Matthew 24:40 Is the rapture secret?

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randyk

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This is consistent with Malachi 4:3, "Then you will trample the wicked, for they will be ashes under the soles of your feet on the day I am preparing,"...and its cross references Thess 5: 1-11, 2 Peter 3: 8-15, and Zeph 1: 7-18 written in the context of the Day of the LORD.

Mal 4:2 "But for you who fear My name, the sun of righteousness will rise with healing in its wings,"
I believe we come back with Jesus in a unified witness of Christian righteousness. I think God has wished to add our testimony as Christians to the testimony of His Son in order to condemn those on earth who have rejected our testimony.

This testimony, when we come back with Jesus, will bring judgment to the whole world and will be carried out, I think, by angels.

Our testimony, added to that of Jesus, demonstrating his grace, is what God uses as a testimony against the nations of the earth who reject that grace. It is this testimony that will "trample the wicked," as I see it.
 

GaryA

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I don't believe so. Some Christians in history were aware of Paul's statement that "we are not destined for Wrath." And so, with the description of God's Wrath at the end of the age it is thought that the Church must be raptured immediately prior to this outpouring of Wrath.

But this is not necessarily so. Christians have gone through periods of God's wrath against their nations, and they were not viewed as being "under God's wrath." In other words, what some go through as martyrs or victims of "friendly fire" others go through as those who are being judged.
It is so merely for "historical" reasons (albeit, it has not occurred yet) - that is the order of events we are given in scripture. Please see:

http://mywebsite.us/BibleStudy/Order_Of_Events.html
 

Mem

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I believe we come back with Jesus in a unified witness of Christian righteousness. I think God has wished to add our testimony as Christians to the testimony of His Son in order to condemn those on earth who have rejected our testimony.

This testimony, when we come back with Jesus, will bring judgment to the whole world and will be carried out, I think, by angels.

Our testimony, added to that of Jesus, demonstrating his grace, is what God uses as a testimony against the nations of the earth who reject that grace. It is this testimony that will "trample the wicked," as I see it.
I believe they will be literal ash*(see ps) as such as the AC will be destroyed "by the brightness of His coming (needs citation)"

In regard to The Coming Judgment,

2 Peter 3:5But they deliberately overlook the fact that long ago by God's word the heavens existed, and the earth was formed out of water and by water, 6through whichb(footnote NA through whom) the world of that time perished in the flood. 7And by that same word, the present heavens and earth are reserved for fire, being kept for the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men.

*(these will be resurrected after the thousand years are over)
 

GaryA

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~ JESUS appears
~ Resurrection & Rapture occur
~ 'Wrath of God' poured out upon the earth (while the saints are all "gathered 'in the air' with Jesus"):
Vial 1
Vial 2
Vial 3
Vial 4
Vial 5
Vial 6
Armageddon
Vial 7


In 'event' terms, Armageddon is part of the 'Wrath of God'. It occurs towards the end of the things scripture says will happen during that time. (the 'Vials')




 

ewq1938

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The narrative covers both events and calls it 'the first resurrection,' where these two groups are 'gathered together.' And I don't have photographic memory of book and verse, but I do have a succinctly formed idea that because of the promise signified by the rainbow, this (final) cleansing will be by fire. I think my memory scan almost had the exact words or exact context where this is located so I'll retrieve it once that comes to me more distinctly. Possibly after a cup of coffee to allay this migraine that sip of Moscato brought me.

Christ used two examples of God's wrath. Noah and water, Lot and fire. At the second coming, neither is used to kill the wicked. Rev 19 speaks of a symbolic sword which slays the wicked.
 

ewq1938

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The Resurrection of the Church and the Rapture are the same event but not all believers are resurrected at the same time. Believers are resurrected each according to their own order/class/set/company.

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That's not what 1 Corinthians 15:23 says. It says Christ was first, then all the saved. No such thing as being resurrected according to their own order/class/set/company.
 

Mem

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Christ used two examples of God's wrath. Noah and water, Lot and fire. At the second coming, neither is used to kill the wicked. Rev 19 speaks of a symbolic sword which slays the wicked.
I located the passage where that idea was formed. Sometimes the text links, and sometimes it doesn't but I meant to tag you as promised but was distracted while composing #204 where I manually typed it into the post.
2 Peter 3:5-7
 

ewq1938

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I located the passage where that idea was formed. Sometimes the text links, and sometimes it doesn't but I meant to tag you as promised but was distracted while composing #204 where I manually typed it into the post.
2 Peter 3:5-7

2Pe 3:5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:
2Pe 3:6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:
2Pe 3:7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.


This is speaking of the GWTJ in Rev 20, where these ppl will be judged and cast into the LOF. It is not the second coming or how people die that day, which would be the first death while Peter is speaking of the second death.
 

Mem

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2Pe 3:5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:
2Pe 3:6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:
2Pe 3:7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.


This is speaking of the GWTJ in Rev 20, where these ppl will be judged and cast into the LOF. It is not the second coming or how people die that day, which would be the first death while Peter is speaking of the second death.
Rev 19 speaks of the marriage of the lamb which is immediately followed by the rider on the white horse of whom out of his mouth proceeds a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations of which the beast and the false prophet are included among the casualties, and the saints accompany him and this is when the beast and the false prophet get expedited to the lake of fire.
 
Aug 22, 2024
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Lol
You just posted that BEFORE the flood the wicked are taken.

You, unfortunately, have those postrib prisms to learn through.
It is embarrassing for you to declare, "before the flood half the world is wicked and half righteous, and so BEFORE the flood, Half of Earth entire population is raptured and destroyed?????"
Ok, so do you now see where false doctrine leads you to?
You are painting yourself into a corner that is totally impossible.
It just simply cannot happen. And it's because men have taught you that doctrine!
you don't get it out of the Bible. It ain't there at all!
Men have taught you that doctrine.
"Half the world is wicked and half righteous"
Then BEFORE the flood God raptures the wicked and destroys them.

It gets even worse for you, because
Jesus tells somebody, either the righteous or the wicked to watch and be ready.

so is he telling the righteous to get ready to stay?
Or is he telling the wicked to get ready to get raptured and destroyed?????

Whew.
I am glad I am not in that doctrinal train wreck.
Your theory says the same thing so what's your point?

It's not literal as I highly doubt there is ever only two people in a field sowing or harvesting. Jesus is using figurative language to describe a culling.
Nope
1) you need Jesus to not be able to count.
2) no matter how you reframe it, it CLEARLY says half are taken.
3) most all rapture verses are modified by postrib doctrinal sdherents.
....as you are demonstrating.
 
Aug 22, 2024
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That is incorrect, and you should know it. I've been a Postribber for many, many years, and I've always believed that when Christ comes again, he will have his angels seize the saints still alive in the midst of Armageddon, and glorify them in the clouds in an instant. At the same instant, we will return with Christ to set up God's heavenly Kingdom on earth in the form of a Millennial Kingdom, which is preliminary to the establishment of New Jerusalem permanently on earth.
Lol
Thanks for verify that in your doctrine those raptured in Matt 25, Matt 24, and 1 thes 4 never get to heaven but do a imaginary uturn in the sky.
 
Aug 22, 2024
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Matthew 24:

38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, 39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

The 'them' in verse 39 is absolutely most certainly referring to those who died in the flood.

However, the meaning of this is not something that directly fits into the taken-and-left issue.

It is not talking about separating those who died from the 8 who did not - the Ark did that.

It is simply referring to the flood waters killing them all. And, that is all it is referring to.

They were not "removed" from the earth. They were simply "taken away" by the flood waters - and died in the process...
The naoh example is entirely preflood analogy.
"THEY knew not"
They knew not was Before the flood.
Jesus said " before the flood"
Jesus is using the " before the flood" setting to illustrate his coming.
Those taken away "knew not" BEFORE THE FLOOD.
Noah gathered into the ark BEFORE the flood.
The "one taken /one left" declared by Jesus is BEFORE the flood.


Only pretrib doctrine keeps all the components in tack.

.....and includes Jesus command to watch and be ready in that "Before the flood" setting.

Other doctrines would have us believe the ones taken are supposedly wicked people. ( a total and utter impossibility)

That far fetched theory has the wicked being told to watch and be ready to be taken.
SMH.
such folly in the postrib rapture doctrine.
 

randyk

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Lol
Thanks for verify that in your doctrine those raptured in Matt 25, Matt 24, and 1 thes 4 never get to heaven but do a imaginary uturn in the sky.
Sarcasm noted.

For those more serious, I've explained elsewhere that this is not a U Turn. This is an instant glorification event that operates from heaven, where Christ is prepared to return and establish his Kingdom.

We instantly join him as he begins his descent, which is virtually timeless. It is a re-working of the world by means of angelic judgments. These judgments transform the world by putting millions to death who have served the Beast and by removing Satan, the cause of so much international trouble.

The dead in Christ are already with Christ in heaven. Those alive and remaining will *instantly* join them. I wouldn't call this a "caravan" or even a "trip to heaven." We are "snatched up" suddenly, in a timeless way, in a "twinkling of an eye."

Is that a journey? No. Pretrib depictions of human bodies floating up to the clouds is not a correct depiction.

The actual event will not require any time at all, since the "twinkling of an eye" is basically something more akin to light speed. It doesn't take even a second at light speed, 186,000 miles per second. From earth to high clouds is between 3,000 and 18,000 miles. So no--we aren't talking about a "trip" and as such, saying it is a "U Turn" is a joke.
 

rrcn

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Oct 15, 2023
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Maybe we should consider what the Bible says and let it give us understanding.

Rev 1:7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they [also] which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

Matt 16:27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.

Rev 22:12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward [is] with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.


At the time that Jesus comes back there will only be two groups of people living on the Earth, the saved and the lost.

The saved will say:
Isa 25:9 And it shall be said in that day, Lo, this [is] our God; we have waited for him, and he will save us: this [is] the LORD; we have waited for him, we will be glad and rejoice in his salvation.

and lost will say:
Rev 6:16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: 17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

The reward of the two group differ drastically according to their works.

Revelation 20: 4 - 6
Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and [I saw] the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received [his] mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This [is] . 6 Blessed the first resurrectionand holy [is] he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

The redeemed spend the thousand years with Jesus but those who were not resurrected did not live until the thousand years were finished. The living wicked will join them, the who are left are left dead. The state of the Earth during the thousand years is also described in the Bible:

Jer 25:33 And the slain of the LORD shall be at that day from [one] end of the earth even unto the [other] end of the earth: they shall not be lamented, neither gathered, nor buried; they shall be dung upon the ground.

No one to bury the wicked

Isa 24:19 - 22 The earth is utterly broken down, the earth is clean dissolved, the earth is moved exceedingly. 20 The earth shall reel to and fro like a drunkard, and shall be removed like a cottage; and the transgression thereof shall be heavy upon it; and it shall fall, and not rise again. 21 And it shall come to pass in that day, [that] the LORD shall punish the host of the high ones [that are] on high, and the kings of the earth upon the earth. 22 And they shall be gathered together, [as] prisoners are gathered in the pit, and shall be shut up in the prison, and after many days shall they be visited.

Here is what Jeremiah saw concerning the thousand years:

Jer 4:23 - 27 I beheld the earth, and, lo, [it was] without form, and void; and the heavens, and they [had] no light. 24 I beheld the mountains, and, lo, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly. 25 I beheld, and, lo, [there was] no man, and all the birds of the heavens were fled.26 I beheld, and, lo, the fruitful place [was] a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the LORD, [and] by his fierce anger. 27 For thus hath the LORD said, The whole land shall be desolate; yet will I not make a full end.

Rev 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
 

sawdust

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I believe this order is 1) Christ and 2) the Church at Christ's 2nd Coming. This isn't two separate resurrections of the Church, but rather, the resurrection of Christ after his earthly ministry and the resurrection of the Church at Christ's 2nd Coming.
When do the Millennium saints get resurrected? Or the pre-flood or post flood pre-Israel saints? What about Israel, when are they resurrected which is promised throughout the OT?
 

sawdust

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The rapture happens at the second coming. You are not getting it thus far.
Christ does not come to Earth at the Rapture. We meet Him in the air and He takes us (the Church) to where He is, just as He promised in John 14:3.

He comes at the Second Coming to judge the Earth and establish His rule on Earth, not to save His saints, although this will save Israel who will be under siege and in a hopeless position at the time.
 

sawdust

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That's not what 1 Corinthians 15:23 says. It says Christ was first, then all the saved. No such thing as being resurrected according to their own order/class/set/company.
It's exactly what it says. If it was simply Christ first then everyone else the Greek could say that but it doesn't. There would be no need to single out different orders, as in "own order" as we would all be the same order but we are not.

ASV
But each in his own order:
AMPC
But each in his own rank and turn
CEV
But we must each wait our turn
NIV
But each in turn
ESV
But each in his own order:

The Greek word translated "order" means rank or division.
https://biblehub.com/greek/5001.htm

Most translations say "in his own order". We are one family of God (all believers) but made up of different orders or companies just like one defence force but different divisions.