then show some. reference some. you, peterjens, and a couple more say this very often, yet do not show any proof. if they are so many on " our side " ( we are not a side, we just do not have agendas ), saying that sin is no big deal, behavior does not matter, righteous living is not important, then point them out directly. if not, perhaps you should stop bearing false witness??
Not By Works
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My friend Jesus can truly say who He knows and acknowledges and who He does not.
Just look at church history. It is littered with people who claim to know Jesus and even
kill on His behalf. I know many who stand up and say "Thus says the Lord"..... and the rest
is from their own imaginations.
Jesus said among us the enemy will sow weeds. But to weed out the bad from the good
would damage the good, so He will not do this. So Jesus is testifying that in the same group
there will be those who truly know the King and He knows them and those who do not. And
it does not matter, because we are told how to behave towards everyone and unless there
is obvious sin, to treat each brother and sister as a blessing and gift from God.
Some appear though to be bigger than God and want to actively weed out people they label
as evil and wrong, who are going to hell and leading others to hell ( quote of actual words used ).
I have led people to Christ who I would just rejoice with, that in their weakness God has moved in
their hearts. If I can I want to encourage them, but unless it is obvious heresy, I would just
encourage.
So this animosity and division by some, and teaching which condemns believers as anti-Christ is
heresy, because it has no theological foundation, but is extra-biblical interpretation and mystical
beliefs in what it means to be born again, which contradict the teaching of Jesus, and the apostles.
It is amazing that still the same empty arguments are brought forward which have been shown to be
empty, yet the actual theology and concepts are avoided, because the emotional need is stronger
than the truth.
Put simply you either are in the Kingdom and walk in Jesus's ways or not.
Just look at church history. It is littered with people who claim to know Jesus and even
kill on His behalf. I know many who stand up and say "Thus says the Lord"..... and the rest
is from their own imaginations.
Jesus said among us the enemy will sow weeds. But to weed out the bad from the good
would damage the good, so He will not do this. So Jesus is testifying that in the same group
there will be those who truly know the King and He knows them and those who do not. And
it does not matter, because we are told how to behave towards everyone and unless there
is obvious sin, to treat each brother and sister as a blessing and gift from God.
Some appear though to be bigger than God and want to actively weed out people they label
as evil and wrong, who are going to hell and leading others to hell ( quote of actual words used ).
I have led people to Christ who I would just rejoice with, that in their weakness God has moved in
their hearts. If I can I want to encourage them, but unless it is obvious heresy, I would just
encourage.
So this animosity and division by some, and teaching which condemns believers as anti-Christ is
heresy, because it has no theological foundation, but is extra-biblical interpretation and mystical
beliefs in what it means to be born again, which contradict the teaching of Jesus, and the apostles.
It is amazing that still the same empty arguments are brought forward which have been shown to be
empty, yet the actual theology and concepts are avoided, because the emotional need is stronger
than the truth.
Put simply you either are in the Kingdom and walk in Jesus's ways or not.
There were a few recently claiming that Judas was saved, even though Jesus knew from the beginning who was going to betray Him (something else a few of them denied), and Jesus also said that Judas was not clean. Same idea, though I have not read all the posts that lead up to this one... just got home 
The Word is clear, we either submit to God's righteousness for our salvation or we do not...can't do both.
Romans 10:3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.
The word is also clear about what happens when we try and mix law and grace...
Revelation 3:16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.
We either trust in Jesus as our savior or we try and save ourselves. We either trust Jesus to keep us saved or we try and keep ourselves saved.
Forgetting the fact that we as humans can never, ever be 100% righteous in and of ourselves (the standard for Heaven) it is the height of arrogance to think that it is our our actions somehow determine if we "stay in God's grace" instead of His grace being the determining factor.
Is sin bad? Obviously. Can we ever hope to lead a sin free life?? I mean 100% sin free?? Go ahead and try and see how that works out for ya.
It is only by realizing both our true identity in Christ and having faith that we are who God says we are and not who we "feel" or "think" we are that we finally become free to follow the 2 commandments Jesus left us as His followers.
Then and only then are we able to switch from the toxic faith where we try and gain our self worth by attempting to reach goals set up by humans to a genuine faith where we can be confident in our self worth because God makes us worthy. Once this happens we can then begin to love God first and love our neighbor as we love ourselves.
God and God alone can enlighten a person who will not see, in the meantime we should genuinely pray for those still chained to religion that they to may have a spiritual awakening and come to know Jesus. I think it's important to remember that this is all for God's glory and not to prove one side over the other.
Shalom.
Romans 10:3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.
The word is also clear about what happens when we try and mix law and grace...
Revelation 3:16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.
We either trust in Jesus as our savior or we try and save ourselves. We either trust Jesus to keep us saved or we try and keep ourselves saved.
Forgetting the fact that we as humans can never, ever be 100% righteous in and of ourselves (the standard for Heaven) it is the height of arrogance to think that it is our our actions somehow determine if we "stay in God's grace" instead of His grace being the determining factor.
Is sin bad? Obviously. Can we ever hope to lead a sin free life?? I mean 100% sin free?? Go ahead and try and see how that works out for ya.
It is only by realizing both our true identity in Christ and having faith that we are who God says we are and not who we "feel" or "think" we are that we finally become free to follow the 2 commandments Jesus left us as His followers.
Then and only then are we able to switch from the toxic faith where we try and gain our self worth by attempting to reach goals set up by humans to a genuine faith where we can be confident in our self worth because God makes us worthy. Once this happens we can then begin to love God first and love our neighbor as we love ourselves.
God and God alone can enlighten a person who will not see, in the meantime we should genuinely pray for those still chained to religion that they to may have a spiritual awakening and come to know Jesus. I think it's important to remember that this is all for God's glory and not to prove one side over the other.
Shalom.
I see how you are seeing it.
I don't know was he saved.
I always thought no, but I don't know exactly what went on between him and God in that moment of death. He killed himself over what he had done. That connotes sorrow unlike anything else. To end your own life for something you have done.
But I see how you are seeing it.
I don't know was he saved.
I always thought no, but I don't know exactly what went on between him and God in that moment of death. He killed himself over what he had done. That connotes sorrow unlike anything else. To end your own life for something you have done.
But I see how you are seeing it.
Not a top 40 Christian hit single; Possibly a good Sunday School worship song. I always liked the song, "Father Abraham has many kids, many kids has Father Abraham, and you are one of them and so am I, so lets just praise the Lord!" lalala!
In my mind I tried to reason;
Turn around Jonah; Turn around Jonah
God's gotta fish just a lookin' for you;
turn around Jonah. turn around
In my mind I tried to reason with Jonah to turn around and go God's way, but it took God's grace and a huge fish to accomplish that, thanks for asking....
In my mind I tried to reason;
Turn around Jonah; Turn around Jonah
God's gotta fish just a lookin' for you;
turn around Jonah. turn around
In my mind I tried to reason with Jonah to turn around and go God's way, but it took God's grace and a huge fish to accomplish that, thanks for asking....
This is false teaching with no biblical proof.
Spiritual warfare is a big struggle for a christian to pray, believe, refusing temptation, rebuking the Devil, etc.
Obedience is faithful works..... not sitting on our backsides saying "I believe"
Here's the thing..... why wouldn't those that "scrutinize" others post for innaccuracies let such deliberate heresy slide right on by?
(Hint, hint) Because they're on the same side.
Spiritual warfare is a big struggle for a christian to pray, believe, refusing temptation, rebuking the Devil, etc.
Obedience is faithful works..... not sitting on our backsides saying "I believe"
Here's the thing..... why wouldn't those that "scrutinize" others post for innaccuracies let such deliberate heresy slide right on by?
(Hint, hint) Because they're on the same side.
This whole discussion is based on a simple miss-understanding of life principles.
1. Behaviour is governed by emotional loyalties, cultural behaviour, moral outlooks
2. Guilt or desire for change is raised by failure within moral frameworks and expectations
If one claims God is not concerned with these issues, though all His pronouncements address
behaviour and guilt for failure, then claiming this freedom from following any principles or precepts
is saying behaviour does not matter.
As soon as you say, no behaviour does matter, then one accepts rules and principles, because to
say behaviour matters means one has accepted a way of measuring behaviour and classing it into
good behaviour and bad behaviour.
It is impossible, impossible, impossible to hold behaviour is not something God is concerned about and
then still say moral frameworks matter.
I have to rank this contradiction into the world of either people are toooooo stupid to understand what
they are talking about, or they are happy to contradict their own ideas, or they are so emotionally conflicted
rational discussion on this subject is impossible ( ie they are slightly mad )
So it is either
1. Stupid
2. Emotionally conflicted
3. Mad
In my most charitable moments I conclude option 2 is applicable.
And people caught here are like flat earthers, evidence is irrelevant because they reject anything
as the enemy which contradicts their own convictions.
Now I know mad people, who have solid convictions about lots of things that are just inventions
of their mind, so it is not an insult, but a reality one has to face.
How do you know when someone falls into this catagory?
They get very upset when you show them they are wrong, angry, insulted, annoyed, and desire to
attack and literally destroy you.
And choose almost any subject in life and you will find a scale where everyone falls on it, including
Mr Trump, lol.
1. Behaviour is governed by emotional loyalties, cultural behaviour, moral outlooks
2. Guilt or desire for change is raised by failure within moral frameworks and expectations
If one claims God is not concerned with these issues, though all His pronouncements address
behaviour and guilt for failure, then claiming this freedom from following any principles or precepts
is saying behaviour does not matter.
As soon as you say, no behaviour does matter, then one accepts rules and principles, because to
say behaviour matters means one has accepted a way of measuring behaviour and classing it into
good behaviour and bad behaviour.
It is impossible, impossible, impossible to hold behaviour is not something God is concerned about and
then still say moral frameworks matter.
I have to rank this contradiction into the world of either people are toooooo stupid to understand what
they are talking about, or they are happy to contradict their own ideas, or they are so emotionally conflicted
rational discussion on this subject is impossible ( ie they are slightly mad )
So it is either
1. Stupid
2. Emotionally conflicted
3. Mad
In my most charitable moments I conclude option 2 is applicable.
And people caught here are like flat earthers, evidence is irrelevant because they reject anything
as the enemy which contradicts their own convictions.
Now I know mad people, who have solid convictions about lots of things that are just inventions
of their mind, so it is not an insult, but a reality one has to face.
How do you know when someone falls into this catagory?
They get very upset when you show them they are wrong, angry, insulted, annoyed, and desire to
attack and literally destroy you.
And choose almost any subject in life and you will find a scale where everyone falls on it, including
Mr Trump, lol.
Resting in Christ's work on the cross and resurrection is our faith in action.
Resting in Christ's work on the cross and resurrection is our spiritual warfare.
Resting in Christ's work on the cross and resurrection is our obedience of faith.
From this resting - a Holy Spirit led life will come about and the grace of God in us working will manifest in good deeds being done. Good works birthed by Christ Himself in us.
Paul said that he worked more than the other apostles yet not of himself - but the grace of God with Him.
Hebrews 4:9-11 (NASB)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] So there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God.
[SUP]10 [/SUP] For the one who has entered His rest has himself also rested from his works, as God did from His.
[SUP]11 [/SUP] Therefore let us be diligent to enter that rest, so that no one will fall, through following the same example of disobedience.
The Greek word for "disobedience" is "unbelief". This unbelief stems from not believing the word that God has said.
539. [FONT="Galatia Sil" !important]ἀπείθεια[/FONT] [FONT="Gentium" !important]apeitheia[/FONT] noun
Disobedience, willful unbelief, obstinacy.
Complete Biblical Library Greek-English Dictionary, The - The Complete Biblical Library Greek-English Dictionary – Alpha-Gamma.
Resting in Christ's work on the cross and resurrection is our spiritual warfare.
Resting in Christ's work on the cross and resurrection is our obedience of faith.
From this resting - a Holy Spirit led life will come about and the grace of God in us working will manifest in good deeds being done. Good works birthed by Christ Himself in us.
Paul said that he worked more than the other apostles yet not of himself - but the grace of God with Him.
Hebrews 4:9-11 (NASB)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] So there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God.
[SUP]10 [/SUP] For the one who has entered His rest has himself also rested from his works, as God did from His.
[SUP]11 [/SUP] Therefore let us be diligent to enter that rest, so that no one will fall, through following the same example of disobedience.
The Greek word for "disobedience" is "unbelief". This unbelief stems from not believing the word that God has said.
539. [FONT="Galatia Sil" !important]ἀπείθεια[/FONT] [FONT="Gentium" !important]apeitheia[/FONT] noun
Disobedience, willful unbelief, obstinacy.
Complete Biblical Library Greek-English Dictionary, The - The Complete Biblical Library Greek-English Dictionary – Alpha-Gamma.
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Good morning, SbG :) I did not see the original post, which is one of the reasons why I mentioned I had not read all leading up to your response. That is what came to mind, though... and the talk of Judas being saved was just last week and into the weekend, so it was recent Judas committing suicide does not equate to coming to believe in Jesus, though. Jesus said Judas was doomed to destruction. That to me makes his fate clear. People insisting he was saved strikes me as odd! Do you know that the term "son of perdition" is only used twice in the NT? The second use is by Paul. Commentators generally agree it means an anti Christ, meaning those who deny that God is come in the flesh, those opposed to God, a personification of the culmination of evil.
Judas committing suicide does not equate to coming to believe in Jesus, though. Jesus said Judas was doomed to destruction. That to me makes his fate clear. People insisting he was saved strikes me as odd! Do you know that the term "son of perdition" is only used twice in the NT? The second use is by Paul. Commentators generally agree it means an anti Christ, meaning those who deny that God is come in the flesh, those opposed to God, a personification of the culmination of evil. Sometimes I think...we are just a bunch of Marys and Marthas, not letting each other be who, and where, we are.
But there's one thing I can use to see if someone is growing, and that is if they love, don't revile back, don't trade an insult for an insult (and if they do, they apologize because the Spirit catches them in their arrogance and lack of love). Phart is pretty consistent in these things. Does Phart not have any more growing to do, any more things to have his mind renewed about, any strongholds still remaining?
Look at his fruit of the Spirit. Then treat him like a brother when you see it. Don't expect a perfection of doctrine or knowledge from him that even you don't have. From both sides of this, Phart is the one not insulting or reviling back with mean words, in fact is one of the few NOT reviling back among the most outspoken. Is his knowledge perfect? No. Is his fruit of the Spirit evident? Yes.
But there's one thing I can use to see if someone is growing, and that is if they love, don't revile back, don't trade an insult for an insult (and if they do, they apologize because the Spirit catches them in their arrogance and lack of love). Phart is pretty consistent in these things. Does Phart not have any more growing to do, any more things to have his mind renewed about, any strongholds still remaining?
Look at his fruit of the Spirit. Then treat him like a brother when you see it. Don't expect a perfection of doctrine or knowledge from him that even you don't have. From both sides of this, Phart is the one not insulting or reviling back with mean words, in fact is one of the few NOT reviling back among the most outspoken. Is his knowledge perfect? No. Is his fruit of the Spirit evident? Yes.
Those on the same side are known by their fruit. Jesus said that's how you would know them. They prove they are by:
By hatefully spouting malicious words on others.
By teaching false doctrine without scripture.
By twisting scripture by leaving out the context.
By lying.
By deceiving others.
By bearing false witness.
By twisting other's posts to accuse them.
By not arguing against each other's doctrine, being a respector of persons.
By refusing posted scripture with context, which is willful rebellion against God.
By picking pieces of text out of lexicons & posting as a whole, which is deception.
By refusing tried & true commentaries while posting unknown websites to justify themselves.
By saying they want to "discuss" the issues, then slamming the other person.
By calling people names because they can't overcome them.
By putting their "likes" on such wicked posts, thinking they are not partakers of their deeds.
By showing bad attitudes towards others.
By luring in unsuspecting members, agreeing temporarily with them, & then running them down as false teachers.
By acting like they're on the opposite side against you, arguing hatefully against you, & getting banned to prove your side right & righteous. That's hypocrisy.
By purposely scrutinizing others posts to find fault & error to attack their character & faith., & destroy them. The lawyers did this to Jesus.
You asked.
But this won't matter to you..... you'll just reject it all as some bad thing I'm doing.
By hatefully spouting malicious words on others.
By teaching false doctrine without scripture.
By twisting scripture by leaving out the context.
By lying.
By deceiving others.
By bearing false witness.
By twisting other's posts to accuse them.
By not arguing against each other's doctrine, being a respector of persons.
By refusing posted scripture with context, which is willful rebellion against God.
By picking pieces of text out of lexicons & posting as a whole, which is deception.
By refusing tried & true commentaries while posting unknown websites to justify themselves.
By saying they want to "discuss" the issues, then slamming the other person.
By calling people names because they can't overcome them.
By putting their "likes" on such wicked posts, thinking they are not partakers of their deeds.
By showing bad attitudes towards others.
By luring in unsuspecting members, agreeing temporarily with them, & then running them down as false teachers.
By acting like they're on the opposite side against you, arguing hatefully against you, & getting banned to prove your side right & righteous. That's hypocrisy.
By purposely scrutinizing others posts to find fault & error to attack their character & faith., & destroy them. The lawyers did this to Jesus.
You asked.
But this won't matter to you..... you'll just reject it all as some bad thing I'm doing.
Hi loveme1,
It says in Matthew that it would have been better if Judas had not been born at all.
“The Son of Man will go just as it is written about him. But woe to that man who betrays the Son of Man! It would be better for him if he had not been born”
Judas has remorse, but it wasn't unto repentance. In Corinthians it talks about a worldly sorrow and that's what Judas had. A worldly sorrow can bring tears, but it doesn't bring about repentance. Judas was sorry for what he did, but it wasn't the right kind of sorrow that goes and asks for forgiveness.
If Judas had godly sorrow, He would have rushed to Jesus to ask for forgiveness. He had only to join the family at the foot of the cross to confess his sins and he did not. Instead he buys a field and hangs himself.
Judas falls into the category of worldly sorrow.
It says in Matthew that it would have been better if Judas had not been born at all.
“The Son of Man will go just as it is written about him. But woe to that man who betrays the Son of Man! It would be better for him if he had not been born”
Judas has remorse, but it wasn't unto repentance. In Corinthians it talks about a worldly sorrow and that's what Judas had. A worldly sorrow can bring tears, but it doesn't bring about repentance. Judas was sorry for what he did, but it wasn't the right kind of sorrow that goes and asks for forgiveness.
If Judas had godly sorrow, He would have rushed to Jesus to ask for forgiveness. He had only to join the family at the foot of the cross to confess his sins and he did not. Instead he buys a field and hangs himself.
Judas falls into the category of worldly sorrow.
Ok, I see the confusion I caused in this....
What I meant was this...
If Jesus never knew you, it means you were not one with him and he was not one with you....I was trying to say that the word knew/know is about relationship with Jesus post salvation....and Rev 3.20 is all about relationship not about salvation....
He never knew them, because they were never in relationship with him....salvation is not relationship and if you think it is, then we have a problem....
If it is still clear as mud, let me know...I was pretty tired when I posted last night...
What I meant was this...
If Jesus never knew you, it means you were not one with him and he was not one with you....I was trying to say that the word knew/know is about relationship with Jesus post salvation....and Rev 3.20 is all about relationship not about salvation....
He never knew them, because they were never in relationship with him....salvation is not relationship and if you think it is, then we have a problem....
If it is still clear as mud, let me know...I was pretty tired when I posted last night...
There were a few recently claiming that Judas was saved, even though Jesus knew from the beginning who was going to betray Him (something else a few of them denied), and Jesus also said that Judas was not clean. Same idea, though I have not read all the posts that lead up to this one... just got home
Good morning, SbG :) I did not see the original post, which is one of the reasons why I mentioned I had not read all leading up to your response. That is what came to mind, though... and the talk of Judas being saved was just last week and into the weekend, so it was recent Judas committing suicide does not equate to coming to believe in Jesus, though. Jesus said Judas was doomed to destruction. That to me makes his fate clear. People insisting he was saved strikes me as odd! Do you know that the term "son of perdition" is only used twice in the NT? The second use is by Paul. Commentators generally agree it means an anti Christ, meaning those who deny that God is come in the flesh, those opposed to God, a personification of the culmination of evil.
Judas committing suicide does not equate to coming to believe in Jesus, though. Jesus said Judas was doomed to destruction. That to me makes his fate clear. People insisting he was saved strikes me as odd! Do you know that the term "son of perdition" is only used twice in the NT? The second use is by Paul. Commentators generally agree it means an anti Christ, meaning those who deny that God is come in the flesh, those opposed to God, a personification of the culmination of evil.
Hi Meggido...After reading 1 Corinthians 2, i learn that we have the mind of Christ, we have the Holy Spirit in us, God searches us because our spirit is connected to His, He can reveal His mysteries to us because we have the mind of Christ...We have godly wisdom, people without the Holy Spirit have their own worldly wisdom, which is foolishness, i also see that Jesus is our Wisdom before the foundations of the world, if people had understood this at the time, Jesus would not of been crucified...I will stop now because i am not really sure where i am going with this.Jesus being crucified was Gods plan to save the world from our sins, so i got something wrong in my typing, but i have kept it in to show you where i was thinking so i can be corrected...xox...
...I will stop now because i am not really sure where i am going with this.Jesus being crucified was Gods plan to save the world from our sins, so i got something wrong in my typing, but i have kept it in to show you where i was thinking so i can be corrected...xox...