Must Jesus bear the cross alone?

[OneFaith]

Yet the unrighteous practice (willful, habitual lifestyle with no effort to stop) sin (1 Corinthians 6:9-10; Galatians 5:19-21); not the righteous who are born of God (1 John 3:9; 1 Corinthians 6:11).

Jesus said "everyone who believes in Him." I believe Jesus. I don't try to "add" additional requirements to "believes in Him."

Repentance is a change of mind which precedes saving belief in Him (Acts 20:21). Confessing with out mouth that Jesus is Lord and believing in our heart that God raised Him from the dead are not two separate steps to salvation, but are chronologically together (Romans 10:8-10). Water baptism FOLLOWS "believes in Him unto salvation" (Acts 10:43-47; 11:17,18).

If Revelation 2:10 teaches that we must be "faithful enough" in addition to believing in Him/placing faith in Him for salvation, then just "how faithful would you have to be?" Where do you draw the line in the sand and say that you were "faithful enough" so now the Lord will be able to save you? That is vague and could include ANY number of good works.

This verse is meant to be an encouraging statement from the Lord to Christians at the church of Smyrna who were being persecuted, even to the point of death. Jesus was not telling these Christians that if they are not "faithful enough" in addition to believing in Him/having faith in Him for salvation that they will not receive eternal life. That is salvation by works! The Lord was telling them that they will receive the crown of life after death, be faithful, hang in there!

*In the very next verse, Jesus said - "He who overcomes shall not be hurt by the second death." 1 John 5:4, we read - "For whatever is born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world--our faith. ONLY BELIEVERS are saved, overcome, and are faithful unto death (Ephesians 2:8; 1 Peter 1:9). Unbelievers are not saved, do not overcome and are unfaithful unto death.

Actually I don't, as long as passages of scripture that contain the words (obey/do/if) are not being misused to teach salvation by works.

Choosing to place our faith (belief, trust, reliance) in Christ for salvation is an act of obedience in which we obey the gospel by choosing to believe the gospel (Romans 1:16; 10:16). *Not to be confused with multiple acts of obedience/works which FOLLOW and are produced "out of" faith.

I hear this same argument from Roman Catholics who basically define belief as obedience/works. I was once in a discussion with a Roman Catholic about faith and he made this erroneous statement below:

That Roman Catholic also made this statement:

We ARE saved by faith - as long as you properly define "Faith". Faith is NOT simply "believing". Faith INCLUDES: Being baptized, eating His body and drinking His blood/partaking the Lord's Supper during Mass, works of mercy and charity, obeying his commandments, doing the will of the Father etc..

His argument about faith being "defined as" and INCLUDES this list works above equates to salvation through faith (his version of faith) + works. Sound familiar?

Here is why belief and obey are sometimes used interchangeably. In John 3:36 in the NASB, we read - He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not [a]obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.”

In regards to "does not obey the Son" in the New American Standard translation of the Bible, this does not mean that receiving eternal life is received based on the merits of our obedience/works which follows believing in the Son, but obey by choosing to believe in the Son. *If John wanted to make obedience the central theme in salvation here, he would have said: "He who believes and obeys the Son has eternal life," but that is not what John said. *To obey the Son here is to believe in the Son.

The King James Version renders this same verse as: He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that "believeth not the Son" shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him. The NKJV says "does not believe the Son" and the NIV says "rejects the Son." The Greek word translated as "believeth not" in that verse is apeitheo and it means: not believe, disobedient, obey not, unbelieving. Strong’s definition of apeitheo is "to disbelieve willfully and perversely." *So in the context of 3:36, to not obey the Son means to reject His message by refusing to believe in the Son.

I have often heard works-salvationists (including Roman Catholics) cite John 3:36 in the NAS translation of the Bible and stress the word "obey" the Son, then write a blank check with the word "obey" and fill out whatever amount of works they feel are necessary to be saved (water baptism, partaking of the Lord's Supper during Mass, obeying the commandments, performing works of charity etc..) and call that believing in the Son, yet they are actually believing in their works and not IN THE SON.

You misuse the word "obey" in scripture in such a way that the end result is salvation by works. Faith + works is still salvation by works. In contrast, Faith IN CHRIST ALONE is NOT OF WORKS (Ephesians 2:8,9).

Yes, the unrighteous do practice willful sin without effort to stop, but so do some Christians (the righteous). But the bible is not written to the worldly (unrighteous) but to the righteous. By saying "If you sin willfully" it is saying if a Christian sins willfully." Then it goes on to say 'no longer remains'- which means it once genuinely did., but was taken away. Taken away from whom? The christian who sins willfully. What is taken away? Christ's sacrifice on their behalf. This person was saved, but is saved no longer.

"If it is hard for the righteous to be saved, what will become of the ungodly and the sinner?" 1 Peter 4:18

 

[OneFaith]

Just as i thought a works salvation preaching religonist..

Woe to you if you EVER fail to do exactly what you have preached here. And be assured you will fail to live up to the standards of Christ.

You have made all these things a MUST to do for salvation to be had.. You have declared belief in the Atonment of the LORD Jesus Christ to be not enough. That the Blood of Jesus is insufficent for our salvation.. You have placed a stumbling stone before yourself and anyone else who listens and accepts your preaching..

Um, I am not the One Who put all the 'musts' in the bible- therefore I am not the One Who made all these things a must.

 

[Adstar]

Um, I am not the One Who put all the 'musts' in the bible- therefore I am not the One Who made all these things a must.

Then i challenge you to quote the Holy Bible where Jesus said that we MUST do what you just preached that we MUST do..

""""Therefore, we must not forsake the assembly, but partake of the Lords Supper upon the first day of the week in the assembly of Christinns.""""

Oh don't even try because you will NEVER find such a Works religion stipulation for Christians in the Bible.. This is what you have added to the Word of God from the unbiblical traditions of men religion that you follow..

 

[mailmandan]

Yes, the unrighteous do practice willful sin without effort to stop, but so do some Christians (the righteous). But the bible is not written to the worldly (unrighteous) but to the righteous. By saying "If you sin willfully" it is saying if a Christian sins willfully." Then it goes on to say 'no longer remains'- which means it once genuinely did., but was taken away. Taken away from whom? The christian who sins willfully. What is taken away? Christ's sacrifice on their behalf. This person was saved, but is saved no longer.

God's Word disagrees with you. The unrighteous practice (willful, habitual lifestyle with no effort to stop) sin (1 Corinthians 6:9-10; Galatians 5:19-21); not the righteous who are born of God (1 John 3:9; 1 Corinthians 6:11).

"If it is hard for the righteous to be saved, what will become of the ungodly and the sinner?" 1 Peter 4:18

It is with great difficulty, suffering, pain and loss that the righteous are saved. Not that it's hard for the righteous to be saved or remain saved. You continue to read your preconceived ideas into the text. Peter is not teaching that only those who are righteous that work hard enough to win a gold medal in the Olympic race of the Christian life will be saved and everyone else will perish.

That is salvation by works.

 

[OneFaith]

Then i challenge you to quote the Holy Bible where Jesus said that we MUST do what you just preached that we MUST do..



Oh don't even try because you will NEVER find such a Works religion stipulation for Christians in the Bible.. This is what you have added to the Word of God from the unbiblical traditions of men religion that you follow..

"Do not be deceived, neither the sexually immoral, nor the adulterers, nor idolaters, nor homosexual offenders, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor slanderers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God." 1 Corinthians 6:9,10

Are you telling me there is not one christian who has to work at not being one of these?

"Continue to WORK out your salvation with fear and trembling." Philippians 2:12

Our works CANNOT earn salvation, therefore God can have us work all He wants and still have grace be a gift. He gives grace to those who obey Him. You people who say all you have to DO is believe are hypocrites, because you turn around and say there is nothing we do on our part to be saved.

 

[Adstar]

"Do not be deceived, neither the sexually immoral, nor the adulterers, nor idolaters, nor homosexual offenders, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor slanderers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God." 1 Corinthians 6:9,10

Are you telling me there is not one christian who has to work at not being one of these?

"Continue to WORK out your salvation with fear and trembling." Philippians 2:12

Our works CANNOT earn salvation, therefore God can have us work all He wants and still have grace be a gift. He gives grace to those who obey Him. You people who say all you have to DO is believe are hypocrites, because you turn around and say there is nothing we do on our part to be saved.

Yeah you could not bring forth the scriptures to back up what you preached.. figures..

""""Therefore, we must not forsake the assembly, but partake of the Lords Supper upon the first day of the week in the assembly of Christinns.""""

But you stated it was a works we MUST do to be saved.. You declared it a MUST

You never preached salvation by Grace you preached against salvation by Grace you preached salvation by attending church on Sunday and performing the Lords Supper on that day with the congregation.. That's what you preached and that what will see you condemned.. Unless you repent of it.. There is no salvation for those who have a foot in both grace salvation camp and the works a salvation camp..

Salvation is 100% by the Atonement of the LORD Jesus Christ and NOTHING else..

 

[mailmandan]

People who say that works CANNOT earn salvation, but then turn around and say that we MUST accomplish a check list of works in order to be saved are hypocrites. That salvation is by grace through faith and is NOT BY WORKS (Ephesians 2:8,9) is not to understand. It's just hard for works-salvationists to ACCEPT. It's a shame that human pride will not allow works-salvationists to trust in Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of their salvation. Their hands are full of their works and they will not let go in order to receive Christ through FAITH.

 

[7seasrekeyed]

"Do not be deceived, neither the sexually immoral, nor the adulterers, nor idolaters, nor homosexual offenders, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor slanderers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God." 1 Corinthians 6:9,10

Are you telling me there is not one christian who has to work at not being one of these?

"Continue to WORK out your salvation with fear and trembling." Philippians 2:12

Our works CANNOT earn salvation, therefore God can have us work all He wants and still have grace be a gift. He gives grace to those who obey Him. You people who say all you have to DO is believe are hypocrites, because you turn around and say there is nothing we do on our part to be saved.

ummm...do you actually believe every Christian is having a hard time dealing with sexual immorality or adultery or idolatry or sexual perversion or theft or greed or drunkenness or slander or swindling others? I'd like to point out to you that while some do perhaps find themselves in a struggle regarding that list, where does sanctification come in?

don't you think some of us have overcome the things on that list? or even better, never did those things to begin with? now to be sure, there are many more things that would be called sin, but you go so far as to say 'Are you telling me there is not one christian who has to work at not being one of these?'

perhaps you don't mean it quite the way it sounds, but a person could get the impression that Christianity is one long drudgery wherein all we do is try to stop sinning. That is not Christianity.

let's look at the scripture you posted IN CONTEXT

9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,

10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

do you see that? Paul states they are now washed, sanctified and justified.

how? IN THE NAME OF OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST and BY THE SPIRIT OF OUR GOD

sin conscious people never make the grade in their own minds. they are never 'good' enough or 'clean' enough or enough of anything and can never seem to punish themselves enough either

do NOT take what I have written here to say in any way, shape or form, that I said it is ok to keep sinning or live in sin

what I am actually saying, is that you took a verse out of context and made a case out of it that the actual author of the verse DID NOT MAKE!

find some balance in the word. be Christ conscious and understand that He is the One that washed us clean and sanctifies us and justifies us before the Father. NOTHING we can do achieves that

obedience does not mean trying to be as good as we can be

 

[so-jesus-e-deus]

It depends. We have to carry our cross, not His:

• "And he said to them all, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me." (Luke 9.23).

 

[mailmandan]

"Continue to WORK out your salvation with fear and trembling." Philippians 2:12

Roman Catholics often quote this verse using the same interpretation that you are implying. Notice that Paul said to "work out" our salvation and not "work for" our salvation. When we "work out" at the gym, we exercise to develop our body that we already have and not to get a body. Farmers "work" the land, not in order to get the land, but to develop the land they already have. Maintaining our salvation by works is not being taught here.

The Greek verb rendered "work out" means "to continually work to bring something to completion or fruition." We do this by actively pursuing the process of ongoing sanctification, which is the result of being set apart for God's work and involves the process of being conformed to the image of Christ. This conforming to Christ involves the work of the person, but it is still God working in the believer to produce more of a godly character and life in the person who has already been justified by faith.

W A Criswell emphasizes that Philippians 2:12-13 "must be read together for a proper understanding. “Work out your own salvation” means to “work out,” not “work for.” A “works salvation” is not being taught. The idea is to progress to the finish or completion in spiritual growth and maturity. This process is what the Bible calls “sanctification.” It should be noted that Phil 2:12 makes it clear we are to be active, not passive, in this process. However, though we are active, we are not alone. Phil 2:13 reminds us again that the entire salvation process is the work of a sovereign God and the result of His grace (Ed: Ministered by the indwelling Holy Spirit).. (Criswell, W A. Believer's Study Bible: New King James Version. 1991. Thomas Nelson)

 

[mailmandan]

"If it is hard for the righteous to be saved, what will become of the ungodly and the sinner?" 1 Peter 4:18

You make "how to be saved" out to be a lot harder than it really is.

 

[calibob]

the problem we try to think of rightousness and godliness as if they were the same thing. An ungodly person is a sinner, plain and simple. An unrightous person is closer to a criminal. Sinners make mistakes which can be set aside by Jesus, through grace, Rightous is restored by repentance or turning from our wicked ways.