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One way to understand this is that salvation is always by grace thru faith in every time period.
Grace came from God, faith is how men should respond in obedience.
So for Cain, when God told him how to approach him, by offering the correct sacrifice, Cain chose not to respond in obedience, while Abel did, as Hebrews 11:4 indicated. That response in obedience to what God commanded is seen as faith.
For Abraham, God commanded him to leave the place he was living in and move to a new land. Abraham obeyed God, not knowing whether that place is habitable or not, and Hebrews 11:8 likewise recognized that as faith.
Later on Hebrews 11:17 also note that Abraham obeyed God and offered Issac as a sacrifice, God saw that as faith in him too.
By the time Mount Sinai arrived, God commanded the nation Israel to follow the Law of Moses, while providing a system of animal sacrifices whenever they fail to follow it perfectly. As long as the nation kept offering burnt sacrifices and try to keep the Law, God sees that as faith in him too.
That instruction continue to apply to the nation Israel, when Jesus was with them in the 4 gospels.
But now, the current time period we are living in, God commanded the Apostle Paul to tell all of us, Jews and Gentiles, Romans 4:5.
"But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness."
This verse is the clearest in telling us who are living in the but now time period, how should we respond in faith, to God's grace
That is to cease from all works and trust in Christ's finished work on the cross, for our salvation.
The moment we obey God's instructions there, he sees that as us putting faith in him, and he declares us righteous because we obeyed in faith.
Grace came from God, faith is how men should respond in obedience.
So for Cain, when God told him how to approach him, by offering the correct sacrifice, Cain chose not to respond in obedience, while Abel did, as Hebrews 11:4 indicated. That response in obedience to what God commanded is seen as faith.
For Abraham, God commanded him to leave the place he was living in and move to a new land. Abraham obeyed God, not knowing whether that place is habitable or not, and Hebrews 11:8 likewise recognized that as faith.
Later on Hebrews 11:17 also note that Abraham obeyed God and offered Issac as a sacrifice, God saw that as faith in him too.
By the time Mount Sinai arrived, God commanded the nation Israel to follow the Law of Moses, while providing a system of animal sacrifices whenever they fail to follow it perfectly. As long as the nation kept offering burnt sacrifices and try to keep the Law, God sees that as faith in him too.
That instruction continue to apply to the nation Israel, when Jesus was with them in the 4 gospels.
But now, the current time period we are living in, God commanded the Apostle Paul to tell all of us, Jews and Gentiles, Romans 4:5.
"But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness."
This verse is the clearest in telling us who are living in the but now time period, how should we respond in faith, to God's grace
That is to cease from all works and trust in Christ's finished work on the cross, for our salvation.
The moment we obey God's instructions there, he sees that as us putting faith in him, and he declares us righteous because we obeyed in faith.
So.. where does this "salvation" come from? Well seems MAN is trying very hard to tell man what salvation really is based on a personal belief? One can just cry out JESUS! And in that one word is repent....help me.. I believe.. or just crying out for help. The thief never did this. He just said remember me.
L
please post the scripture that says what you say above
Christ's blood is not grace. Grace is what is extended by God BECAUSE of the shed blood of His Son
there is not one person on this planet that has ever died completely sin free as you seem to suggest. did Jesus die to point out sin or did He die so we could be forgiven and accepted as God's beloved children?
Up until you spoke of Sinai you were on a good track. The issue with the Israelites was that they kept the law as work rather than faith, something Paul tells us in Romans 9:32. Rather than recognizing the character of the God they served through the law and serving Him in faith, they took the law as a means of establishing their own righteousness apart from God.
There is no separation or distinction of period, faith remains the same through all times. The only difference is that now we have seen God made manifest in the flesh so the unseen character of God is now known in Christ.
There is no separation or distinction of period, faith remains the same through all times. The only difference is that now we have seen God made manifest in the flesh so the unseen character of God is now known in Christ.
Faith after Sinai but before Christ came, required the Jews to keep the law of Moses.
Faith after Christ came required the Jews to repent and believe in Jesus as their Messiah, and be water baptized, on top of keeping the Law of Moses.
You are correct that the nation refuse to believe Jesus as their Messiah, and refused to be water baptized by John in the 4 gospels.
Since they refuse to obey God's requirement for them, yes, even if they continue to keep the law, they did not show they had faith in God. They were trying to establish their own righteousness thru keeping the law only, as you stated.
So yes, faith remains the same in all times, they have to obey God's requirement for them. You do agree that, before Christ came, the entire nation need not be water baptized correct?
Faith after Christ came required the Jews to repent and believe in Jesus as their Messiah, and be water baptized, on top of keeping the Law of Moses.
You are correct that the nation refuse to believe Jesus as their Messiah, and refused to be water baptized by John in the 4 gospels.
Since they refuse to obey God's requirement for them, yes, even if they continue to keep the law, they did not show they had faith in God. They were trying to establish their own righteousness thru keeping the law only, as you stated.
So yes, faith remains the same in all times, they have to obey God's requirement for them. You do agree that, before Christ came, the entire nation need not be water baptized correct?
If such "faith" were required than David and every other Israelite wouldn't have made it. No one but Christ has ever kept the law perfectly, and faith has always been what is required. Ordinances and trappings like the Sinai covenental code, baptism and other distinctives of the new covenant are external.
Many are making the same mistake with the New Covenant that was done with the old, instead of recognizing that what God requires is faith and the righteous live by faith the external trappings are being seen as what God is requiring and they are being pursued as work.
Jesus already revealed that error for what it is and where it leads. All we need to do is listen for the voice of the Shepherd and heed His call. It is a relationship with God and mistaking that relationship for the superficial trappings of religion only leads to condemnation.
Many are making the same mistake with the New Covenant that was done with the old, instead of recognizing that what God requires is faith and the righteous live by faith the external trappings are being seen as what God is requiring and they are being pursued as work.
Jesus already revealed that error for what it is and where it leads. All we need to do is listen for the voice of the Shepherd and heed His call. It is a relationship with God and mistaking that relationship for the superficial trappings of religion only leads to condemnation.
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Didn't I already state that God provided a system of animal sacrifices for Israel when they sin?
They show faith in God by obeying what God commanded them to do. Before Christ came, they were given the Law and commanded by God to obey it.
Before Christ came, no Jew from Israel can tell God "Since I cannot keep the Law perfectly, I am not going to even try to keep it." If one were to do that, he will be cut off from the covenant.
But for the rest of us living in the but now time period, we are no longer under the Law, as I have already stated using Romans 4:5
They show faith in God by obeying what God commanded them to do. Before Christ came, they were given the Law and commanded by God to obey it.
Before Christ came, no Jew from Israel can tell God "Since I cannot keep the Law perfectly, I am not going to even try to keep it." If one were to do that, he will be cut off from the covenant.
But for the rest of us living in the but now time period, we are no longer under the Law, as I have already stated using Romans 4:5
The blood of bulls and goats have never taken away sin as it is impossible for that to happen.
Certainly a faithful Hebrew would have followed the law, but that's external obedience and such obedience isn't profitable and never has been.
It is the inner obedience of faith that has always been what God has required which is why gentiles like Rahab and Ruth and Namaan and the Sidonese woman found favor apart from the law before Christ, two of them even while Israel continued to try to pursue God's favor via the law and was being held faithless.
Realistically the entire separation is because the church waited until Marcion's heresy to set a canon for Scripture. Because of this the lie that there is a difference between the Old and the New has taken hold and led to theologies like covenant theology and dispensationalism.
Certainly a faithful Hebrew would have followed the law, but that's external obedience and such obedience isn't profitable and never has been.
It is the inner obedience of faith that has always been what God has required which is why gentiles like Rahab and Ruth and Namaan and the Sidonese woman found favor apart from the law before Christ, two of them even while Israel continued to try to pursue God's favor via the law and was being held faithless.
Realistically the entire separation is because the church waited until Marcion's heresy to set a canon for Scripture. Because of this the lie that there is a difference between the Old and the New has taken hold and led to theologies like covenant theology and dispensationalism.
Yes I never claimed it did. It covered sins for the nation Israel until Jesus on the cross became the perfect sacrifice.
Its not whether that obedience to the Law was profitable. We know that God gave Israel the Law of Moses, and until Christ came, they had to obey the Law because God commanded them to. You could not show faith in God in any other way.
Its not whether that obedience to the Law was profitable. We know that God gave Israel the Law of Moses, and until Christ came, they had to obey the Law because God commanded them to. You could not show faith in God in any other way.
I gave you 4 examples of people who showed faith without the law. The law is just trappings, it's external to faith. In fact, if you paid attention to Jesus you would realize that there are considerations meant to be taken over and above the law.
How many tomes have been spent trying to explain why Jesus didn't condemn the adulterous woman according to the law?
And why did David testify that the sacrifices were not what God desired in the Psalms, but instead repentance? Why did Micah testify that sacrifice is not what God desired, but instead mercy? Yet these things were prescribed by the law and the Israelites dedicated themselves to them.
Something you may want to meditate on is what the Jews were missing in their rebuilding of the temple and why God didn't appear in it in the same way He did at the dedication of Solomon's temple.
As Habakkuk said and Paul quoted, the righteous live by faith. Both before and after the cross.
How many tomes have been spent trying to explain why Jesus didn't condemn the adulterous woman according to the law?
And why did David testify that the sacrifices were not what God desired in the Psalms, but instead repentance? Why did Micah testify that sacrifice is not what God desired, but instead mercy? Yet these things were prescribed by the law and the Israelites dedicated themselves to them.
Something you may want to meditate on is what the Jews were missing in their rebuilding of the temple and why God didn't appear in it in the same way He did at the dedication of Solomon's temple.
As Habakkuk said and Paul quoted, the righteous live by faith. Both before and after the cross.