Mary Mother of Jesus: Sinless?

[mailmandan]

In Luke 1:46-47, we read - Then Mary said: “My soul magnifies the Lord, and my spirit rejoices in God my Savior! Why would Mary need a Savior if she was sinless? Romans 3:23 clearly states - ALL have sinned and come short of the glory of God. Notice it doesn't say all "expect Mary." Jesus Christ was the only exception. Hebrews 4:15 - For we do not have a high priest (Jesus Christ) who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but One who has been tempted in all things as we are, yet without sin. The Bible nowhere says that about Mary.

 

[Aerials1978]

You should be asking this question in a Catholic forum, if you want to get the other side of the argument.

I would, but I’m afraid it wouldn’t go very far as I would probably be banned for heresy.

 

[pottersclay]

So when they had performed all things according to the law of the Lord, they returned to Galilee, to their own city, Nazareth. And the Child grew and became strong in spirit, filled with wisdom; and the grace of God was upon Him. The Boy Jesus Amazes the Scholars His parents went to Jerusalem every year at the Feast of the Passover. And when He was twelve years old, they went up to Jerusalem according to the custom of the feast.

Mary was a practicing Jew so was Joseph.....if she was sinless why would she go?

Jesus said to her, “Woman, what does your concern have to do with Me? My hour has not yet come.” His mother said to the servants, “Whatever He says to you, do it.”

These were the last words recorded of Mary....to bad the Catholics missed it😏😏😏😏

 

[Whispered]

Thanks for posting. Would your contention be that because she was chosen by God that she had her sins removed for the sole purpose of giving birth to Jesus?

The Book of Luke chapter 1
I believe so yes. That's why we are told she was highly favored, or she has found favor with God. The Greek word for favored is, "Charis". She is favored by God, she is in the grace of God, is like unto what repentant sinners are due to the sacrifice of the son Mary was to bear for God.

χάρις (charis)
Strong: G5485
GK: G5921
pleasing show, charm; beauty, gracefulness; a pleasing circumstance, matter of approval, 1 Pet. 2:19, 20; kindly bearing, graciousness, Lk. 4:22; a beneficial opportunity, benefit, 2 Cor. 1:15; Eph. 4:29; a charitable act, generous gift, 1 Cor. 16:3; 2 Cor. 8:4, 6; an act of favor, Acts 25:3; favor, acceptance, Lk. 1:30, 52; Acts 2:47; 7:10, 46; free favor, free gift, grace, Jn. 1:14, 16, 17; Rom. 4:4, 16; 11:5, 6; Eph. 2:5, 8; 1 Pet. 3:7; free favor specially manifested by God towards man in the Gospel scheme, grace, Acts 15:11; Rom. 3:24; 5:15, 17, 20, 21; 6:1; 2 Cor. 4:15; a gracious provision, gracious scheme, grace, Rom. 6:14, 15; Heb. 2:9; 12:28; 13:9; gracious dealing from God, grace, Acts 14:26; 15:40; Rom. 1:7; 1 Cor. 1:4; 15:10; Gal. 1:15; a commission graciously devolved by God upon a human agent, Rom. 1:5; 12:3; 15:15; 1 Cor. 3:10; 2 Cor. 1:12; Gal. 2:9; Eph. 3:8; grace, graciously bestowed divine endowment or influence, Lk. 2:40; Acts 4:33; 11:23; Rom. 12:6; 2 Cor. 12:9; grace, Acts 13:43; Rom. 5:2; Gal. 5:4; 2 Pet. 3:18; an emotion correspondent to what is pleasing or kindly; sense of obligation, Lk. 17:9; a grateful frame of mind, 1 Cor. 10:30; thanks, Lk. 6:32, 33, 34; Rom. 6:17; 1 Cor. 15:57; χάριν or χάριτας καταθέσθαι, to oblige, gratify, Acts 24:27; 25:9
See everywhere charis appears in the New Testament via teknia.com.

 

[Whispered]

I would, but I’m afraid it wouldn’t go very far as I would probably be banned for heresy.

"Out you Protestant! Out with you!"
No need to take the risk. Mary being highly favored of God is the same as that which says, Mary is full of grace and the Lord is with thee. Boy was He, He knit Himself together in her womb so as to be born the son of man and the the son of God. Can't get more with thee than that.

 

[Whispered]

So when they had performed all things according to the law of the Lord, they returned to Galilee, to their own city, Nazareth. And the Child grew and became strong in spirit, filled with wisdom; and the grace of God was upon Him. The Boy Jesus Amazes the Scholars His parents went to Jerusalem every year at the Feast of the Passover. And when He was twelve years old, they went up to Jerusalem according to the custom of the feast.

Mary was a practicing Jew so was Joseph.....if she was sinless why would she go?

Jesus said to her, “Woman, what does your concern have to do with Me? My hour has not yet come.” His mother said to the servants, “Whatever He says to you, do it.”

These were the last words recorded of Mary....to bad the Catholics missed it😏😏😏😏

The Catholics didn't miss that did they? Is it not in their Bible?

Mary went to the Feast of Passover because it was incumbent on a Jew to do so. She was highly favored of God, in God's grace. Perhaps it is also because she kept the faith as a good Jew would.

 

[Aerials1978]

The Book of Luke chapter 1
I believe so yes. That's why we are told she was highly favored, or she has found favor with God. The Greek word for favored is, "Charis". She is favored by God, she is in the grace of God, is like unto what repentant sinners are due to the sacrifice of the son Mary was to bear for God.

χάρις (charis)
Strong: G5485
GK: G5921
pleasing show, charm; beauty, gracefulness; a pleasing circumstance, matter of approval, 1 Pet. 2:19, 20; kindly bearing, graciousness, Lk. 4:22; a beneficial opportunity, benefit, 2 Cor. 1:15; Eph. 4:29; a charitable act, generous gift, 1 Cor. 16:3; 2 Cor. 8:4, 6; an act of favor, Acts 25:3; favor, acceptance, Lk. 1:30, 52; Acts 2:47; 7:10, 46; free favor, free gift, grace, Jn. 1:14, 16, 17; Rom. 4:4, 16; 11:5, 6; Eph. 2:5, 8; 1 Pet. 3:7; free favor specially manifested by God towards man in the Gospel scheme, grace, Acts 15:11; Rom. 3:24; 5:15, 17, 20, 21; 6:1; 2 Cor. 4:15; a gracious provision, gracious scheme, grace, Rom. 6:14, 15; Heb. 2:9; 12:28; 13:9; gracious dealing from God, grace, Acts 14:26; 15:40; Rom. 1:7; 1 Cor. 1:4; 15:10; Gal. 1:15; a commission graciously devolved by God upon a human agent, Rom. 1:5; 12:3; 15:15; 1 Cor. 3:10; 2 Cor. 1:12; Gal. 2:9; Eph. 3:8; grace, graciously bestowed divine endowment or influence, Lk. 2:40; Acts 4:33; 11:23; Rom. 12:6; 2 Cor. 12:9; grace, Acts 13:43; Rom. 5:2; Gal. 5:4; 2 Pet. 3:18; an emotion correspondent to what is pleasing or kindly; sense of obligation, Lk. 17:9; a grateful frame of mind, 1 Cor. 10:30; thanks, Lk. 6:32, 33, 34; Rom. 6:17; 1 Cor. 15:57; χάριν or χάριτας καταθέσθαι, to oblige, gratify, Acts 24:27; 25:9
See everywhere charis appears in the New Testament via teknia.com.

I did reference the Koine Greek translation of that specific passage. Through out scripture God highly favored certain individuals: Noah, Abraham, Enoch, Isaiah, etc. None were claimed to be absolved(Catholic term) of any sins by that merit.

We also have to take Mary’s own words:
“and my spirit rejoices in God my Savior”
Also, the Bible states “No one is without sin”. If we take the Bible seriously, that would include Mary. We can’t make something true simply because we feel that should be.

 

[bojack]

I want to say to some folks ''leave Mary alone'' and bring honor your own mother like you're supposed to by the way you live your life .. I'm tickled to think Jesus had a somewhat normal and good Jewish childhood, a good kid with a loving normal mother/family before His rejections/troubles began ..

 

[Aerials1978]

I want to say to some folks ''leave Mary alone'' and bring honor your own mother like you're supposed to by the way you live your life .. I'm tickled to think Jesus had a somewhat normal and good Jewish childhood, a good kid with a loving normal mother/family before His rejections/troubles began ..

I agree with that post. Unfortunately a very entrenched institution that pretty controlled all of medieval Christendom elevated Mary to a divine status. Millions upon millions still believe this. Even some on this forum believe she was without sin which is Biblical incorrect.

 

[Whispered]

I did reference the Koine Greek translation of that specific passage. Through out scripture God highly favored certain individuals: Noah, Abraham, Enoch, Isaiah, etc. None were claimed to be absolved(Catholic term) of any sins by that merit.

We also have to take Mary’s own words:
“and my spirit rejoices in God my Savior”
Also, the Bible states “No one is without sin”. If we take the Bible seriously, that would include Mary. We can’t make something true simply because we feel that should be.

I do take the Bible seriously. That's why I would say, if Mary's sins weren't forgiven, then she was not highly favored by God. And that is contrary to scripture.
God makes the rules and can do as He likes. Mary was highly favored by God. If we let ourselves believe she was dead in her sins, then all that highly favored by God can mean is God liked her enough to have her carry Him into the world, so that the sinless son of man would be born by a sin filled woman. And so that Emmanuel could teach how to be saved from the sins a mother like His was and carried Him with.
See how that doesn't make any sense?

If we ignore the Greek meaning of favored, which includes grace, then we corrupt the whole message of Salvation. Including that the new covenant was created by God's grace shown toward the people of this world, so they should not perish in their sins, but have immortal life if they only believed in the Son He sent to take the sins of the world upon Himself.
If grace didn't wash Mary clean when she was deemed then fit to carry the Messiah in her womb, grace doesn't mean anything to the world that child was intended to save from the only thing that could vanquish sin. Jesus, being the propitiation for the sins of the world, and by God's grace.

I think we need to stop trying to "de-Catholocize" Mary, by thinking if we accept the Bible saying she was highly favored and in God's grace, we'll sound like the Catholics who refer to her as Mary, full of grace.

We have people who argue God created feats and laws that could not actually be honored , and then His law said when that was the case it was a death penalty offense. We have people who think God was inspiring His words to a people He knew as Christians, when that isn't true.
What the bleeping cheesepuffs is going on? Blasphemy and anti-christ doctrine needs exercise?

 

[Whispered]

I agree with that post. Unfortunately a very entrenched institution that pretty controlled all of medieval Christendom elevated Mary to a divine status. Millions upon millions still believe this. Even some on this forum believe she was without sin which is Biblical incorrect.

All you have to do is to prove Mary was a sinner. Which would mean you would have to produce scripture that tells us she was not highly favored and in God's grace. In which case, since God's grace is what set the whole new covenant of Salvation from sin in motion, you'd pretty much have to say the new testament and Gospel is a fiction.

And as a point of note, there is nothing wrong with respecting the woman God chose to deliver the Messiah to the world. Not to the degree Catholics do. But certainly Mary does not deserve the disrespect you show.
The errant teaching entrenched thus far in this issue is that which hopes to tell us, and have us believe, that God picked a woman dead in her sins, to deliver the child who was Messiah, the deliverer from sin.

Lastly, this is your thread and your poll, the results of which you made to be public. When you want only one idea to respond, and that which corresponds strictly with what you believe, this thread then becomes that which isn't actually open to a fair discourse. You've made up your mind and no thing, even scripture, will change it.
That kind of thread is called, bait.

Too bad.

 

[Aerials1978]

I do take the Bible seriously. That's why I would say, if Mary's sins weren't forgiven, then she was not highly favored by God. And that is contrary to scripture.
God makes the rules and can do as He likes. Mary was highly favored by God. If we let ourselves believe she was dead in her sins, then all that highly favored by God can mean is God liked her enough to have her carry Him into the world, so that the sinless son of man would be born by a sin filled woman. And so that Emmanuel could teach how to be saved from the sins a mother like His was and carried Him with.
See how that doesn't make any sense?

If we ignore the Greek meaning of favored, which includes grace, then we corrupt the whole message of Salvation. Including that the new covenant was created by God's grace shown toward the people of this world, so they should not perish in their sins, but have immortal life if they only believed in the Son He sent to take the sins of the world upon Himself.
If grace didn't wash Mary clean when she was deemed then fit to carry the Messiah in her womb, grace doesn't mean anything to the world that child was intended to save from the only thing that could vanquish sin. Jesus, being the propitiation for the sins of the world, and by God's grace.

I think we need to stop trying to "de-Catholocize" Mary, by thinking if we accept the Bible saying she was highly favored and in God's grace, we'll sound like the Catholics who refer to her as Mary, full of grace.

I have to look at the evidence which is provided. Nowhere is it indicated that she had her sins blotted out. It’s just not there.

And yes God can do whatever He wants, but one thing He doesn’t do is contradict Himself.
If God says no one is without sin, He means it. There isn’t a passage that says “no one is without sin, except(Fill in the blank).”

 

[Whispered]

I have to look at the evidence which is provided. Nowhere is it indicated that she had her sins blotted out. It’s just not there.

And yes God can do whatever He wants, but one thing He doesn’t do is contradict Himself.
If God says no one is without sin, He means it. There isn’t a passage that says “no one is without sin, except(Fill in the blank).”

Then your sins are not blotted out. Nor are mine. Nor are those of the members that are actually Christians, as we know there are those who are just here to have fun, on this site.
You can't have it both ways. Either you accept what the scripture tells you about Mary being highly favored, and that that means also that she was in God's grace, which should be obvious since she delivered into this human life/reality, the Savior that was God Himself. Which your argument either ignores, or blasphemes. Because to imagine Mary was full of sin and gave life to God, is to ignore that God said she was highly favored, and what highly favored actually meant.
If Mary was just a Jewish woman whom God picked to bring Him into the world to be the son of man, and you think that is what it means that she was highly favored, as for that purpose alone, and was full of sin, you're saying that God was born of a sinful mother, and was carried in a sinners womb.
You are hoping to degrade the meaning of grace.

Oh, and just an aside. You're saying God contradicted Himself, and that He's a liar.

Prove it!

 

[CharliRenee]

Sinless, um 100% no, as that would make her a deity. She was prone to human, fallen error like the rest of us. I think her desire and faith for the Lord's sufficiency is what stood her apart. I can only imagine how special it must have been to carry our Lord in her belly for 9 months. What makes her so incredibly beautiful and unique is the One she carried. I do not mean to say she wasn't an incredible child of God, just that what makes her shine is our King.

She is definitely one of the admirable ppl in history that I look forward to visiting with someday.

 

[Aerials1978]

I

All you have to do is to prove Mary was a sinner. Which would mean you would have to produce scripture that tells us she was not highly favored and in God's grace. In which case, since God's grace is what set the whole new covenant of Salvation from sin in motion, you'd pretty much have to say the new testament and Gospel is a fiction.

And as a point of note, there is nothing wrong with respecting the woman God chose to deliver the Messiah to the world. Not to the degree Catholics do. But certainly Mary does not deserve the disrespect you show.
The errant teaching entrenched thus far in this issue is that which hopes to tell us, and have us believe, that God picked a woman dead in her sins, to deliver the child who was Messiah, the deliverer from sin.

Lastly, this is your thread and your poll, the results of which you made to be public. When you want only one idea to respond, and that which corresponds strictly with what you believe, this thread then becomes that which isn't actually open to a fair discourse. You've made up your mind and no thing, even scripture, will change it.
That kind of thread is called, bait.

Too bad.

I already provided it:
10 As it is written:
“There is no one righteous, not even one;
Romans 3:10

And the thread wasn’t intended to be bait.
Also, the whole “You’re not understanding scripture” ploy is old, stale and flatly false. Just because we disagree on a certain passage, doesn’t mean I don’t know what it says. I read scripture to get truth, not to validate a belief or feeling I hold.

 

[Whispered]

I


I already provided it:
10 As it is written:
“There is no one righteous, not even one;
Romans 3:10

And the thread wasn’t intended to be bait.
Also, the whole “You’re not understanding scripture” ploy is old, stale and flatly false. Just because we disagree on a certain passage, doesn’t mean I don’t know what it says. I read scripture to get truth, not to validate a belief or feeling I hold.

No, you didn't prove it. You blasphemed God so as to validate your belief and feelings that not only was Mary a sinner, but that she was not highly favored, in God's grace, so as to deliver the Messiah.
Your doctrine is that God was born of a sinner, full of sin and dead in her trespasses.

God help you.

 

[Aerials1978]

Then your sins are not blotted out. Nor are mine. Nor are those of the members that are actually Christians, as we know there are those who are just here to have fun, on this site.
You can't have it both ways. Either you accept what the scripture tells you about Mary being highly favored, and that that means also that she was in God's grace, which should be obvious since she delivered into this human life/reality, the Savior that was God Himself. Which your argument either ignores, or blasphemes. Because to imagine Mary was full of sin and gave life to God, is to ignore that God said she was highly favored, and what highly favored actually meant.
If Mary was just a Jewish woman whom God picked to bring Him into the world to be the son of man, and you think that is what it means that she was highly favored, as for that purpose alone, and was full of sin, you're saying that God was born of a sinful mother, and was carried in a sinners womb.
You are hoping to degrade the meaning of grace.

Oh, and just an aside. You're saying God contradicted Himself, and that He's a liar.

Prove it!

Why are becoming hostel? Because I don’t agree with you? Yes, Jesus was born to a sinful women. Here’s another thing that might surprise you, Jesus was born into a body that was corruptible.

 

[Aerials1978]

No, you didn't prove it. You blasphemed God so as to validate your belief and feelings that not only was Mary a sinner, but that she was not highly favored, in God's grace, so as to deliver the Messiah.
Your doctrine is that God was born of a sinner, full of sin and dead in her trespasses.

God help you.

Now I’m a blasphemer because I provided scripture to support my position? That’s a new one to me.

 

[bojack]

I have to look at the evidence which is provided. Nowhere is it indicated that she had her sins blotted out. It’s just not there.

And yes God can do whatever He wants, but one thing He doesn’t do is contradict Himself.
If God says no one is without sin, He means it. There isn’t a passage that says “no one is without sin, except(Fill in the blank).”

Agree, imo she has been elevated to a status by some far beyond what I think Mary herself would want, not even close .. And we know today that ''woman with child'' is a biological contract between the mother and child to share the same body and nourishment but totally individual from one another in every other respect .. That a mother with AIDS does not transfer the disease to her child is a big clue, even different blood types .. Mary inherited sin from her father not her mother, Jesus is the only sinless man ever , through His Father ..

 

[CharliRenee]

Her being chosen to carry and deliver our King demonstrates her being highly favored and I imagine counted as righteous because she had faith which made His grace sufficient for her. Hmmmm, this thread and the interactions have me pondering...

I reckon Job, Moses, Daniel, Joseph, and Abraham, to name a few, all share their unique quality with Mary, they all genuinely leaned in and on the same I AM.

I am glad and honored that He uses both genders for His will.