"Not by works" - false!

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Chester

Chester

Senior Member
#1,241
May 23, 2016
4,314
1,442
113
#1,241
DBurrage said:
Well Christians should keep God's commandments!
Do you confront the sins of these people?
Click to expand...
Confront sins of people: absolutely, but always in love.

The trouble I have will the statement "Christians will keep God's commandments" moves it to the Calvinistic realm of God doing everything! Christian have a choice and we need to choose to do God's commands - thus we should keep Christ's commands.

Just a personal prejudice I have - I am OK if people say Christian will keep God's commands.
 
D

DBurrage

Banned
#1,242
Apr 21, 2020
621
176
43
#1,242
Chester said:
Confront sins of people: absolutely, but always in love.

The trouble I have will the statement "Christians will keep God's commandments" moves it to the Calvinistic realm of God doing everything! Christian have a choice and we need to choose to do God's commands - thus we should keep Christ's commands.

Just a personal prejudice I have - I am OK if people say Christian will keep God's commands.
Click to expand...
Let's not turn this thread into a debate about Calvanism please.
 
D

DBurrage

Banned
#1,243
Apr 21, 2020
621
176
43
#1,243
@Fastfredy0 - relax with the X's dude, I was trying to be more lighthearted given the bitter argument that has been ongoing over the last couple of days :)
 
Fastfredy0

Fastfredy0

Banned
#1,244
May 22, 2020
403
127
43
#1,244
DBurrage said:
relax with the X's dude, I was trying to be more lighthearted given the bitter argument that has been ongoing over the last couple of days
Click to expand...
DBurrage said:
Can you not imagine yourself at the altar of a catholic 'church', fighting off the paedophile pope with a sword, while simultaneously freeing his followers from his grasp?
Click to expand...
I disagree with you statement that the pope is a pedophile. What is your evidence???? Terrible thing to call a person!
 
D

DBurrage

Banned
#1,245
Apr 21, 2020
621
176
43
#1,245
Fastfredy0 said:
I disagree with you statement that the pope is a pedophile. What is your evidence???? Terrible thing to call a person!
Click to expand...
I believe that he is a paedophile enabler.
The catholic 'church', of which he is the head, has acted to cover up child abuse within the 'church'.
 
Fastfredy0

Fastfredy0

Banned
#1,246
May 22, 2020
403
127
43
#1,246
DBurrage said:
I believe that he is a paedophile enabler.
Click to expand...
Alright, now you have called pope a) A PEDOPHILE B) A PEDOPHILE ENABLER ...

Again, what is you evidence that the pope is A PEDOPHILE.
Horrible thing to say. I assume you have evidence.

If you have no evidence ... how can the members of this forum be assured they also won't be called pedophiles ????
 
D

DBurrage

Banned
#1,247
Apr 21, 2020
621
176
43
#1,247
Fastfredy0 said:
Alright, now you have called pope a) A PEDOPHILE B) A PEDOPHILE ENABLER ...

Again, what is you evidence that the pope is A PEDOPHILE.
Horrible thing to say. I assume you have evidence.

If you have no evidence ... how can the members of this forum be assured they also won't be called pedophiles ????
Click to expand...
I take it back that the pope is a paedophile, but I stand by the pope being a paedophile enabler for the reasons mentioned above.
 
mailmandan

mailmandan

Senior Member
#1,249
Apr 7, 2014
25,460
13,398
113
58
#1,249
DBurrage said:
Well I'm afraid I don't believe that due to my understanding of Hebrews 10:26, which basically says that Christians cannot behave as they please.
Click to expand...
Who said that those who willfully (habitually, bent of life, a matter of practice) sin after receiving the knowledge of the truth in Hebrews 10:26 were Christians? They drew back to perdition and did not believe to the saving of the soul. (Hebrews 10:39) Christians believe to the saving of the soul. There are genuine Christians and there are "nominal" Christians. There are genuine believers and there are make believers.
 
preacher4truth

preacher4truth

Senior Member
#1,250
Dec 28, 2016
9,171
2,718
113
#1,250
Chester said:
I know some Christians who don't keep God's commands -
Click to expand...
You don't know who and who isn't a true Christian. You may know some professing Christians.

Jesus says his people keep his commands. Of course we must define "keep" but at the same time Jesus' word contradicts your experience. I'll go with Jesus on this one, if you don't mind. Or, even if you do. :)

but of course I am not a Calvinist! o_O:p
Click to expand...
Because you don't use proper context in interpretation. ;) (y)
 
D

DBurrage

Banned
#1,251
Apr 21, 2020
621
176
43
#1,251
mailmandan said:
Who said that those who willfully sinned after receiving the knowledge of the truth in Hebrews 10:26 were Christians? They drew back to perdition and did not believe to the saving of the soul. (Hebrews 10:39) Christians believe to the saving of the soul. There are genuine Christians and there are "nominal" Christians. There are genuine believers and there are make believers.
Click to expand...
This argument relies on the assumption that Christians who sin are/were never REALLY Christians.

What about people who were devout Christians, but who leave the faith?
Are you saying they were never REALLY Christians?

What about homosexuals who say they follow Christ?
Are they REALLY Christians?
 
mailmandan

mailmandan

Senior Member
#1,252
Apr 7, 2014
25,460
13,398
113
58
#1,252
DBurrage said:
This argument relies on the assumption that Christians who sin are/were never REALLY Christians.

What about people who were devout Christians, but who leave the faith?
Are you saying they were never REALLY Christians?

What about homosexuals who say they follow Christ?
Are they REALLY Christians?
Click to expand...
Hebrews 10:39 - But WE are not OF THOSE who draw back to perdition, BUT OF THOSE who believe to the saving of the soul. Those who draw back to perdition do not believe to the saving of the soul and those who believe to the saving of the soul do not draw back to perdition.

As I said before. There are genuine Christians and there are "nominal" Christians. There are genuine believers and there are make believers. Anyone can SAY they follow Christ, but that doesn't make them a Christian/genuine believer.
 
D

DBurrage

Banned
#1,253
Apr 21, 2020
621
176
43
#1,253
As an aside, I don't understand why some people are choosing to throw around the word "Calvinist" as if it's a derogatory term.

I don't fully understand Calvinism as I've only recently came across this word on this forum, but why mock other's understanding of scripture?
 
preacher4truth

preacher4truth

Senior Member
#1,254
Dec 28, 2016
9,171
2,718
113
#1,254
mailmandan said:
As I said before. There are genuine Christians and there are "nominal" Christians. There are genuine believers and there are make believers. Anyone can SAY they follow Christ, but that doesn't make them a Christian/genuine believer.
Click to expand...
Do you mean by "follow" they obey Jesus commands?
 
mailmandan

mailmandan

Senior Member
#1,255
Apr 7, 2014
25,460
13,398
113
58
#1,255
preacher4truth said:
Do you mean by "follow" they obey Jesus commands?
Click to expand...
Many people who are religious, but not right with God (through faith in Jesus Christ) set out to "follow" Christ (on their terms and not His) and think they are obeying the commands of Jesus. Sadly, many people trust in works for salvation and NOT IN CHRIST ALONE. (Matthew 7:21-23)
 
preacher4truth

preacher4truth

Senior Member
#1,256
Dec 28, 2016
9,171
2,718
113
#1,256
DBurrage said:
As an aside, I don't understand why some people are choosing to throw around the word "Calvinist" as if it's a derogatory term.

I don't fully understand Calvinism as I've only recently came across this word on this forum, but why mock other's understanding of scripture?
Click to expand...
One is a coward who has me on ignore so he can in safely sling mud. Another is a blowhard who lives up north of here. Another is back with a new moniker, but at the same time is as spiteful and divisive as ever. The fruit they all bear is similar, perpetual.

To ridicule is all they can do, they can't offer up any contextual exegesis to refute Reformed doctrine. :)

That said, they ought be more concerned about their fruit, than what my Biblical stance is.
 
preacher4truth

preacher4truth

Senior Member
#1,257
Dec 28, 2016
9,171
2,718
113
#1,257
mailmandan said:
Many people who are religious, but not right with God (through faith in Jesus Christ) set out to "follow" Christ (on their terms and not His) and think they are obeying the commands of Jesus. Sadly, many people trust in works for salvation and NOT IN CHRIST ALONE. (Matthew 7:21-23)
Click to expand...
But you still haven't answered my question.
 
Fastfredy0

Fastfredy0

Banned
#1,258
May 22, 2020
403
127
43
#1,258
mailmandan

mailmandan

Senior Member
#1,259
Apr 7, 2014
25,460
13,398
113
58
#1,259
preacher4truth said:
Do you mean by "follow" they obey Jesus commands?
Click to expand...
There are numerous people in various false religions and cults (that label these false religions and cults as Christian) who sincerely believe they are following Jesus by obeying His commands, yet are merely following false teachings of their church.
 
D

DBurrage

Banned
#1,260
Apr 21, 2020
621
176
43
#1,260
preacher4truth said:
One is a coward who has me on ignore so he can in safely sling mud. Another is a blowhard who lives up north of here. Another is back with a new moniker, but at the same time is as spiteful and divisive as ever. The fruit they all bear is similar, perpetual.

To ridicule is all they can do, they can't offer up any contextual exegesis to refute Reformed doctrine. :)

That said, they ought be more concerned about their fruit, than what my Biblical stance is.
Click to expand...
I have reached a point of agreement with @eternally-gratefull but some of the others just seem up for argument.

They go round in circles.
They accuse anyone who suggests that we should obey God's commandments as preaching a 'salvation by works' doctrine.
But when you ask them directly if they believe we should keep God's commandments, they sidestep the question.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.