"no one can come to me unless it is granted by the Father.” The Beginning.

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throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
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#21
Hi throughfaith,

Does God know who will be saved ?
Yes i know the syllogism . We start with the philosophy of Gods knowledge and from here we finally arrive at ....conclusions without any verse that says so .
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
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#22
No, it's the facts from God Himself.
Satan could not kill Job because of Favor, in this case [Hedge]. Anyone accepting Christ has this Hedge immediately. That is just one Biblical example of God's Favor. I follow no one single person from the 3rd century on. The Word of God is my answers and i just type what can be found in scripture mixed with how my brain processes it to a understandable viewpoint.
This happened to Job . What has that got to do with us today in 2021?
 

phil36

Senior Member
Feb 12, 2009
8,345
2,157
113
#23
Yes i know the syllogism . We start with the philosophy of Gods knowledge and from here we finally arrive at ....conclusions without any verse that says so .

On the contrary the whole bible speaks of it.
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
1,593
113
#24
'No one can come to the Father unless he effectually caused ' . This is what is imagined when people read those verses .
 
Oct 19, 2020
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#25
This happened to Job . What has that got to do with us today in 2021?
You don't believe many of the accidents or traumas that could have taken place in your life but did not was not God's Favor and Hedge of Protection over you, a Child of His who did not reject Him?
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
1,593
113
#26
On the contrary the whole bible speaks of it.
' speaks of it ' ? Did you start with the thought first " God knows everything, He knows who will be saved and who will not ...hmmm let's see if we can find verses to support this idea "
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
1,593
113
#27
You don't believe many of the accidents or traumas that could have taken place in your life but did not was not God's Favor and Hedge of Protection over you, a Child of His who did not reject Him?
No i believe the bible doesn't say this .
 

phil36

Senior Member
Feb 12, 2009
8,345
2,157
113
#28
'No one can come to the Father unless he effectually caused ' . This is what is imagined when people read those verses .
Hi throughfaith,

Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.

So then we have to ask the question what does that mean?

What does Jesus mean I am the way?

What does Jesus mean I am the truth and the life?

What does Jesus mean by you can't come to the Father except through me.

What does Jesus mean by through me?


And of course this relates to salvation... How do men come to Jesus?


Part of this is election...for the bible tells us so!

Scripture interprets scripture.
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
1,593
113
#29
Hi throughfaith,

Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.

So then we have to ask the question what does that mean?

What does Jesus mean I am the way?

What does Jesus mean I am the truth and the life?

What does Jesus mean by you can't come to the Father except through me.

What does Jesus mean by through me?


And of course this relates to salvation... How do men come to Jesus?


Part of this is election...for the bible tells us so!

Scripture interprets scripture.
It means as it says . The ' way ' is through Jesus. We have a step by step instruction on how this happens. Eph 1.12 -14 is a good start .
 
Oct 19, 2020
723
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#30
No i believe the bible doesn't say this .
Oh, so even though we have a list at what defines [Tragedies] like hurricane, volcano, middle of war zone, murder, covid.....unless it says body covered in boils or lost his family and homes and property like the Bible, a tragedy diverted then is not a Favor from God.

In your personal life with friends and family and those you meet, how many has your example in life and of God caused others to want the [same] God as you?
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
1,593
113
#31
Hi throughfaith,

Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.

So then we have to ask the question what does that mean?

What does Jesus mean I am the way?

What does Jesus mean I am the truth and the life?

What does Jesus mean by you can't come to the Father except through me.

What does Jesus mean by through me?


And of course this relates to salvation... How do men come to Jesus?


Part of this is election...for the bible tells us so!

Scripture interprets scripture.
John 16:8

“And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:”
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
1,593
113
#32
Oh, so even though we have a list at what defines [Tragedies] like hurricane, volcano, middle of war zone, murder, covid.....unless it says body covered in boils or lost his family and homes and property like the Bible, a tragedy diverted then is not a Favor from God.

In your personal life with friends and family and those you meet, how many has your example in life and of God caused others to want the [same] God as you?
This is subjective .
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
13,771
113
#34
Does God know who will be saved ?
Of course God knows who will be saved. Indeed He knew this from before the foundation of the world. But that does not mean that He predetermined who would be saved. However, what He did predetermine was that the ones who would be saved would also be perfected and glorified, thus "conformed to the image of His Son" (Rom 8:29,30).
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
1,593
113
#35
John 6
45It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath HEARD , and hath LEARNED of the Father, cometh unto me.

Those ( upon the arrival of Jesus on the scene ) ' sheep ' ( jews ) should have recognised the teachings of Jesus. There isn't a gentile in ear shot of this . This is before the cross.
 
Aug 14, 2019
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#36
This (and similar verses as in the title) should never be taken out of context in order to distort the Gospel. Therefore we must first go to the Gospel itself and then see how these fit. In another thread, a brother posted John 3:16-21. So we should go from John 3:15 to 3:21 (plus verses 35 & 36):

JOHN 3: THE GOSPEL ACCORDING TO THE LORD JESUS CHRIST

THE BRAZEN SERPENT WAS A TYPE OF CHRIST
14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:

"WHOSOEVER" MEANS ANYONE AND EVERYONE, AND INCLUDES ALL
15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

GOD'S LOVE EXCLUDES NO ONE
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

GOD'S LOVE INCLUDES THE WHOLE HUMAN RACE
17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

FAITH IN CHRIST IS ABSOLUTELY ESSENTIAL
18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

SOME MEN CHOOSE DARKNESS OVER LIGHT
19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

EVILDOERS HATE THE LIGHT OF CHRIST AND OF THE GOSPEL
20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.

THOSE THAT CHOOSE TRUTH COME TO CHRIST
21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God...

GOD THE FATHER HAS GIVEN CHRIST ALL AUTHORITY IN HEAVEN AND ON EARTH
35 The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand.

THOSE WHO BELIEVE ON CHRIST RECEIVE ETERNAL LIFE
36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

In view of this passage, the ones who hate the light of Christ and of the Gospel are barred from coming to Christ. Thus the Father grants that only those who believe and obey the Gospel will come to Christ and receive eternal life.
How do they believe and obey the Gospel before they come to Christ?
 

phil36

Senior Member
Feb 12, 2009
8,345
2,157
113
#38
How do they believe and obey the Gospel before they come to Christ?

faith comes by hearing, and hearing from the Word of God." Romans 10:17

Having faith itself is obedience, its not secondary, as all men are commanded to believe.

"What God requires of us he himself works in us, or it is not done. He that commands faith, holiness, and love, creates them by the power of his grace..." - Matthew Henry