My Best Explanation for the Trinity. Thoughts?
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Actually epiales I have said hundredes of times that I do not believe trinitarianism is a "REQUIREMENT" for salvation. It is the "RESULT" of salvation because you cannot know Jesus and somehow miss the fact that He is God. You cannot have experienced the presense of the Holy Spirit of God and somehow miss that He is God.
Romans 8:9-11, "However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him. vs10, And if Christ is in you, though the body is dead because of sin, yet the spirit is alive because of righteousness. Vs11, But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who indwells you."
The main issue in all of this is not about the Trinity, but who is Jesus Christ. Please read Matthew 16:13-20, "Who do people say the Son of Man is?"
IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
Romans 8:9-11, "However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him. vs10, And if Christ is in you, though the body is dead because of sin, yet the spirit is alive because of righteousness. Vs11, But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who indwells you."
The main issue in all of this is not about the Trinity, but who is Jesus Christ. Please read Matthew 16:13-20, "Who do people say the Son of Man is?"
IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
J
Actually epiales I have said hundredes of times that I do not believe trinitarianism is a "REQUIREMENT" for salvation. It is the "RESULT" of salvation because you cannot know Jesus and somehow miss the fact that He is God. You cannot have experienced the presense of the Holy Spirit of God and somehow miss that He is God.
Romans 8:9-11, "However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him. vs10, And if Christ is in you, though the body is dead because of sin, yet the spirit is alive because of righteousness. Vs11, But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who indwells you."
The main issue in all of this is not about the Trinity, but who is Jesus Christ. Please read Matthew 16:13-20, "Who do people say the Son of Man is?"
IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
Romans 8:9-11, "However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him. vs10, And if Christ is in you, though the body is dead because of sin, yet the spirit is alive because of righteousness. Vs11, But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who indwells you."
The main issue in all of this is not about the Trinity, but who is Jesus Christ. Please read Matthew 16:13-20, "Who do people say the Son of Man is?"
IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
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Again jaybird, one is lost based on who is Jesus Christ. You deny He is God, therefore your lost. Your not lost because the Trinity is a requirement of salvation. Jesus also said at John 8:24, "I said therefore to you, that you shall die in your sins; for UNLESS you believe that I am, you shall die in your sins." So jaybird. do you really think your going to die in your sins if you believe that Jesus Christ is just a man like you and me?
IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
Many people believe in a trinity, but I do not believe in a trinity, for there is too much evidence against it.
I believe there is one God who is a Holy Spirit, which the Spirit moved in creation, and Jesus was conceived by the Spirit, and the Spirit dwells in the saints, and Father is a title for God, and the Son is the man Christ Jesus.
They say there is 3 persons in one God, and then say God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit, which then they are saying 3 Gods.
Which is it 3 persons in one God, or 3 Gods.
Not 3 persons in one God, but the 3 relationships God has with His children designated by titles, but it is the same God with no distinction of persons.
Father- parent of the saints.
Son- God's visible relationship to the saints, and God in visible activity.
Holy Spirit- God's invisible relationship to the saints, and God in invisible activity.
Isa 44:8 Fear ye not, neither be afraid: have not I told thee from that time, and have declared it? ye are even my witnesses. Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any.
Isa 43:10 Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.
Isa 43:11 I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour.
1Co 8:6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.
There is one God, the Father, and one visible manifestation of God to the saints, the Lord Jesus Christ.
Eph 4:6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
The Bible only attributes the Father as God, who is above all.
Rom 1:3 Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;
Rom 1:4 And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead.
Gal 4:4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,
Gal 4:5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.
The Son was made according to the flesh, made of a woman, made under the law.
The distinction between Father and Son is God and man, and there is no trinity.
Isa 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
Isa 9:7 Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this.
The Son shall be called the everlasting Father, and Jesus is God manifest in the flesh, and there is only one God, the Father.
Isa 52:6 Therefore my people shall know my name: therefore they shall know in that day that I am he that doth speak: behold, it is I.
God will reveal a new name to the Jews, Jesus, and speak to them.
Joh 14:7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.
Joh 14:8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
Joh 14:9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?
Joh 14:10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
Jesus told Philip if he has seen Him then He has seen the Father, and the words that He speaks are not His own, but the Father that dwells in Him, He does the works, for God said He would reveal a new name to the Jews, and speak to them.
Joh 16:23 And in that day ye shall ask me nothing. Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall ask the Father in my name, he will give it you.
Jesus said when He resurrects to heaven they shall ask Him nothing, which He is speaking as the man Christ Jesus, and said to only ask the Father and He will do it.
Joh 14:12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.
Joh 14:13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.
Joh 14:14 If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.
But here Jesus said that when He resurrects to heaven that the saints shall ask in His name, and He will do it because He is God the Father.
Jesus said only ask God, the Father, and He will do it, but then Jesus said ask in His name, and He will do it.
There is only one God who is a Holy Spirit, and Father is a title for God, and the Son is the man Christ Jesus.
Mat 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost.
Baptize in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost, which those are not names, but titles, and it said name singular, which the name is Jesus.
Luk 24:47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.
Luke says baptism in the name of Jesus.
Act 2:37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
Act 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Act 2:39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
The Jews were baptized in the name of Jesus.
Act 8:14 Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John:
Act 8:15 Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost:
Act 8:16 (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)
Act 8:17 Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost.
The Samaritans were baptized in the name of Jesus.
Act 10:44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.
Act 10:45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Act 10:48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.
Act 19:4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
Act 19:5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
The Gentiles were baptized in the name of Jesus.
Act 4:12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.
There is no other name to be saved by but the name Jesus.
Col 3:17 And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him.
Whatsoever we do in word or deed, we do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, not Father, Son, and Holy Ghost.
Jesus created all things, came in flesh, and dwells in the saints.
Isa 52:5 Now therefore, what have I here, saith the LORD, that my people is taken away for nought? they that rule over them make them to howl, saith the LORD; and my name continually every day is blasphemed.
Isa 52:6 Therefore my people shall know my name: therefore they shall know in that day that I am he that doth speak: behold, it is I.
God, the Father, said He would reveal His new name to the Jews, Jesus, and speak to them.
Joh 5:43 I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.
Joh 17:6 I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word.
Joh 17:26 And I have declared unto them thy name, and will declare it: that the love wherewith thou hast loved me may be in them, and I in them.
Jesus came in His Father's name, and manifested, and declared the Father's name.
Jesus is the name of the Father.
Heb 1:4 Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.
The Son inherited the name from the Father.
Jesus is the name of the Son.
Joh 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
The Holy Ghost comes in the name of Jesus.
Jesus is the name of the Holy Ghost.
Pro 30:4 Who hath ascended up into heaven, or descended? who hath gathered the wind in his fists? who hath bound the waters in a garment? who hath established all the ends of the earth? what is his name, and what is his son's name, if thou canst tell?
Jesus is God manifest in the flesh, so it is the name of the Father, and the Son, the man Christ Jesus.
There is one God who is a Holy Spirit, and Father it a title for God, and the Son is the man Christ Jesus.
Continued,
I believe there is one God who is a Holy Spirit, which the Spirit moved in creation, and Jesus was conceived by the Spirit, and the Spirit dwells in the saints, and Father is a title for God, and the Son is the man Christ Jesus.
They say there is 3 persons in one God, and then say God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit, which then they are saying 3 Gods.
Which is it 3 persons in one God, or 3 Gods.
Not 3 persons in one God, but the 3 relationships God has with His children designated by titles, but it is the same God with no distinction of persons.
Father- parent of the saints.
Son- God's visible relationship to the saints, and God in visible activity.
Holy Spirit- God's invisible relationship to the saints, and God in invisible activity.
Isa 44:8 Fear ye not, neither be afraid: have not I told thee from that time, and have declared it? ye are even my witnesses. Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any.
Isa 43:10 Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.
Isa 43:11 I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour.
1Co 8:6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.
There is one God, the Father, and one visible manifestation of God to the saints, the Lord Jesus Christ.
Eph 4:6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
The Bible only attributes the Father as God, who is above all.
Rom 1:3 Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;
Rom 1:4 And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead.
Gal 4:4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,
Gal 4:5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.
The Son was made according to the flesh, made of a woman, made under the law.
The distinction between Father and Son is God and man, and there is no trinity.
Isa 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
Isa 9:7 Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this.
The Son shall be called the everlasting Father, and Jesus is God manifest in the flesh, and there is only one God, the Father.
Isa 52:6 Therefore my people shall know my name: therefore they shall know in that day that I am he that doth speak: behold, it is I.
God will reveal a new name to the Jews, Jesus, and speak to them.
Joh 14:7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.
Joh 14:8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
Joh 14:9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?
Joh 14:10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
Jesus told Philip if he has seen Him then He has seen the Father, and the words that He speaks are not His own, but the Father that dwells in Him, He does the works, for God said He would reveal a new name to the Jews, and speak to them.
Joh 16:23 And in that day ye shall ask me nothing. Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall ask the Father in my name, he will give it you.
Jesus said when He resurrects to heaven they shall ask Him nothing, which He is speaking as the man Christ Jesus, and said to only ask the Father and He will do it.
Joh 14:12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.
Joh 14:13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.
Joh 14:14 If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.
But here Jesus said that when He resurrects to heaven that the saints shall ask in His name, and He will do it because He is God the Father.
Jesus said only ask God, the Father, and He will do it, but then Jesus said ask in His name, and He will do it.
There is only one God who is a Holy Spirit, and Father is a title for God, and the Son is the man Christ Jesus.
Mat 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost.
Baptize in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost, which those are not names, but titles, and it said name singular, which the name is Jesus.
Luk 24:47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.
Luke says baptism in the name of Jesus.
Act 2:37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
Act 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Act 2:39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
The Jews were baptized in the name of Jesus.
Act 8:14 Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John:
Act 8:15 Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost:
Act 8:16 (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)
Act 8:17 Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost.
The Samaritans were baptized in the name of Jesus.
Act 10:44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.
Act 10:45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Act 10:48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.
Act 19:4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
Act 19:5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
The Gentiles were baptized in the name of Jesus.
Act 4:12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.
There is no other name to be saved by but the name Jesus.
Col 3:17 And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him.
Whatsoever we do in word or deed, we do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, not Father, Son, and Holy Ghost.
Jesus created all things, came in flesh, and dwells in the saints.
Isa 52:5 Now therefore, what have I here, saith the LORD, that my people is taken away for nought? they that rule over them make them to howl, saith the LORD; and my name continually every day is blasphemed.
Isa 52:6 Therefore my people shall know my name: therefore they shall know in that day that I am he that doth speak: behold, it is I.
God, the Father, said He would reveal His new name to the Jews, Jesus, and speak to them.
Joh 5:43 I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.
Joh 17:6 I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word.
Joh 17:26 And I have declared unto them thy name, and will declare it: that the love wherewith thou hast loved me may be in them, and I in them.
Jesus came in His Father's name, and manifested, and declared the Father's name.
Jesus is the name of the Father.
Heb 1:4 Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.
The Son inherited the name from the Father.
Jesus is the name of the Son.
Joh 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
The Holy Ghost comes in the name of Jesus.
Jesus is the name of the Holy Ghost.
Pro 30:4 Who hath ascended up into heaven, or descended? who hath gathered the wind in his fists? who hath bound the waters in a garment? who hath established all the ends of the earth? what is his name, and what is his son's name, if thou canst tell?
Jesus is God manifest in the flesh, so it is the name of the Father, and the Son, the man Christ Jesus.
There is one God who is a Holy Spirit, and Father it a title for God, and the Son is the man Christ Jesus.
Continued,
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Continued,
The right hand of God.
Jesus is at the right hand of God.
There is only one throne in heaven, and one who sits on that throne, which is the throne of God and the Lamb, God in the glorified body of the man Christ Jesus.
There is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, and the man Christ Jesus is the Savior, for only a sinless man can reconcile the world unto God.
But no man is sinless so God manifest Himself in flesh, and reconciled the world unto Himself in the person of Jesus Christ, God and man in harmony.
Jesus said all power is given unto Me in heaven and earth.
David said, the LORD said unto my Lord, sit at my right hand until I make your enemies your footstool.
Which the Son must reign until all His enemies are conquered, the last one being death, and when they are conquered the Son shall submit to the Father, that God may be all in all.
Since the man Christ Jesus is the Savior, and mediator, God exalted Him to exercise the throne of power, be at His right hand until His enemies are conquered, and when they are conquered then the Son shall stop exercising the throne of power, stop being at the right hand, that God may be all in all.
For His mediator role is done and the man Christ Jesus no longer needs to exercise the throne of power, which God is ruling through the man Christ Jesus for the sake of the saints.
Jesus is not sitting on a throne next to the Father, but there is only one throne in heaven, and one who sits on the throne, which is the throne of God and the Lamb, God in the glorified body of the man Christ Jesus.
The only person we will see in heaven, and the only visible manifestation of God we will see is Jesus.
Let us make man in our image.
God calls things that have not happened yet, as though they already happened, for if it is a plan of God to happen in the future, it is the same as if it happened in the beginning, for it will surely come to pass with no hindrance.
The Lamb was slain, and prophets blood shed, the kingdom prepared, and all the works were finished from the foundation of the world although they were future events.
The Word of God is a plan of God to come in the future in flesh, and that plan was already with God in the beginning, and without that plan God would of not created anything that He created.
Jesus is the beginning of creation, and the firstborn among the creatures, although He was not born until 4000 years later.
So the man Christ Jesus can be considered in the beginning before He is born, for God calls things that have not happened yet, as though they already happened.
In the Old Testament Adam made in the image of God, in the New Testament Adam made in the figure of Christ.
The image of God is the image of Christ.
God had the plan to come in the future in flesh before the foundation of the world, and created Adam in the image that He would show up in the future, and that is an innocent nature in flesh.
So the let us make man in our image has to include the man Christ Jesus, for He is part of the image that God created Adam, for Adam was made in the image of God, which is the figure of Christ.
Let us, God, the Father, and the Son, the man Christ Jesus, make man in the image that we will show up in the future, and that is an innocent nature in flesh.
There is only one God who is a Holy Spirit, and Father is a title for God, and the Son is the man Christ Jesus.
The distinction between Father and Son is God and man, and the Son shall be called the everlasting Father, and Jesus said to Philip if you have seen Me then you have seen the Father, and there is only one throne in heaven, the throne of God and the Lamb.
There is no trinity, which is a Roman Catholic Church doctrine, and when the Protestant movement protested, it looks like many did not protest enough.
The right hand of God.
Jesus is at the right hand of God.
There is only one throne in heaven, and one who sits on that throne, which is the throne of God and the Lamb, God in the glorified body of the man Christ Jesus.
There is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, and the man Christ Jesus is the Savior, for only a sinless man can reconcile the world unto God.
But no man is sinless so God manifest Himself in flesh, and reconciled the world unto Himself in the person of Jesus Christ, God and man in harmony.
Jesus said all power is given unto Me in heaven and earth.
David said, the LORD said unto my Lord, sit at my right hand until I make your enemies your footstool.
Which the Son must reign until all His enemies are conquered, the last one being death, and when they are conquered the Son shall submit to the Father, that God may be all in all.
Since the man Christ Jesus is the Savior, and mediator, God exalted Him to exercise the throne of power, be at His right hand until His enemies are conquered, and when they are conquered then the Son shall stop exercising the throne of power, stop being at the right hand, that God may be all in all.
For His mediator role is done and the man Christ Jesus no longer needs to exercise the throne of power, which God is ruling through the man Christ Jesus for the sake of the saints.
Jesus is not sitting on a throne next to the Father, but there is only one throne in heaven, and one who sits on the throne, which is the throne of God and the Lamb, God in the glorified body of the man Christ Jesus.
The only person we will see in heaven, and the only visible manifestation of God we will see is Jesus.
Let us make man in our image.
God calls things that have not happened yet, as though they already happened, for if it is a plan of God to happen in the future, it is the same as if it happened in the beginning, for it will surely come to pass with no hindrance.
The Lamb was slain, and prophets blood shed, the kingdom prepared, and all the works were finished from the foundation of the world although they were future events.
The Word of God is a plan of God to come in the future in flesh, and that plan was already with God in the beginning, and without that plan God would of not created anything that He created.
Jesus is the beginning of creation, and the firstborn among the creatures, although He was not born until 4000 years later.
So the man Christ Jesus can be considered in the beginning before He is born, for God calls things that have not happened yet, as though they already happened.
In the Old Testament Adam made in the image of God, in the New Testament Adam made in the figure of Christ.
The image of God is the image of Christ.
God had the plan to come in the future in flesh before the foundation of the world, and created Adam in the image that He would show up in the future, and that is an innocent nature in flesh.
So the let us make man in our image has to include the man Christ Jesus, for He is part of the image that God created Adam, for Adam was made in the image of God, which is the figure of Christ.
Let us, God, the Father, and the Son, the man Christ Jesus, make man in the image that we will show up in the future, and that is an innocent nature in flesh.
There is only one God who is a Holy Spirit, and Father is a title for God, and the Son is the man Christ Jesus.
The distinction between Father and Son is God and man, and the Son shall be called the everlasting Father, and Jesus said to Philip if you have seen Me then you have seen the Father, and there is only one throne in heaven, the throne of God and the Lamb.
There is no trinity, which is a Roman Catholic Church doctrine, and when the Protestant movement protested, it looks like many did not protest enough.
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J
Again jaybird, one is lost based on who is Jesus Christ. You deny He is God, therefore your lost. Your not lost because the Trinity is a requirement of salvation. Jesus also said at John 8:24, "I said therefore to you, that you shall die in your sins; for UNLESS you believe that I am, you shall die in your sins." So jaybird. do you really think your going to die in your sins if you believe that Jesus Christ is just a man like you and me?
IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
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Why is it jaybird you always change what I actually said? "lost and going to hell because we dont proclaim the trinity." You know full well that is not what I stated. I stated one is lost based on denying the deity of Jesus Christ, period. And no, I don't care what others have said. I'm only accountable for what I say, and so are you btw. Moreover, why bring up what was done in the past? If a person happens to be German is he responsible for the holocaaust? How old are you jaybird?
IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
J
Why is it jaybird you always change what I actually said? "lost and going to hell because we dont proclaim the trinity." You know full well that is not what I stated. I stated one is lost based on denying the deity of Jesus Christ, period. And no, I don't care what others have said. I'm only accountable for what I say, and so are you btw. Moreover, why bring up what was done in the past? If a person happens to be German is he responsible for the holocaaust? How old are you jaybird?
IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
what i brought up from the past was from the past but it is a fact that you cant deny. if i was told to follow a belief that lead to persecution and murder i would take a second look and be sure. those results are not good fruits. was Jesus and the 12 persecutors or were they the ones being persecuted. i would rather follow their way and not the way of the ones that killed them.
Correct.
But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting. (Micah 5:2)
That one verse should settle the matter as to the existence of Jesus (the Word and eternal Son) from eternity past.
It is significant to note that when the chief priests and scribes were asked by Herod about where Christ should be born, they knowingly omitted the last clause. They did not want to believe that Jesus of Nazareth would also be everlasting God.
But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting. (Micah 5:2)
That one verse should settle the matter as to the existence of Jesus (the Word and eternal Son) from eternity past.
It is significant to note that when the chief priests and scribes were asked by Herod about where Christ should be born, they knowingly omitted the last clause. They did not want to believe that Jesus of Nazareth would also be everlasting God.
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This "work" with Scriptures is between Jews to this day. Trying to put away that its about Christ, that Christ is God etc.
They also selected the textual variant that fits their view the most. Sadly, the reformed churches accepted this text in the 16th century, too.
Ever wondered why Jews are able not to believe in Jesus when they read all the Christ-like prophecies in the O.T.? They do not have them there. "Young girl" instead of "virgin", "like a lion" instead of "they pierced my hands and feet" etc.
They also selected the textual variant that fits their view the most. Sadly, the reformed churches accepted this text in the 16th century, too.
Ever wondered why Jews are able not to believe in Jesus when they read all the Christ-like prophecies in the O.T.? They do not have them there. "Young girl" instead of "virgin", "like a lion" instead of "they pierced my hands and feet" etc.
Matt, you are THOROUGHLY CONFUSED about this matter. You have confused God the Father with the Holy Spirit, then said "Father is a title for God", and then said that "the Son is the man Christ Jesus".
On the other hand, all you have to believe is that there are three divine Persons within the one Godhead: God the Father, God the Son (the Word), and God the Holy Spirit.
For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. (1 John 5:7 KJB)
On the other hand, all you have to believe is that there are three divine Persons within the one Godhead: God the Father, God the Son (the Word), and God the Holy Spirit.
For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. (1 John 5:7 KJB)
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Yes, Jesus Christ was sthe Word, is the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word IS God...
The Holy Spirit, Jesus and the Father are One….One.
All who loearn from the Old Testamen writings know that Yahweh is our Father, our King, and our Husband , and these titles also belong to Jesus Christ. It is a mystery, I believe it by faith, but I will never correct anyone on how they understand it all, because no one understands this mystery implicitely. Faith is the way……..Jesus Christ is God………...
The Holy Spirit, Jesus and the Father are One….One.
All who loearn from the Old Testamen writings know that Yahweh is our Father, our King, and our Husband , and these titles also belong to Jesus Christ. It is a mystery, I believe it by faith, but I will never correct anyone on how they understand it all, because no one understands this mystery implicitely. Faith is the way……..Jesus Christ is God………...
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You are a brave man, JerseyChristian98!
You are taking on a subject that most christians, including me, avoid!
I usually hate not being able to understand things, but I do recognise that there are certain questions, like this one, that fall into the category of transcendence. What I mean is that if we could fully understand God, it is very likely that this God is an idol. God has provided us with a revelation of himself. We understand what God has chosen to tell us, what we can cope with. But there is plenty we cannot understand and plenty we cannot cope with. God has not told us everything. There are mysteries. This is one of them. The trinity is not logical and like the concept of infinity, it is not really understood. Sonship in this context means only the role of christ as submissive to the will of the Father. There is no implication that the Father ‘generated’ the Son or preceded him. God stands outside time.
Certain mathmaticians have tried to predict the stock market using advanced methods. It unhinged their minds. The stock market is chaotic. It cannot be predicted. The trinity, in my opinion, cannot be understood by men. I would advise you to not become too focused on it. It can be psychologically healthy to admit there really are some things too wonderful for us!
Hope this helps!
You are taking on a subject that most christians, including me, avoid!
I usually hate not being able to understand things, but I do recognise that there are certain questions, like this one, that fall into the category of transcendence. What I mean is that if we could fully understand God, it is very likely that this God is an idol. God has provided us with a revelation of himself. We understand what God has chosen to tell us, what we can cope with. But there is plenty we cannot understand and plenty we cannot cope with. God has not told us everything. There are mysteries. This is one of them. The trinity is not logical and like the concept of infinity, it is not really understood. Sonship in this context means only the role of christ as submissive to the will of the Father. There is no implication that the Father ‘generated’ the Son or preceded him. God stands outside time.
Certain mathmaticians have tried to predict the stock market using advanced methods. It unhinged their minds. The stock market is chaotic. It cannot be predicted. The trinity, in my opinion, cannot be understood by men. I would advise you to not become too focused on it. It can be psychologically healthy to admit there really are some things too wonderful for us!
Hope this helps!
The issue of the Catholic dogma of the trinity is whether its precepts are without variableness nor shades of turning.
16 Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me. 17 If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself. 18 He that speaketh of himself seeketh his own glory: but he that seeketh his glory that sent him, the same is true, and no unrighteousness is in him.
John 7:16-18
If the the doctrine was not his doctrine, then what principle defines the doctrine of Christ?
16 Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me. 17 If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself. 18 He that speaketh of himself seeketh his own glory: but he that seeketh his glory that sent him, the same is true, and no unrighteousness is in him.
John 7:16-18
If the the doctrine was not his doctrine, then what principle defines the doctrine of Christ?
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They didn't teach that every man (male or female) was endowed by their Creator with the right to life either.
For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.
Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.
Matt 16:27-28
For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.
Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.
Matt 16:27-28