No more of works?
- Thread starter John146
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
It's merely talking about outward conformity to the law, not inward. It is not enough to keep the letter of the law outwardly. The internal motivation must also accompany it. So they were blameless before the law. That made them good Jews. But they weren't blameless before God. If they were
blameless before God, why the sacrifices? Remember, this is the same Zacharias who was struck dumb.
There is, indeed, a righteousness that comes from keeping the law both inwardly and outwardly. But, as James makes clear, offending in 1 point is to offend in all. This is because while it is possible to be forgiven of our sin, we can never go back and perform the righteousness for our past misdeeds.
As sinners we need 2 things from Christ:
1. His atoning death that our sins are blotted out, and
2. His righteousness imputed to us so that the righteousness demanded by the law not given when we sinned is given.
This is true regardless of the covenant one is under. That's why God not only sacrificed an animal for Adam and Eve, but also clothed them.
blameless before God, why the sacrifices? Remember, this is the same Zacharias who was struck dumb.
There is, indeed, a righteousness that comes from keeping the law both inwardly and outwardly. But, as James makes clear, offending in 1 point is to offend in all. This is because while it is possible to be forgiven of our sin, we can never go back and perform the righteousness for our past misdeeds.
As sinners we need 2 things from Christ:
1. His atoning death that our sins are blotted out, and
2. His righteousness imputed to us so that the righteousness demanded by the law not given when we sinned is given.
This is true regardless of the covenant one is under. That's why God not only sacrificed an animal for Adam and Eve, but also clothed them.
Abraham's bosom is analogist of resting in God's care. As Abraham is the personification of faith, which the hub of resides in his bosom. The rick man died faithless (which is indeed poverty regarding any true riches) hence his request imploring that Lazarus be sent back to preach to his faithless brothers. Lazarus died with the only real treasure, faith.
Have you ever read the law of the lepers in Moses law this is how the works of the law speak of lepers it’s one of the longest chapters in the law so I’ll just show a few verses tommake the point. this is how the worlds of the law compare to the Word of faith
“And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, This shall be the law of the leper in the day of his cleansing: He shall be brought unto the priest: and the priest shall go forth out of the camp; and the priest shall look, and, behold, if the plague of leprosy be healed in the leper; then shall the priest command to take for him that is to be cleansed two birds alive and clean, and cedar wood, and scarlet, and hyssop: and the priest shall command that one of the birds be killed in an earthen vessel over running water: as for the living bird, he shall take it, and the cedar wood, and the scarlet, and the hyssop, and shall dip them and the living bird in the blood of the bird that was killed over the running water: and he shall sprinkle upon him that is to be cleansed from the leprosy seven times, and shall pronounce him clean, and shall let the living bird loose into the open field. And he that is to be cleansed shall wash his clothes, and shave off all his hair, and wash himself in water, that he may be clean: and after that he shall come into the camp, and shall tarry abroad out of his tent seven days. But it shall be on the seventh day, that he shall shave all his hair off his head and his beard and his eyebrows, even all his hair he shall shave off: and he shall wash his clothes, also he shall wash his flesh in water, and he shall be clean. And on the eighth day he shall take two he lambs without blemish, and one ewe lamb of the first year without blemish, and three tenth deals of fine flour for a meat offering, mingled with oil, and one log of oil. And if he be poor, and cannot get so much; then he shall take one lamb for a trespass offering to be waved, to make an atonement for him, and one tenth deal of fine flour mingled with oil for a meat offering, and a log of oil; and two turtledoves, or two young pigeons, such as he is able to get; and the one shall be a sin offering, and the other a burnt offering. And he shall bring them on the eighth day for his cleansing unto the priest, unto the door of the tabernacle of the congregation, before the LORD. to teach when it is unclean, and when it is clean: this is the law of leprosy.”
Leviticus 14:1-10, 21-23, 57 KJV
again this is just a short sample of what had to be tediously done and it might not work according to the law but there’s like fifty things they had to do ritually to have a chance of cleansing lepracy
now the difference in the gospel and faith and how a leper is cleansed
“And, behold, there came a leper and worshipped him, saying, Lord, if thou wilt, thou canst make me clean.
And Jesus put forth his hand, and touched him, saying, I will; be thou clean. And immediately his leprosy was cleansed.”
Matthew 8:2-3 KJV
The one in the gospel wasn’t cleansed by the works of the law but by the faith of Jesus Christ hearing and knowing his word that said “ I know you can do this if you will lord Jesus “ and the answer that said “ I’m willing be ye clean “
There was no hundred ordinances and ritualistic works required he wasn’t cleansed by works but Jesus had mercy on him and he had faith in Jesus
“Not by works “ doesn’t mean our deeds don’t apply but it’s just saying the many works of the law aren’t what saves anyone but instead it’s Gods grace and thier faith in him meaning they hear and believe his word knowing who’s word it is
“And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, This shall be the law of the leper in the day of his cleansing: He shall be brought unto the priest: and the priest shall go forth out of the camp; and the priest shall look, and, behold, if the plague of leprosy be healed in the leper; then shall the priest command to take for him that is to be cleansed two birds alive and clean, and cedar wood, and scarlet, and hyssop: and the priest shall command that one of the birds be killed in an earthen vessel over running water: as for the living bird, he shall take it, and the cedar wood, and the scarlet, and the hyssop, and shall dip them and the living bird in the blood of the bird that was killed over the running water: and he shall sprinkle upon him that is to be cleansed from the leprosy seven times, and shall pronounce him clean, and shall let the living bird loose into the open field. And he that is to be cleansed shall wash his clothes, and shave off all his hair, and wash himself in water, that he may be clean: and after that he shall come into the camp, and shall tarry abroad out of his tent seven days. But it shall be on the seventh day, that he shall shave all his hair off his head and his beard and his eyebrows, even all his hair he shall shave off: and he shall wash his clothes, also he shall wash his flesh in water, and he shall be clean. And on the eighth day he shall take two he lambs without blemish, and one ewe lamb of the first year without blemish, and three tenth deals of fine flour for a meat offering, mingled with oil, and one log of oil. And if he be poor, and cannot get so much; then he shall take one lamb for a trespass offering to be waved, to make an atonement for him, and one tenth deal of fine flour mingled with oil for a meat offering, and a log of oil; and two turtledoves, or two young pigeons, such as he is able to get; and the one shall be a sin offering, and the other a burnt offering. And he shall bring them on the eighth day for his cleansing unto the priest, unto the door of the tabernacle of the congregation, before the LORD. to teach when it is unclean, and when it is clean: this is the law of leprosy.”
Leviticus 14:1-10, 21-23, 57 KJV
again this is just a short sample of what had to be tediously done and it might not work according to the law but there’s like fifty things they had to do ritually to have a chance of cleansing lepracy
now the difference in the gospel and faith and how a leper is cleansed
“And, behold, there came a leper and worshipped him, saying, Lord, if thou wilt, thou canst make me clean.
And Jesus put forth his hand, and touched him, saying, I will; be thou clean. And immediately his leprosy was cleansed.”
Matthew 8:2-3 KJV
The one in the gospel wasn’t cleansed by the works of the law but by the faith of Jesus Christ hearing and knowing his word that said “ I know you can do this if you will lord Jesus “ and the answer that said “ I’m willing be ye clean “
There was no hundred ordinances and ritualistic works required he wasn’t cleansed by works but Jesus had mercy on him and he had faith in Jesus
“Not by works “ doesn’t mean our deeds don’t apply but it’s just saying the many works of the law aren’t what saves anyone but instead it’s Gods grace and thier faith in him meaning they hear and believe his word knowing who’s word it is
-
2
- Show all
So, Paul's statement implicitly declares that "It is now more of works now than it was then, and even though they were given the opportunity to prove their righteousness by works, no one obtained righteousness by works then either. The righteous have always and will always obtain it by faith."
-
1
- Show all
“But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness. Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law.
For they stumbled at that stumblingstone; as it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: And whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.”
Romans 9:31-33 KJV
For they stumbled at that stumblingstone; as it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: And whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.”
Romans 9:31-33 KJV
-
1
- Show all
“and Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took him.”
Genesis 5:24 KJV
“By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.”
Hebrews 11:5 KJV
“And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven.”
Matthew 8:11 KJV
Genesis 5:24 KJV
“By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.”
Hebrews 11:5 KJV
“And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven.”
Matthew 8:11 KJV
yeah Christ was always there though with them
“Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea; and were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea; and did all eat the same spiritual meat; and did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ. But with many of them God was not well pleased: for they were overthrown in the wilderness. Now these things were our examples, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted.”
1 Corinthians 10:1-6 KJV
what I was saying brother is the law can’t save anyone it’s not made to do that Jesus is the savior . In the law the levites had to keep all these many many tedious ordinances ceremonial things washings and rituals in order for anything to happen . Faith isnt like that faith is based solely and only on what Jesus said
Like this is a word designed of and by and for faith
“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;
but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
Mark 16:15-16 KJV
see how Jesus is giving an instruction and then assuring of a result if it’s believed d one if itnisnt ? In the Bible there are words of faith like that but then there’s the law
“For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.
But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith. And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.”
Galatians 3:10-12 KJV
The law was never meant to give faith and save us what I was saying the New Testament is
“Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea; and were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea; and did all eat the same spiritual meat; and did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ. But with many of them God was not well pleased: for they were overthrown in the wilderness. Now these things were our examples, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted.”
1 Corinthians 10:1-6 KJV
what I was saying brother is the law can’t save anyone it’s not made to do that Jesus is the savior . In the law the levites had to keep all these many many tedious ordinances ceremonial things washings and rituals in order for anything to happen . Faith isnt like that faith is based solely and only on what Jesus said
Like this is a word designed of and by and for faith
“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;
but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
Mark 16:15-16 KJV
see how Jesus is giving an instruction and then assuring of a result if it’s believed d one if itnisnt ? In the Bible there are words of faith like that but then there’s the law
“For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.
But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith. And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.”
Galatians 3:10-12 KJV
The law was never meant to give faith and save us what I was saying the New Testament is
-
1
- Show all
Faith requires One with absolute knowledge of it's presence. And although there are many that pretend to have absolute knowledge of all things, there is only One Who actually does. Take for example the rich young ruler who Jesus baited into saying, "I've kept all of these since my youth," but went away sad when Jesus exampled his idols, tho this is exactly why Jesus initially asked him, "Why do you call me good (that is, to call Me good is to call Me God but yet, you have idols before Me)?"
Indeed brother I was never disagreeing with you just sharing the thought of how the law for anything to happen there was long lists of rituals they had to do perfectly when the Bible talks about “not by works “ it’s referencing the difference in the law of works and law of faith
“Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works?
Nay: but by the law of faith.”
Romans 3:27 KJV
Jesus just spoke things he had no rituals he needed to perform nonordinances he kept he just spoke forth Gods word of power and assurance spoke forth salvation. I was just saying there’s a difference in faith and the law of works but our deeds whether good or evil those aren’t the works referenced but the works and rituals of the law are no longer needed or useful
If you look at the law of Moses we see the law of works made for this purpose not to save or justify but
“Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. ( that can’t save )
Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.”
Romans 3:19-20 KJV
This could never save sinners only condemn them but all of us need to come to the point of knowing we’re sinners and lost without Jesus so the law is also necassary and needed to preclude the revelation of the gospel sent to then save those convicted sinners
“Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works?
Nay: but by the law of faith.”
Romans 3:27 KJV
Jesus just spoke things he had no rituals he needed to perform nonordinances he kept he just spoke forth Gods word of power and assurance spoke forth salvation. I was just saying there’s a difference in faith and the law of works but our deeds whether good or evil those aren’t the works referenced but the works and rituals of the law are no longer needed or useful
If you look at the law of Moses we see the law of works made for this purpose not to save or justify but
“Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. ( that can’t save )
Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.”
Romans 3:19-20 KJV
This could never save sinners only condemn them but all of us need to come to the point of knowing we’re sinners and lost without Jesus so the law is also necassary and needed to preclude the revelation of the gospel sent to then save those convicted sinners
-
1
- Show all
