Not By Works

[UnderGrace]

Do you know that adding works, or saying there is anything we can add to salvation, or that salvation is not secure in Jesus insults the Spirit of Grace and places God in our debt for our salvation?

How much severer punishment do you think he will deserve who has trampled under foot the Son of God, and has regarded as unclean the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has insulted the Spirit of grace?
Hebrews 10:29

"Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God [FONT=&quot]imputeth righteousness without works" (Romans 4:4-6). [FONT=&quot][/FONT]

[/FONT]

Hi FranC,

I will help out. Heb 10:26-27 means exactly what God says....

Heb 10:26-27,
For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

If we choose to continue in wilful known sin we are not believing Gods Word and will be lost and not saved because sin is the transgression of God's Law and the wages of sin is death (1John 3:4; Rom 6:23) Hope this helps those struggling with the verses

 

[willybob]

Ahhhh.. I get it, Christ is like a back up plan. Plan B to your plan A. Just in case.

So He sacrificed everything, bore the sin of the whole world, so He could be a backup plan for when you accidentally flip the bird to your neighbor?

He died on our behalf, not in our place...big difference

 

[FranC]

The question I have is, if the reformation killed 25% of Europe, was this a good thing or
just part of the total lostness of both sides?

Where the Anabaptists peaceful or the terrorist revolutionaries of their day?
If the apostles were not that fussed about full immersion or sprinkling, why should we be?
Are we just rebels against institutions and real study, or true followers of Christ?

Wow PJ
You're a deep thinker.
I thought I was bad.

Millions were killed due to the Reformation. We talk about it as if some doctrine or other changed.
Some ideas were posted on some Church. Like nothing really happened.

But the CC had gotten out of hand too. It was not going to change. Luther tried. He was kicked out of the CC, he didn't decide to leave.

The Apostles did not care about full immersion. They knew Jesus. They didn't knit pick like we do. They saw the big picture.

Read this...: (from the Didache, about 90 AD Teachings of the Apostles)


Chapter 7. Concerning Baptism. And concerning baptism, baptize this way:

Having first said all these things, baptize into the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, in living water.

But if you have no living water, baptize into other water; and if you cannot do so in cold water, do so in warm.

But if you have neither, pour out water three times upon the head into the name of Father and Son and Holy Spirit.

But before the baptism let the baptizer fast, and the baptized, and whoever else can; but you shall order the baptized to fast one or two days before.

We should be encouraging each other in our walk with God.
Speaking about how wonderful it is to know Him.
What He would expect from us.
How to please Him.
How to live in the Kingdom.

Instead, here we are, arguing about whether or not works are NECESSARY.
There's some writing in this document even about sin.
It does NOT resemble what is going on in this thread.

Very late.
Tomorrow.

 

[willybob]

yall know what? they can say not of works a million times over, and I think they have the persistence to do it, even in this thread mind you..However, we all are still gonna be judged by our works done in faith...

 

[Limey410v2]

He died on our behalf, not in our place...big difference

Care to elaborate?

 

[FranC]

He died on our behalf, not in our place...big difference

One day I'll start a thread on The Atonement.

We're so mixed up about so many things.
How did we get here?

 

[UnderGrace]

We/I left the Catholic Church. Praise Jesus and Amen!!!!

One day I'll start a thread on The Atonement.

We're so mixed up about so many things.
How did we get here?

 

[stonesoffire]

Maybe because some ignore the truth? Even when they ask for something and it's right there in plain sight, won't read it for some reason...and try to change the subject...?

Ya think? Maybe?

 

[heartofdavid]

One day I'll start a thread on The Atonement.

We're so mixed up about so many things.
How did we get here?

I like that subject. We are currently in ruth at our businessmens bible study.
I teach when our fearless leader is absent.

The book of ruth is the gentile bride. Redemption

 

[heartofdavid]

Oh,wait,is this a chick thread?
Me and limey are the only guys in here.

 

[FranC]

yall know what? they can say not of works a million times over, and I think they have the persistence to do it, even in this thread mind you..However, we all are still gonna be judged by our works done in faith...

John 5:28-29 New American Standard Bible (NASB)

28 Do not marvel at this; for an hour is coming, in which all who are in the tombs will hear His voice,

29 and will come forth; those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the evil deeds to a resurrection of judgment.

We will indeed be judged.

 

[FranC]

Oh,wait,is this a chick thread?
Me and limey are the only guys in here.

Well ain't you the lucky ones !!

 

[FranC]

I like that subject. We are currently in ruth at our businessmens bible study.
I teach when our fearless leader is absent.

The book of ruth is the gentile bride. Redemption

There really should be a thread on the atonement.
We could do this together.
PM me if you're interested. I'm very tired right now...

The Atonement can be understood in two different ways.
One was accepted from Jesus' Death to the year 1,000.
Then another idea came into being.

One is a penalty, Jesus took our place.
One is atonement, Jesus took away satan's power over us.

One describes God as being rather mean.
The other describes God as being a loving God.

Let me know if you're interested.
Ruth is one of my favorite books, btw.

 

[stonesoffire]

Do you know that adding works, or saying there is anything we can add to salvation, or that salvation is not secure in Jesus insults the Spirit of Grace and places God in our debt for our salvation?

How much severer punishment do you think he will deserve who has trampled under foot the Son of God, and has regarded as unclean the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has insulted the Spirit of grace?
Hebrews 10:29

"Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works" (Romans 4:4-6).

In Revelations there is a scripture that says only Jesus can open the 7 seals...so I wanted to know open what? It is the greek word biblios. Or the bible. It's sealed 7 times? The Revelation of Himself, only He can open to us.

So I remembered too the other scripture in the end...where we are warned not to add or take away anything from His revelation.

Very big mistake. I want to know more about the 7 seals, if I can find it. Haven't yet pursued that. But will.

 

[FranC]

Maybe because some ignore the truth? Even when they ask for something and it's right there in plain sight, won't read it for some reason...and try to change the subject...?

Ya think? Maybe?

2:47 a.m.
will reply to your Hebrews post Tomorrow.

 

[FranC]

In Revelations there is a scripture that says only Jesus can open the 7 seals...so I wanted to know open what? It is the greek word biblios. Or the bible. It's sealed 7 times? The Revelation of Himself, only He can open to us.

So I remembered too the other scripture in the end...where we are warned not to add or take away anything from His revelation.

Very big mistake. I want to know more about the 7 seals, if I can find it. Haven't yet pursued that. But will.

Yeah. Rev. is a great book to study.
John. On an Island. Over 90 years old.
He gets visions from God and tries to explain heavenly things.
And we think we can understand them when we have a problem with HEBREWS !

 

[Meggido]

Now I'm going to challenge my own theological thought process because this Scripture just came to my mind and I want to be intellectually honest. I'd love to hear your thoughts about this Scripture.

Here's why: We say we don't need to discuss with people they need works to be saved, which I do agree with, but Jesus says that people need to "count the cost" before they come to Him. I'd love to hear some view points on this one.

Luke 14:26-33 “If anyone comes to me and does not hate his own father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, yes, and even his own life, he cannot be my disciple. Whoever does not bear his own cross and come after me cannot be my disciple. For which of you, desiring to build a tower, does not first sit down and count the cost, whether he has enough to complete it? Otherwise, when he has laid a foundation and is not able to finish, all who see it begin to mock him, saying, ‘This man began to build and was not able to finish.’ Or what king, going out to encounter another king in war, will not sit down first and deliberate whether he is able with ten thousand to meet him who comes against him with twenty thousand? And if not, while the other is yet a great way off, he sends a delegation and asks for terms of peace. So therefore, any one of you who does not renounce all that he has cannot be my disciple"

It appears Jesus is saying don't come to Him unless you're willing to forsake everything. That does feel very works centered at first glance. I suppose a better word for it though is submission centered. We are calling Him Lord of our life. And that means we forsake our own lordship over our life for His. Still chewing on this myself.

This is about dying to yourself.....many mentally assent but never get on the cross and die and then are not raised into newness of life...If you cannot kill the old man with Christ/crucify the flesh then you will never forsake all.

 

[FranC]

Ahhhh.. I get it, Christ is like a back up plan. Plan B to your plan A. Just in case.

So He sacrificed everything, bore the sin of the whole world, so He could be a backup plan for when you accidentally flip the bird to your neighbor?

You don't understand this...
You don't understand about the atonement...

But you understand A LOT about not having to do any works because you have faith.

Interesting...

 

[Meggido]

What do I call the thief on the cross? The incredibly rare person who is physically unable to move his body in acts of righteousness because they are literally nailed down so they won't move. And a person who so many people who can move their arms and legs over a lifetime of living love to use as the reason they do not have to have works to go along with their faith.

this is just a load of bricks.....and mortar.

 

[Meggido]

ah, so define righteousness. How does one obtain it?

Romans 5.17-
[SUP]17 [/SUP]For if by the transgression of the one, death reigned through the one, much more those who receive the abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ.

2 Cor 5.21-
[SUP]21 [/SUP]He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.

Phil 3.9-

[SUP]9 [/SUP]and may be found in Him, not having a righteousness of my own derived from the Law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which comes from God on the basis of faith,