Less well-known Rapture verses. The case for the Rapture is compelling.

[Absolutely]

Christ disagrees:

Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

Immediately when the Great Tribulation ends will Christ return and Christ returns at the 7th trump.

The rapture has the bride going to heaven for the marriage and supper... immediately, as is depicted in mat 25.
And in the last supper dialogue.

It is so poorly thought out to try and make the second coming into the rapture verses.

Extremely poor exegesis.

 

[Scribe]

Hi scribe,
This is 'wasted breath'.
You've made the assumption that I don't know what the great tribulation or the time of Jacob's trouble is and why it is
different from other trials and persecutions.

I do understand that. It in no way nullifies my point.

I was not trying to correct you personally. I was just contributing to the conversation. I am no expert on the Great Tribulation. I am simply pointing out that whatever this time is in Revelation it is the wrath of God upon man prior to the Lake of Fire and that believers will not endure these outpourings of judgment.

Most people talking about this subject call these outpourings of judgments as the same as the Great Tribulation. I suppose we have difference of opinions being presented as to what is the Great Tribulation and what are all of these judgments being poured out on the earth in a series that are clearly the wrath of God prior to the ultimate Lake of Fire.

The promises that we are to be saved from the wrath to come is most likely referring to these judgments first and of course includes the final disposition of all the wicked the Lake of Fire.

I actually assume that you know this and I am not making the assumption that you do not. If you disagreed with me I would be Shocked!!! Horrified!!! I probably would skip lunch!!!

 

[cv5]

2 - 1 - 10


Show me.

Nowhere in the entire Bible does God call, define, or label the 'Great Tribulation' as the 'Wrath of God'.

https://www.blueletterbible.org/search/search.cfm?Criteria=wrath&t=KJV#s=s_primary_66_1

Yes that is correct the term wrath is used 13 times in Revelation.

There is only one time where it is specified as Satan's wrath. Ahwahtukee is correct in stating that Satan's wrath is anger toward God for casting him down to the earth and directed at the Israel and the tribulation saints.

It is stated eight times explicitly as the wrath of God. Four times it is implied as the wrath of God nevertheless perfectly clear.

 

[Runningman]

The Bible places the rapture after the great tribulation at the return of Christ. The elect will be gathered from the Earth to the heavens by Jesus and His angels.

Matthew 24:29-31
29Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: 30And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Mark 13:24-27
24But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, 25And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken. 26And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory. 27And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.

 

[Scribe]

The Bible places the rapture after the great tribulation at the return of Christ. The elect will be gathered from the Earth to the heavens by Jesus and His angels.

Matthew 24:29-31
29Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: 30And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Mark 13:24-27
24But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, 25And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken. 26And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory. 27And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.

 

[KingdomBrat]

The Bible places the rapture after the great tribulation at the return of Christ. The elect will be gathered from the Earth to the heavens by Jesus and His angels.

Matthew 24:29-31
29Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: 30And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Mark 13:24-27
24But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, 25And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken. 26And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory. 27And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.

I also enjoy Luke's version to Matthew 24
22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.
23 But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people.
24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.
25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.
27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.

Luke explains the end of the Gentiles is during the Great Tribulation. And it makes it clear there is nothing being discussed about pre or mid [Rapture].

 

[Runningman]

I also enjoy Luke's version to Matthew 24
22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.
23 But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people.
24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.
25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.
27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.

Luke explains the end of the Gentiles is during the Great Tribulation. And it makes it clear there is nothing being discussed about pre or mid [Rapture].

Yes, precisely. A deep study of the Olivet Discourse in Matt 24 & 25, Mark 13, and Luke 21 describe what the "tribulation of those days" is referring to, being clear to place the return of Christ and the gathering of the elect after the tribulation.

Post-trib is the only way I've seen the rapture doctrine mesh with with the numerous other scriptures about it.

 

[Absolutely]

It never fails to amaze me that a thread about the Rapture does not include the actual verses that speak of the Rapture and when it happens.


Rapture is an English word that comes from a Greek word which is Harpazo. Here is the Harpazo/Rapture and when it happens:


1Th 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
1Th 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

Context is the second coming.

1Th 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

Context is the second coming.

1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

This is the second coming and the resurrection of the dead in Christ.


1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.


This is the rapture and it happens after the second coming of Christ which only happens once the great tribulation has ended. The Greek word for rapture is harpazo and that's the term used by Paul in verse 17.

Lol
You left out so many verses on the rapture

 

[Absolutely]

I also enjoy Luke's version to Matthew 24
22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.
23 But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people.
24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.
25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.
27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.

Luke explains the end of the Gentiles is during the Great Tribulation. And it makes it clear there is nothing being discussed about pre or mid [Rapture].

....and trying to make Jesus return on white horses the exact same thing as the rapture verses is error and poor exegesis

 

[soberxp]

Check an online concordance and find out how many times the term "wrath" is used in the book of Revelation.

If I am not mistaken that term is used 13 times.
One time as wrath of the Lamb.
One time as the wrath of Satan
Eleven times as the wrath of God

"Some" don't call the GT the "wrath of God".......God calls the GT "wrath of God".

IMO, nobody knows the day or the hour because the seminal transaction that initiates the 7 year tribulation period actually occurs in heaven, when the Lamb takes the scroll from the Hand of The Father. And this at the express discretionary time appointed and permitted ONLY by God the Father Himself. Which of course matches a Jewish wedding ceremony perfectly. It is the father of the groom who decides that the house is complete and THEN gives permission for the son to retrieve his dearly beloved betrothed.

It may well be that in Their own divine Sovereign discretion that the Son still...EVEN NOW does not know the day or the hour. Jesus made it perfectly clear that during His earthly sojourn that He Himself did not know the day or the hour. But of course nobody knows for sure.

Matt 24:36
No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.

I already knew The day and hours, 2008.10.10 Friday, AM12:00.

I have seen Jesus coming from cloud with angles,also I have seen Firearms of ancient China.
I think maybe only I can saw him at that time, because God gives the unbelievers a wrong heart.
2 Thess 2:11
And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

2 Thess 1:6-8
in flaming fire taking vengeance

But I think "taking vengeance" is not literal.
2 Thess 3:14
And if any man obey not our word by this epistle, note that man, and have no company with him, that he may be ashamed.
2 Thess 3:15 Yet count him not as an enemy, but admonish him as a brother.

 

[KingdomBrat]

....and trying to make Jesus return on white horses the exact same thing as the rapture verses is error and poor exegesis

I will stick with what Luke is claiming here.

 

[Absolutely]

The Bible places the rapture after the great tribulation at the return of Christ. The elect will be gathered from the Earth to the heavens by Jesus and His angels.

Matthew 24:29-31
29Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: 30And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Mark 13:24-27
24But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, 25And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken. 26And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory. 27And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.

Read rev 14
The dead rise Before Rev 14.
1 thes 4 says so.

Rev 14 totally destroys any possibility of a postrib rapture.

THE DEAD RISE FIRST.....NOT AFTER rev 14
You have them rising AFTER.

 

[Absolutely]

I will stick with what Luke is claiming here.

..ignoring verses works for you?

I also stick to those 2 references.

They fit like a glove.

I am not into ignoring verses

 

[Absolutely]

I will stick with what Luke is claiming here.

Amen
My strategy as well

 

[KingdomBrat]

..ignoring verses works for you?

I also stick to those 2 references.

They fit like a glove.

I am not into ignoring verses

I prefer the Words of Christ over anyone else.

 

[Absolutely]

Also, I know those who believe in Pre/Mid Trib feel good about missing out on the [wrath]. But until we're caught away, we still can be martyrs.

The innumerable number before the throne are martyred AFTER the rapture.

They are the 5 foolish virgins of mat 25.

Innumerable points to billions beheaded.

 

[Absolutely]

I prefer the Words of Christ over anyone else.

Amen
Me too.
Note mat 25, and the last supper dialogue.

Postribs NEVER go there.

 

[Absolutely]

I prefer the Words of Christ over anyone else.

Also check into the 2 escape verses

AHEM....by Jesus

I will wager you never looked at or heard of them correct ?

 

[KingdomBrat]

The innumerable number before the throne are martyred AFTER the rapture.

They are the 5 foolish virgins of mat 25.

Innumerable points to billions beheaded.

lol there are no direct time tables for when people are beheaded. People are being beheaded today for Believing.

 

[1ofthem]

The innumerable number before the throne are martyred AFTER the rapture.

They are the 5 foolish virgins of mat 25.

Innumerable points to billions beheaded.

Who are the ones that are being beheaded during the tribulation, if all the Christians are raptured away before the tribulation?

Why do you think the 5 foolish made it?

From what I've read, he said he didn't even know them.