No Eternal Security = No Salvation?

[Chester]

Yeah. That's not what judging is. Judging would be if I said" those who don't believe in eternal security are lost, wouldn't you agree?"

For the 3rd time now, I DON'T KNOW the answer. That's why I wanted to hear others opinion on it.

That you don't know the answer to the question shows ignorance of what Scripture says about salvation:

Salvation is by the grace of God through faith in His Son Jesus Christ (believing in His death/blood and in His resurrection).

Salvation is not by believing in OSAS or by not believing in OSAS.

Are there people who claim Christianity and say they do not believe in OSAS who are going to hell? Of course
Are there people who claim Christianity and say they do believe in OSAS who are going to hell? Of course

But the reason they are going to hell is not because of belief in a doctrine but because of not believing in Jesus Christ.

 

[preston39]

Jesus tells us we are secure in Him...Those who do not have security in Chris are lukewarm , I heard once that the devil owns the fence , Jesus will spit them out from His mouth ...How can someone be saved by Gods grace and not believe they are saved for eternal , I just do not get it...xox...

R...,
We will not be ..."saved "...until G-d passes judgement on us after physical death. Some have the cart before the horse.
Remember G-d's plan includes passing judgement on us for eternal salvation. I will not try to preempt G-d's stated plan.
Why would anyone try to..... except to try and justify ....OSAS.

 

[preston39]

That you don't know the answer to the question shows ignorance of what Scripture says about salvation:

Salvation is by the grace of God through faith in His Son Jesus Christ (believing in His death/blood and in His resurrection).

Salvation is not by believing in OSAS or by not believing in OSAS.

Are there people who claim Christianity and say they do not believe in OSAS who are going to hell? Of course
Are there people who claim Christianity and say they do believe in OSAS who are going to hell? Of course

But the reason they are going to hell is not because of belief in a doctrine but because of not believing in Jesus Christ.

C...,

You almost captured the point completely...except;
You did not give G-d His authority to judge us to be saved with eternal salvation. We can say we are saved, we have eternal salvation, etc., but it won't happen until G-d says I am saved ...upon His judgement.

 

[Chester]

I am really quite puzzled and shocked by this discussion on this thread. To make belief in a doctrine the basis of salvation is against the clear teaching of Scripture. To even ask the question show profound ignorance of what the Bible says about salvation . . .

The thread asks this question:
So my question is does thinking you can lose your Salvation equate to NOT being saved?

If the answer to this question is "yes" then all of the people in the following denominations are going to hell (unless they disagree with the doctrinal teaching of their church):

United Methodist
Church of the Nazarene
Pentecostal and Charismatic (most)
(including Church of God and Assemblies of God)
Freewill Baptist
Wesleyan Churches
Church of the Brethren and Grace Brethren
Mennonite and Amish Churches
Wesleyan churches
Anglican/Episcopal Churches
Quakers
Calvary Chapels
and others . . .

AlL THESE GOING TO HELL? (This is the question of this thread)

In addition it might be of interest that these men would also be in hell:
Billy Sunday, Billy Graham, John Wesley - to name just a few . . . and Chester also . . .

 

[BaptistBibleBeliever]

>>>Billy Sunday, Billy Graham, John Wesley <<<

Salvation is a personal relationship with Jesus Christ . . . not an ecclesiastical endowment.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Jude 1:

24 Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,

25 To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I trust in Jesus Christ and his death and resurrection for my salvation and now because I do not believe in the doctrine of "eternal security" I am told on this forum that I do not trust in the blood, that I lack faith in God, and that Jesus will spit me out of His mouth.

Nevertheless I know who I have believed and I am persuaded that He is able and will keep me safe and secure because of the blood sacrifice of His Son. I believe! I believe! And because of Jesus Christ I am secure in Him!

As she asked, how can you say you trust GOD, when yu do not believe GOD will complete what he started in you as he promised.

you can say you do, maybe even convince yourself? But people it makes no sense.

 

[mailmandan]

C...,

You almost captured the point completely...except;
You did not give G-d His authority to judge us to be saved with eternal salvation. We can say we are saved, we have eternal salvation, etc., but it won't happen until G-d says I am saved ...upon His judgement.

John 5:24 - Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life.

1 John 5:11 - And this is the testimony: that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. 12 He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life. 13 These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life, and that you may continue to believe in the name of the Son of God.

 

[wolfwint]

This is a sincere question to mostly those who already believe they are eternally secure (OSAS), and cannot lose their Salvation because Jesus is the One who gave it to them and keeps it secure.

I know there are umpteen OSAS threads, and that can certainly and most likely will be discussed here as EVERY thread eventually boils down to that.

But what I'm asking is are those that don't believe in eternal security saved? I honestly don't know, but would like to hear your thoughts on this issue. At one time I thought you COULD lose your Salvation. I knew who Jesus is (God in the flesh) and what He has done (die to pay for our sin and resurrected to life after 3 days) but also thought that I could lose that Salvation for "willing sin" or disobedience in not totally following Him.

Others here believe they could lose their Salvation for additional reasons. So my question is does thinking you can lose your Salvation equate to NOT being saved?

May God Bless you all!

Well PennEd, I suppose nobody will enter heaven against bis will. On the other Side would I say that nobody is holy enough to enter heaven, without the grace act of our saviour. I belive he saved me for all time, because he gave me the Power to trust him. During my christian life i did some sin willingly. Always he led me back, so that I Repeat and asked for forgiveness. In the Case I sin in the evening without asking for forgiveness and die in the night. I believe I still will be saved.

 

[preston39]

Do not confuse justification and positional sanctification with ongoing sanctification in our daily lives......any salvation you may possess is not based upon your performance, but rather on Christ and his work, power, promises and faith!

d...,
I am not sure you mean to say what you have said here;
Christ is not charged with ....maintaining our righteous status......we are.... and we do that by following G-d's commandments.

 

[preston39]

There is ONLY one day that will determine who is Saved and who is NOT Saved, and that is the Day of the Lord, when He Returns to the Earth to set up His Kingdom, and become King of Kings of the Earth.

Know you not that it is written, He that endures to the end shall be Saved? Know you not that the Apostle Paul wrote, that he is in a race, not that he has finished it yet?

i feel in my heart that i am SAVED today, does that mean i can't be blotted out of the Book of Life? NO! i believe with all my heart that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, died, and rose again, paid the penalties for my sins, and has forgiven me. Tomorrow i may decide to deny Jesus. i believe in Jesus today, but tomorrow i may hate someone, tomorrow i may not forgive someone EVER, two things that Scriptures teach will prevent me from going to Heaven. If i do not forgive men their trespasses, neither will i be forgiven of mine, is that not written? So today i am Saved, but i will have to endure to the end, in order to be SAVED, if i fail to endure to the end, then my name will have been blotted out of the book of Life, on that day when the Books are opened and whosoever name is written in the Book of Life, ON THAT DAY, shall be SAVED, whether they be dead in the graves, or alive on the Earth.

So this generation can make themselves FEEL better about themselves if they want to, by claiming they are already SAVED and nothing they can do will ever change that, (much weeping and gnashing from these same folks, so sad) But here is the TRUTH and Scriptures backs it up. There is ONLY ONE DAY that is Judgement Day, that will determine who is and who is not SAVED. That DAY is NOT today.

You may be walking in the light today, but walking in darkness next week.

Eph_5:8 For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light:

Eph_5:11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.

1Jn_1:6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:

1Jn_2:9 He that saith he is in the light, and hateth his brother, is in darkness even until now.

1Jn_2:11 But he that hateth his brother is in darkness, and walketh in darkness, and knoweth not whither he goeth, because that darkness hath blinded his eyes.

1Jn_1:7 But if (Conditional) we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin. . .. . . . .

When does His Blood cleanse us from All sin? When we walk in the Light and NOT in darkness. Woe to them who claim to be walking in the light, but walk in darkness, thinking that His Blood still cleanseth them. This generation needs to wake up from their sleeping, give up your life, start living a life for Jesus Christ and not for your own selves. Your Lord and Savior gave up His life for you, should you not be willing to give up that sin for Him? Give up that darkness for Him? Start walking in the light, and not that darkness that you do?^i^††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ ††† DiscipleDave

D...,
Clearly summarized and consistent with scriptures. Just an added comment;

Being ..."born again" .....is not the same as ..."saved".

We can repent, be baptized and live a righteous life, that is ...born again.....at judgement G-d determines who is saved.

This is part of the confused state the OSAS believer is in.

 

[preston39]

....timed out.....

... bless them for proper understanding.

 

[Hevosmies]

D...,

We can repent, be baptized and live a righteous life, that is ...born again.....at judgement G-d determines who is saved.

If God only determines who is saved when we pass to the other side, how come the scriptures say we "have" present eternal life? And are "saved" ?

Also could you please participate in my thread about "Is baptism required for salvation" I made it specifically for you and I to discuss teh issue, could you refute the points I made or interact with it in some way? The thread is HERE

 

[Rosemaryx]

R...,

Hi...thanks for the question.
It has to do with the most high respect and reverence for G-d.
Best explained here;


"Why do we leave out the "o" G-d?

A Note About the Spelling of G-d's Name

Why do we leave out the "o" when referring to G-d? According to Hebrew tradition we do not write out the Creator's name in any language, unless as part of a printed book which we know will be preserved with dignity and treated as holy. Refraining from writing out His name is a sign of reverence and awe for the Creator. If this name were to be written out and then, the paper on which it was written would become lost or destroyed, or even if it was brought into an unclean place, this would be showing disrespect and it would be a desecration of His name."

Hope this helps.

Thank you for explaining Preston...xox...

 

[NayborBear]

Yes it is you, The fact you think you can meet some requirement shows you do not understand the gospel.
So I will just wish you good luck good luck trying to work to earn your salvation. Me? I will continue t trust in the blood of christ.

I am not condemning you, as you say you believe and have accepted Christ as your High Priest and Kinsmen Redeemer! And, I believe that you have!

What I am not buying is your not believing that which is clearly stated in the Bible concerning those whom God has MADE to believe a lie!

Which gives me cause in considering that in your mind and belief NO ONE has been given over to strong delusion!

And EVERYONE who DOESN'T believe as YOU do, are either A) Deluded themselves, or B) Going around preaching a FALSE Gospel!

This is not a healthy way of furthering ones' own Spiritual Integrity, or "Sanctification!"

Not saying ANYWISE, EG, you are not saved!

But, I do say, you are placing UNDUE BURDENS upon those who "hear a call", that is (how can I say), "higher", then what you "hear!"

As if you are saying that "What I believe?"...."Is WELL ENOUGH!" And, indeed! That which you believe may well be what is good enough!....For YOU!....And, those "like" you.

The "truth" of the matter is one may not go UNTO the Father, but by "way" of the Sheeps Gate!
Another "truth!" One does NOT proceed UNTO the Father, without FIRST "picking up ones' own cross!" For this is the "where" the "furthering of Spiritual Integrity, or sanctification of the Spirit" is done!

What I see, is you going unto the Father, IN Christ, unto which you were forgiven, and sins remitted, and then beating your head against a wall, til you are senseless! And, then proclaiming that is as far as EVERYONE needs go! Never "daring" in proceeding onwards, to the Father, and places where God's Grace is not as abundant!
Let me ask you this, if I may. Just WHERE do you think one goes back to, when God tempts one, anyways? When, after all God Said He would NEVER tempt one MORE then they could endure, or leave them NO way out!

 

[posthuman]

If God only determines who is saved when we pass to the other side, how come the scriptures say we "have" present eternal life? And are "saved" ?

mayhap because, put John 17:3 together with Galatians 4:9 & 1 Corinthians 13:12 ?

• eternal life = to know Him
• we have come to know/to be known by Him = we have been saved
• now we know in part = we are saved
• then we shall know in full = we shall be saved

?

 

[preston39]

If God only determines who is saved... /QUOTE]


H....,

Please get me past this first...pray tell who else would possess such authority?

 

[Hevosmies]

No i will not play this game, answer my questions please sir. Of course God has control over everything, you know what I meant by that. You are avoiding my questions.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I am not condemning you, as you say you believe and have accepted Christ as your High Priest and Kinsmen Redeemer! And, I believe that you have!

What I am not buying is your not believing that which is clearly stated in the Bible concerning those whom God has MADE to believe a lie!

Which gives me cause in considering that in your mind and belief NO ONE has been given over to strong delusion!

And EVERYONE who DOESN'T believe as YOU do, are either A) Deluded themselves, or B) Going around preaching a FALSE Gospel!

This is not a healthy way of furthering ones' own Spiritual Integrity, or "Sanctification!"

Not saying ANYWISE, EG, you are not saved!

But, I do say, you are placing UNDUE BURDENS upon those who "hear a call", that is (how can I say), "higher", then what you "hear!"

As if you are saying that "What I believe?"...."Is WELL ENOUGH!" And, indeed! That which you believe may well be what is good enough!....For YOU!....And, those "like" you.

The "truth" of the matter is one may not go UNTO the Father, but by "way" of the Sheeps Gate!
Another "truth!" One does NOT proceed UNTO the Father, without FIRST "picking up ones' own cross!" For this is the "where" the "furthering of Spiritual Integrity, or sanctification of the Spirit" is done!

What I see, is you going unto the Father, IN Christ, unto which you were forgiven, and sins remitted, and then beating your head against a wall, til you are senseless! And, then proclaiming that is as far as EVERYONE needs go! Never "daring" in proceeding onwards, to the Father, and places where God's Grace is not as abundant!
Let me ask you this, if I may. Just WHERE do you think one goes back to, when God tempts one, anyways? When, after all God Said He would NEVER tempt one MORE then they could endure, or leave them NO way out!

A person who believes a lie does not believe in christ, because god does and can not lie.

So i am not sure what your saying

 

[dcontroversal]

d...,
I am not sure you mean to say what you have said here;
Christ is not charged with ....maintaining our righteous status......we are.... and we do that by following G-d's commandments.

Wrong and I said exactly what I wanted to say which is biblical....my righteous standing before God has been eternally applied by faith and the blood.....obviously you have no understanding of justification and being positionally sanctified in Christ.....try trusting Jesus for once in your life!!