone, just wanted to establish the Truth, and you get an award, "Rep", for being the nicest person on this forum.....

 

[dcontroversal]

This is just fatalism.

You, dc. are falsely accusing a brother of devaluing the cross, when it is you who claim merely
from your failure to apply Jesus words to your sinful heart, that you do not need to and being
lost in sin and dominated by it is our expected state.

It is this reality of victory you call a hypocritical hope, a lie, empty legalism, because breaking the law
just shows need not is the start of repentance redemption and final victory.

When Jesus says "you have not resisted sin to the point of death" He did not mean sinning is ok, but
good servants you are walking in my will by not sinning.

Now some crazies say the big sins we miss, but the real issues we do not. When they list them, it shows
they are deceived and are still sinning in the big areas. The trick they have fallen for is to deny what sin
actually is. So much simple spiritual deception. We are called to follow and love from the heart.

It comes from giving up your life and living to Christ. These hobby religionists have no clue.

WHAT I said is valid and true....I could care less if you receive it and too be honest.....what you say carries no value or weight with me...A man that states the cross is not enough, or that the imputed righteousness of Christ is a neat little trick that does not work or to believe in the security found in Christ as a idol....has lost any and all credibility in my eyes as being from God or having any understanding of biblical principles....good day.

Originally Posted by dcontroversal

His view that one can walk away or forfeit faith totally disregards and dismisses the fact that

a. JESUS begins our faith
b. JESUS FINISHES our FAITH
c. JESUS COPMPLETES the good work of faith he BEGAN IN US

IT states clearly that JESUS cannot FINISH what he started and or COMPLETE in us that GOOD WORK he began....it devalues and degrades the POWER and WORK of CHRIST....it makes him INEPT and FALSE in his promise to FINISH and COMPLETE it.....how can one be that BLIND to what they are actually saying when they say YOU can forfeit and walk away from the very GOD of heaven and what he PROMISES to FINISH and COMPLETE...

 

[dcontroversal]

But that is what she said also. God is love, and He loves all. The love we love with is His love reflected back.
Some deny the need to love, saying it is too hard and legalistic. They are right because love has not broken
into their hearts, because they are hard, so for them to love would be legalism. You have to let love in
before you can begin to love others. It is why having an open heart is part of knowing Christ.
But the hard hearted do not know this, because to them the only reality is where they are and there
is nothing else or they would know !!!!!

This was the opening quote and it does not bear out......the love of God, promises of God, salvation of God, justification of God, Sealing of God, Sanctification of God is applied in JESUS unto ALL out of GOD'S love toward us BEFORE we can even understand and or show ur love back.....LOVING GOD is a process of GROWTH and MATURITY AFTER one has been SAVED....

 

[VCO]

. . .
1) Photo of my discharge papers called, "DD214", anyone in the military knows what that mean's, "freedom."
Plus Photo of our Division Patch and "Dog Tag" I lost one along the way, the military issues 2 tags to every soldier.

2) Plus a bonus photo of my wife and her family in Thailand, dear Mom is in the middle she is 78yrs old. And a Presidential award given to me for making it home from a war zone. It is called the Presidential Accommodation Metal and is given to all veteran's who finish their duty honorably, it is a common award to all vets, in a hostile war zone.

Oh and my wife is standing to the left of her Mom

God bless

You have nothing to apologize for, we understood that banned False Accuser was the one lying, his ATTITUDE
was the dead giveaway. But while we are on the subject, that DD214 gets you VA I.D. cards, that comes with lots of benefits. It gets VA medical benifits and eyecare with a small share of cost, only a $9 share of cost per Med no matter what it is, free burial at a VA Cemetary, and I placed my wife's ashes in Veteran's Wall, near where we used to live, and that only cost $400 even though she was not a Vet, and the Stone was Free and has my name and rank, and her name on it. So when the Lord calls me home, my ashes will be in the box with hers. And that V.A. Cemetary is beautifully maintained, even though it is out in the High Desert. Other benifits from the DD214, include: V.A. Loans, 10% off all purchases at HOME DEPOT, 10% off all purchases at the store and online at LOWES. And there are other benifits too. The draft dodger's had no idea how much moving to Canada was going to cost them.

 

[PeterJens]

WHAT I said is valid and true....I could care less if you receive it and too be honest.....what you say carries no value or weight with me...A man that states the cross is not enough, or that the imputed righteousness of Christ is a neat little trick that does not work or to believe in the security found in Christ as a idol....has lost any and all credibility in my eyes as being from God or having any understanding of biblical principles....good day.

Originally Posted by dcontroversal

His view that one can walk away or forfeit faith totally disregards and dismisses the fact that

a. JESUS begins our faith
b. JESUS FINISHES our FAITH
c. JESUS COPMPLETES the good work of faith he BEGAN IN US

IT states clearly that JESUS cannot FINISH what he started and or COMPLETE in us that GOOD WORK he began....it devalues and degrades the POWER and WORK of CHRIST....it makes him INEPT and FALSE in his promise to FINISH and COMPLETE it.....how can one be that BLIND to what they are actually saying when they say YOU can forfeit and walk away from the very GOD of heaven and what he PROMISES to FINISH and COMPLETE...

You are a strange guy.
You neither understand my position or respond properly.
You cannot even be dismissive with any real force.

Repeating your statements does not make the true, because you fail to recognise
the difference between what is written and what you write.

You want to be a condemer and a Universalist is your choice. My words have no power
unless I reflect Gods perspective. It may be new to you, but your regard of me changes nothing.
Gods reality is all that matters, and by His grace we can reflect it.

It is sad that you have so little fruit, that seeing any truth in my sharing is so hard for you.
You have great perseverance, to repeat the same ideas, day after day with the same words,
Lol. Are you a human or an AI. I think you have failed the Turing test

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Where can I find this in my Bible?

we can overpower GOD because we desire to love and obey... not so.

GOD is Faithful what members here are relaying is that we are to be Faithful and love and Trust by being a doer of the Royal law.

We cant find it in scripture. That was my point.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

He is reading the Bible it is better for you to leave him be.. you have no judgement to pass on Him.. the young man will fare well continuing to believe the Word of GOD over man.

Lol, this is funny. You do not even know what is going on. I suggest you just back away, and go back to what you were doing.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Correct. You CHOSE to trust in him.


How do you know that the choice you made to trust in what God convinced you is true can never ever be reversed? It was a choice then, how is it not now? After you choose to believe, does God now make the choice of believing/trusting in the gospel for you?

Why? Because we only lose faith when the one we place our faiht in lets us down, God will neve4r let me down, so I will never lose faith.

Again, My faith is in God, not man, That is why it will persist. It may go up and down, but it will never cease.

I'm 31 years old in the Lord now. Not 31 years of passive, "yeah, I'm saved" salvation. But an active, interested, learning, and growing, and serving, and focused 31 years of salvation. And I will tell you right now that our relationship with Christ is like a marriage. You start out with stars in your eyes and think that nothing can come between you and your devotion and love for your spouse. It's the same with God. You're kidding yourself if you think your relationship with God will always be like it was on the first day, or in the first six months. You will most likely find that love for God wanes and must be nurtured and maintained like love in a human marriage does. That is why the Bible exhorts us not to forsake our first love. Don't be fooled into thinking the love you have for God now is too good to not always be that way. Everybody, sooner or later, has to face their Garden of Gethsamene, or their Job trial that will try their faith in the gospel. If your soil is good, you'll make it through. But don't think it has an automatic outcome because you're just so crazy in love with God now.

How silly, you comnpair God to a spouse who will let you down? It is easy to think and understand I can lose faiht in my spouse, my spouse does not have the capacity to fulfill all my needs. My God does.

Again, My faith may waver, I may not be as excited as I was in the beginning, But I will NEVER LOSE FAITH in my God.

You offend God when you claim we can lose faiht in him, do you not understand that? Your humanizing him, thats a sin!

You'd have a point if God said he promised to do our believing for us. But as it is, he did not promise that. He will provide the faith and encouragement so we can trust and believe, but he does not do our believing for us.

My point stands, God will never let you down, to claim you can lose faiht in God is to humanize him, and proves you never really had faith in him to begin with.

Actually, I resist labels. But sometimes it's the only way to talk to another person so they understand what you're saying. I'm good with simply addressing each individual issue without labels. I use 'OSAS' because I do not want to type out 'Once Saved Always Saved' all the time. That is not a label.

You went after him as a Calvinist. You used labels. Now your saying you resist them.

Again, You need to go back and read your posts to yourself. You labeled Calvinist. And argued against a Calvinist perspective, with a person who is not even a Calvinist.

 

[TruthTalk]

Making "merit" at a Thai Temple, (not my wife and I we have the Holy Spirit with us can you see, ), but the Thai do this all year long at special holiday's. Their belief is that their "Merit" will go with them when they die. A Merit can be what ever you can afford to bring to the temple, such as money, food and supplies. It not only gives support to the monks because they use everything, but your gifts will go before you.

Celebrating Mom 80th Birthday and the New Year at the same time. My wife and I both believe that she believed and profess her faith in Jesus, shortly before she passed away the following month, praise God. Her Birthday is the same day we celebrate Jesus Birthday Dec.25th, God is so good. Far left is our niece eating noodles, then my wife, then me, then Mom. Our niece just returned from New South Wales, Australia, on a 5yr School Visa, her dream is to be a Doctor, straight "A" student.

These lighted balloon's are called "comloy's", more merit making, when you send up a comloy you make a prayer that all your troubles will go away, traditionally a New Year's Eve celebration for the entire Kingdom. This is our back yard and if you take notice behind my wife in the dark is the village Temple, with about 10 monks who live there full time.

But the Chrstian Faith is the free gift of God apart from, "merit/work's". which Thai folks understand but often reject for lack of need, because they are comfortable in their works driven belief.

God bless, and I promise no more pix's just, Bible Discussion, and scripture.....

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Eg are you a Calvinist believer?

No, Nor am I Armenian, nor and I catholic.

You want to know what I believe, read what I say, try not to put me under some group. Thats why people can never figure out what people saying, because they read and try to set them up under a group or following. If you try to interpret me from Calvinist view, you will have a hard time figuring out what I believe.

 

[PeterJens]

Lol, this is funny. You do not even know what is going on. I suggest you just back away, and go back to what you were doing.

Such interesting and condescending words. Ben is very capable of holding his own
and actually honestly following through on ideas and scripture.

It is you who show time and again simple realities are shown but you dismiss as if
they are nothing. It always staggers me when those who claim to follow Christ
deny His word and truth. We are called to agree with God, not man, but if at ones
core Jesus words bring condemnation, one is 100% in the wrong place.

And my friend this is not my projection, but your own confession.
By your own words you will be condemned or acquitted.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Unbelief is in fact the one thing that the power of God can not overcome. That's why so many people are going to be condemned on the Day of Wrath, not saved.

There you have it folks. God is limited. He can not overcome and keep people who have his eternal life, his justification, his righteousness, his holy spiritHoly Spirit, His Eternal life, His perfection, and his promise to continue the work he started UNTIL the day of christ. From losing faith.

Nothing else needs said.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Salvation is not free because it requires nothing at all. It is free in that it does not require works of righteousness to earn it. But believing is most certainly the requirement to receive the free gift of eternal life. If you do not satisfy that condition for the free gift you will most certainly lose what you had when you did believe.

It is ther work of God we believe in the one he sent, My faith is not a work, and it is not done to earn anything.

The gift of life is free. Period.

No, it's quite clear that the warnings are addressed to real believers. You can't lose something you never had in the first place.

Yep, You can't lose something you never had,

The people who had never lost. They never left. They never stopped.

The people who left. Never had.

Thats what scripture teaches.