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Lafftur

Lafftur

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This is a VERY tough question - it will require some digging in the scriptures:

"How" did the Israelites camp while in the wilderness?

(Hint: who camped on the north? south? west? east? Who camped around the ark of the covenant in the center? And, who camped with the ark of the covenant?)

Why do you suppose God instructed them to camp the way they did?
 
A

Adstar

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Lafftur said:
This is a VERY tough question - it will require some digging in the scriptures:

"How" did the Israelites camp while in the wilderness?

(Hint: who camped on the north? south? west? east? Who camped around the ark of the covenant in the center? And, who camped with the ark of the covenant?)

Why do you suppose God instructed them to camp the way they did?
Click to expand...
I believed they camped in the way they did to form a Cross on the ground..
God was creating a symbol. Pointing to a future event..

In the center of the camp was the tent temple and the Levites camped there..

These tribes were ordered by God to camp on the east side of the temple,, Judah, Issachar and Zebulon
The total number of men of fighting age in these 3 tribes at the time was 186,400 men.. longest arm of the cross.. Bottom

The tribes that where ordered to camp on the south side of the camp where Ruben, Simeon and Gad
The total number of men of fighting age in these 3 tribes at the time was 151,450 men .. Side arm of the cross..

The tribes ordered to camp on the western side of the temple where Ephraim, Manasseh and Benjamin
The total number of men of fighting age in these 3 tribes at the time was 108,100 Shortest arm of the cross.. Top

The tribes ordered to camp on the north side of the temple where Dan, Asher and Naphtali
The total number of men of fighting age in these 3 tribes at the time was 157,600.. Side arm of the cross..

As a side note.. I see Dan as the top part of the lower arm of the cross.. This was around the area of the heart of Jesus which was pierced. The tribe of Dan was removed from the tribes of Israel because of their sin later in history.. So the tribe of Dan was extinguished symbolic maybe of the sword that pierced Jesus while he was on the cross..
 
Lafftur

Lafftur

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Lafftur said:
This is a VERY tough question - it will require some digging in the scriptures:

"How" did the Israelites camp while in the wilderness?

(Hint: who camped on the north? south? west? east? Who camped around the ark of the covenant in the center? And, who camped with the ark of the covenant?)

Why do you suppose God instructed them to camp the way they did?
Click to expand...
Adstar said:
I believed they camped in the way they did to form a Cross on the ground..
God was creating a symbol. Pointing to a future event..

In the center of the camp was the tent temple and the Levites camped there..

These tribes were ordered by God to camp on the east side of the temple,, Judah, Issachar and Zebulon
The total number of men of fighting age in these 3 tribes at the time was 186,400 men.. longest arm of the cross.. Bottom

The tribes that where ordered to camp on the south side of the camp where Ruben, Simeon and Gad
The total number of men of fighting age in these 3 tribes at the time was 151,450 men .. Side arm of the cross..

The tribes ordered to camp on the western side of the temple where Ephraim, Manasseh and Benjamin
The total number of men of fighting age in these 3 tribes at the time was 108,100 Shortest arm of the cross.. Top

The tribes ordered to camp on the north side of the temple where Dan, Asher and Naphtali
The total number of men of fighting age in these 3 tribes at the time was 157,600.. Side arm of the cross..

As a side note.. I see Dan as the top part of the lower arm of the cross.. This was around the area of the heart of Jesus which was pierced. The tribe of Dan was removed from the tribes of Israel because of their sin later in history.. So the tribe of Dan was extinguished symbolic maybe of the sword that pierced Jesus while he was on the cross..
Click to expand...




Hello Adstar,

You are correct! Many do believe it looked like a cross and the numbers could make a cross. However, what if they actually camped in more of a circle?

The tribes of Israel had banners which were a Lion (East), Ox (West), Man (South) and Eagle (North).


LION - East: Judah, Issachar, Zebulon
OX - West: Ephraim, Manasseh, Benjamin
MAN - South: Reuben, Simeon, Gad
EAGLE - North: Dan, Asher, Naphtali

If they camped in more of a circle, the Tabernacle in the center with the Levites and Moses/Aaron & sons around the Tabernacle, then all 12 tribes around the Levites. Would it appear more as a "circle within a circle" that Ezekiel described and John described in Revelation?

Could it be the very way they camped was a replica of the Throne Room?


Everywhere the Spirit would go, the 4 living creatures would follow........................
 
Lafftur

Lafftur

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Deade said:
Question: What does Lamentations represent?

View attachment 189750
Click to expand...
Hello Deade,

Great question, really got me thinking................:unsure:

You didn't ask what it "means," instead you asked what it "represents."

My guess would be sorrow over sin and being separated from God, but I need to really grieve over the fact that my sin hurt God and caused Him pain - that's when I know I do love God because it becomes no longer "my pain" over "my sin" but my focus and awareness should be on God - His sorrow over my sin.
 
Deade

Deade

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Lafftur said:
Hello Deade,

Great question, really got me thinking................:unsure:

You didn't ask what it "means," instead you asked what it "represents."

My guess would be sorrow over sin and being separated from God, but I need to really grieve over the fact that my sin hurt God and caused Him pain - that's when I know I do love God because it becomes no longer "my pain" over "my sin" but my focus and awareness should be on God - His sorrow over my sin.
Click to expand...
Yes Sharon, you probably figured out there is no right or wrong answer to this. We could probably pull out different perspectives for months. Isn't it great to have God's word to meditate on? (y)
 
Lafftur

Lafftur

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Deade said:
Yes Sharon, you probably figured out there is no right or wrong answer to this. We could probably pull out different perspectives for months. Isn't it great to have God's word to meditate on? (y)
Click to expand...
Yes indeed, Deade! :) God's Word is a daily banquet that has no end - just want to enjoy it all day long! :love:
 
CharliRenee

CharliRenee

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How are we to value the cross or our redemption and salvation, without coming to deep lamenting over the destructive wickedness of our carnal conditions,
of our minds and hearts, without them.

The greater the redemption, the greater the salvation, imho.
 
A

Adstar

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Lafftur said:



Hello Adstar,

You are correct! Many do believe it looked like a cross and the numbers could make a cross. However, what if they actually camped in more of a circle?

The tribes of Israel had banners which were a Lion (East), Ox (West), Man (South) and Eagle (North).


LION - East: Judah, Issachar, Zebulon
OX - West: Ephraim, Manasseh, Benjamin
MAN - South: Reuben, Simeon, Gad
EAGLE - North: Dan, Asher, Naphtali

If they camped in more of a circle, the Tabernacle in the center with the Levites and Moses/Aaron & sons around the Tabernacle, then all 12 tribes around the Levites. Would it appear more as a "circle within a circle" that Ezekiel described and John described in Revelation?

Could it be the very way they camped was a replica of the Throne Room?


Everywhere the Spirit would go, the 4 living creatures would follow........................
Click to expand...
The throne of God is made up of Cherub Angels .. Cherubs are half human like and half beast like.. The 4 Cherubs where one on each side like the way the tribes of Israel where set up in the wilderness.. I am sure God did it on purpose to mimick his throne..

Also as a side not.. Lucifer who became satan was also part of the throne of God He was a winged cherub angel who formed a cover with his wings over the throne.. This was before he became proud and wanted to be the equal of God..
 
CharliRenee

CharliRenee

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We know of heaven messengers, but a cherubim is a different class of angel, right.... I liked this question, and couldn't come up with specific names, little is know of them....

Cheating (at least I'm being honest, that is good, right? Lol) I found this about them...

The cherubim were winged creatures that appear in a number of places in Scripture. They guarded the Garden of Eden, their form was fashioned on the Ark of the Covenant, and two large carved cherubim were placed in the temple. As to their exact identity and appearance, no one knows. It is not certain that they are the living creatures identified in Ezekiel 1 or Revelation 4. Much about them still remains a mystery.

Lucifer was described as a cherubim, yes?
 
Deade

Deade

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Lafftur said:
Another great question! I can only think of three that their names are given - Lucifer, Michael and Gabriel. :)
Click to expand...
Correct! There are only three archangels or covering cherubs. One has fallen, the other two still cover God's universe by directing all other angels. That is why we call God: Lord of Hosts (army). Their coverage is pictured by the wings over the Ark of the Covenant mercy seat. :D
 
Deade

Deade

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CharliRenee said:
We know of heaven messengers, but a cherubim is a different class of angel, right.... I liked this question, and couldn't come up with specific names, little is know of them....

Cheating (at least I'm being honest, that is good, right? Lol) I found this about them...

The cherubim were winged creatures that appear in a number of places in Scripture. They guarded the Garden of Eden, their form was fashioned on the Ark of the Covenant, and two large carved cherubim were placed in the temple. As to their exact identity and appearance, no one knows. It is not certain that they are the living creatures identified in Ezekiel 1 or Revelation 4. Much about them still remains a mystery.

Lucifer was described as a cherubim, yes?
Click to expand...
Yes, Lucifer (morning light) was head honcho until he rebelled and became Satan (adversary). Although they have looks and beauty, they are spirits that normally are invisible to us.

Col. 1:16 "For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him."

Everything made in our universe was made by the unseen (spirits).

Hebrews 11:3: “Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.”

1 Timothy 1:17: “ Now unto the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only wise God, be honour and glory for ever and ever. Amen.” :cool:
 
CharliRenee

CharliRenee

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Deade said:
Correct! There are only three archangels or covering cherubs. One has fallen, the other two still cover God's universe by directing all other angels. That is why we call God: Lord of Hosts (army). Their coverage is pictured by the wings over the Ark of the Covenant mercy seat. :D
Click to expand...
Were Michael and Gabriel specifically described as Cheribums?
 
Lafftur

Lafftur

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CharliRenee said:
Were Michael and Gabriel specifically described as Cheribums?
Click to expand...
Hi CharliRenee,

From scripture, it appears Michael is an archangel, Gabriel stands in the presence of God, the 4 living creatures were cherubims and there are also what is called seraphims. Also, Lucifer is referred to as "son of the morning."

Hope this helped. :)

Jude 9
9 Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.

Luke 1:19
19 And the angel answering said unto him, I am Gabriel, that stand in the presence of God; and am sent to speak unto thee, and to shew thee these glad tidings.

Ezekiel 10
Then I looked, and, behold, in the firmament that was above the head of the cherubims there appeared over them as it were a sapphire stone, as the appearance of the likeness of a throne. And he spake unto the man clothed with linen, and said, Go in between the wheels, even under the cherub, and fill thine hand with coals of fire from between the cherubims, and scatter them over the city. And he went in in my sight. Now the cherubims stood on the right side of the house, when the man went in; and the cloud filled the inner court. ...


Isaiah 6
1 In the year that king Uzziah died I saw also the Lord sitting upon a throne, high and lifted up, and his train filled the temple.

2 Above it stood the seraphims: each one had six wings; with twain he covered his face, and with twain he covered his feet, and with twain he did fly.

3 And one cried unto another, and said, Holy, holy, holy, is the Lord of hosts: the whole earth is full of his glory.

4 And the posts of the door moved at the voice of him that cried, and the house was filled with smoke.

5 Then said I, Woe is me! for I am undone; because I am a man of unclean lips, and I dwell in the midst of a people of unclean lips: for mine eyes have seen the King, the Lord of hosts.

6 Then flew one of the seraphims unto me, having a live coal in his hand, which he had taken with the tongs from off the altar:

7 And he laid it upon my mouth, and said, Lo, this hath touched thy lips; and thine iniquity is taken away, and thy sin purged.

8 Also I heard the voice of the Lord, saying, Whom shall I send, and who will go for us? Then said I, Here am I; send me.

Isaiah 14:12
How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
 
Lafftur

Lafftur

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Question:

Gabriel seems to be God's personal messenger. According to scripture, name the two people to whom Gabriel was sent.
 
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