Less well-known Rapture verses. The case for the Rapture is compelling.

[TheDivineWatermark]

^

FreeGrace2 said:
You see, "DotL" begins with the Trib. And v.2 explains that the Trib has NOT occurred yet.

@FreeGrace2 , do you believe the "DOTL" begins with the Trib, or not?

So, find the post # where you claim I said the DofL begins with the Trib. And I will apologize.

Are you thinking that "DofL" is something different from the "DOTL"?

Is that your reasoning?




We're talking about "the day of the Lord," right?

 

[FreeGrace2]

^

@FreeGrace2 , do you believe the "DOTL" begins with the Trib, or not?

Are you thinking that "DofL" is something different from the "DOTL"?

Is that your reasoning?

Have you ever heard of TYPO? Maybe not.

We're talking about "the day of the Lord," right?

I am. I'm not sure what you are talking about. You never specify what you are talking about.

 

[Absolutely]

You gave me quite a laugh with this response considering you stated the following to a previous post by ChoirLoft that a future rapture is not even recorded in the word:

I kinda got a kick out of it too.
Lol

 

[Absolutely]

Absolutely keep repeating often and abundantly. It can only help penetrate the fog of unbelief.

I post because i believe a voice needs to be heard from the bride / groom perspective

A game changer

If anyone actually listens it is a bonus

Lol

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

Have you ever heard of TYPO? Maybe not.

^

@FreeGrace2 , do you believe the "DOTL" begins with the Trib, or not?

@FreeGrace2 , do you believe the "DOTL" begins with the Trib, or not?

FreeGrace2 said:

You see, "DotL" begins with the Trib. And v.2 explains that the Trib has NOT occurred yet.

You DO believe the "DOTL" begins with the Trib.


Got it.

 

[Absolutely]

Still waiting for a verse pointing to a postrib rapture

Any takers?

 

[Absolutely]

Lol

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

One of the ways Satan gets his foot in the door is with 9 truths with 1 very crafty life. In other words, once trust is obtained he uses it as leverage to manipulate and deceive.

This is why it is more important than ever to know our Biblical truths and to shut down false doctrines when they pop up no matter how long it takes.

Paul, in 2Th2:2-3 is not conveying that "before Jesus can return, two things must happen *first*"... That's the way this passage has been commonly twisted into [its supposedly] saying, but based on flawed "definitions," disregard for "grammar" issues, jumping back over and past v.2 (ignoring it, basically) in order to ascertain what v.3a is speaking of, and several other faulty things... but it is not conveying that.


Ponder deeply what is being conveyed in v.2... because a lot hinges on "how" one reads this verse, whether correctly, or incorrectly.

 

[Runningman]

Paul, in 2Th2:2-3 is not conveying that "before Jesus can return, two things must happen *first*"... That's the way this passage has been commonly twisted into [its supposedly] saying, but based on flawed "definitions," disregard for "grammar" issues, jumping back over and past v.2 (ignoring it, basically) in order to ascertain what v.3a is speaking of, and several other faulty things... but it is not conveying that.


Ponder deeply what is being conveyed in v.2... because a lot hinges on "how" one reads this verse, whether correctly, or incorrectly.

Either way you interpret the word apostasia, whether a departure of the church in a pre-trib rapture, or a falling away of the church in deserting the truth, the context is that it doesn't happen until the man of sin is revealed also.

Later in in 2 Thessalonians 2, the man of sin is destroyed by Jesus when He returns. The gathering of the church occurs when Jesus returns. That means the pre-trib rapture interpretation can be confidently disregarded as a coherent interpretation.

Our gathering to Christ doesn't occur until He returns. Christ does not return until after the man of sin is already in the temple of God saying that He is God. Jesus comes and marks the end of the great tribulation and raptures the church and destroys the man of sin.

It's all in 2 Thessalonians 2 which makes an indisputable case for a post-trib rapture.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

Our gathering to Christ doesn't occur until He returns.

The text is not conveying that.

And only by mis-interpreting v.2 (among other issues) can one come to that wrong conclusion.



Paul is not conveying that "our gathering doesn't occur until He returns,"... RATHER, the DOTL [from v.2] will not be present, if not shall have come THE Departure FIRST...

...a completely different thought being conveyed, from that which you suggest.







v.2 - "...[purporting] that the day of the Lord IS PRESENT / ALREADY HERE [PERFECT INDICATIVE]"

NOT "[purporting] that JESUS IS HERE" / "[purporting] that HIS SECOND COMING IS HERE"... No. They were NOT purporting *that*

 

[Runningman]

The text is not conveying that.

And only by mis-interpreting v.2 (among other issues) can one come to that wrong conclusion.



Paul is not conveying that "our gathering doesn't occur until He returns,"... RATHER, the DOTL [from v.2] will not be present, if not shall have come THE Departure FIRST...

...a completely different thought being conveyed, from that which you suggest.







v.2 - "...[purporting] that the day of the Lord IS PRESENT / ALREADY HERE [PERFECT INDICATIVE]"

NOT "[purporting] that JESUS IS HERE" / "[purporting] that HIS SECOND COMING IS HERE"... No. They were NOT purporting *that*

Then if I understand you correctly, Jesus returns with those who sleep, resurrects them, then raptures the resurrected and the church?

Then leaves while the great tribulation occurs then comes back again later and destroys the anti-Christ?

That's the only way I can even begin to understand the pre-tribulation rapture. In even playing this thought experiment, I'm having to disregard numerous other scriptures that stand in contrast to multiple returns of Christ, the resurrection of the dead before the great tribulation, and the rapture before the great tribulation.

I don't understand how it's possible to believe in pre-trib. There's just way too many holes in.

The Bible would need to just say Jesus returns before the great tribulation to perform the first resurrection and rapture. It simply doesn't say that anywhere.

 

[Absolutely]

Then if I understand you correctly, Jesus returns with those who sleep, resurrects them, then raptures the resurrected and the church?

Then leaves while the great tribulation occurs then comes back again later and destroys the anti-Christ?

That's the only way I can even begin to understand the pre-tribulation rapture. In even playing this thought experiment, I'm having to disregard numerous other scriptures that stand in contrast to multiple returns of Christ, the resurrection of the dead before the great tribulation, and the rapture before the great tribulation.

I don't understand how it's possible to believe in pre-trib. There's just way too many holes in.

The Bible would need to just say Jesus returns before the great tribulation to perform the first resurrection and rapture. It simply doesn't say that anywhere.

Rev 3
10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.
Luke 21:36
Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

Postribs claim the opposite.

"Escape is evil"

"God never wants us to escape."

"Lot was never delivered before judgement. He stayed in sodom. Then was removed after sodom burned to the ground"

Go ahead and make your claim about "not one verse".

When the rapture happens it will be too late to repent. The only avenue is to be martyred.

Mat 25
10 And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut.

11 Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us.

12 But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not.

13 Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.

All rapture verses are peacetime with normal activities.
No way is the rapture postrib

You stand there with the WORD OF GOD testifying against you.

Rev 19

9 And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God.

10 And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.

11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.

12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.

13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.

14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

100% pretrib rapture.

 

[Absolutely]

"""I don't understand how it's possible to believe in pre-trib. There's just way too many holes in."""

Acts 1
9 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.

10 And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;

11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven

Lets apply your rule here.

If Jesus comes postrib then that verse would have said so.

It would have Jesus on a white horse with millions of saints on horses blackening the sky. It would have Jesus LEAVING EARTH in that LIKENESS with a warrior dynamic, ON A HORSE, CONQUORING.

YOU HAVE NO CASE AT ALL.

Now pretrib model FITS EVERY RAPTURE VERSE LIKE A GLOVE.

The billboard reads pretrib rapture

That billboard is now in your front yard.

 

[Evmur]

"""I don't understand how it's possible to believe in pre-trib. There's just way too many holes in."""

Acts 1
9 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.

10 And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;

11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven

Lets apply your rule here.

If Jesus comes postrib then that verse would have said so.

It would have Jesus on a white horse with millions of saints on horses blackening the sky. It would have Jesus LEAVING EARTH in that LIKENESS with a warrior dynamic, ON A HORSE, CONQUORING.

YOU HAVE NO CASE AT ALL.

Now pretrib model FITS EVERY RAPTURE VERSE LIKE A GLOVE.

The billboard reads pretrib rapture

That billboard is now in your front yard.

... except Jesus said "after the tribulation of those days ..."

 

[ChoirLoft]

Are you saying that you "do not believe the rapture" ??

I was waiting for somebody to ask that question.

The rapture is a doctrine of the RCC. Much there is about it that is absolutely unBiblical in terms of context.....such as the Tribulation idea that goes with it.

The cleverness of satanic doctrine is that it's based upon half-truths. There is always a nugget of it that is correct and that can be traced back to physical experience or spiritual guidance of God's Word. It wouldn't be popular with illiterate Christians if it wasn't.

Context Context Context

The rapture is escapist doctrine, context isn't. Context teaches us God will be WITH US in times of trouble. There is NEVER an instance in the Bible where God provides some fantastic form of escape. Did He not provide a way through the Red Sea when the Hebrews were challenged by Pharaoh's army? Did He not walk in the midst of fire with Shadrach, Meshack and Abednego? Where then does the idea of escape from trouble come from? It comes from the devil - the father of all lies and deception.

The Bible promises that Jesus will return one day. It even provides some hints at the season in which this will happen. If all the saints were evacuated, then there would be no need for a return - two, three or four times (depending upon which rapture heresy one admires).

The walk of faith is a walk THROUGH trouble with Christ holding us close and walking with us. This is the nature and essence of faith and confidence in our savior - not escapist lies. Faith encourages courage. Rapture encourages cowardice in the face of trouble.

Yes, Jesus will return one day. I believe it.

I do not subscribe to the rapture/tribulation theory and all that it encompasses - especially anti-Semitic forms of it.

Jew hating Christians like to think they'll escape some global madness that will be thrust upon Jews to punish them and force them into compliance with the church. Context of the Bible insists that believers in Christ become Jews (Romans 2:29). The saved do NOT become members of a church. Church membership does not save, neither is it a ticket to a Star Trek beam out of faithless cowards. Yet the RCC root of FUTURISM, of which rapture/tribulation is a part, is basically anti-Semitic in nature. Which part of that head lopping doctrine is appealing to Jews? None of it. It is as disgusting to any thinking gentile as to anyone born Jewish (or born-again Jewish).

Hope this answers your question.

that's me, hollering from the choir loft...

 

[Runningman]

Rev 3
10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.
Luke 21:36
Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

Postribs claim the opposite.

"Escape is evil"

"God never wants us to escape."

"Lot was never delivered before judgement. He stayed in sodom. Then was removed after sodom burned to the ground"

Go ahead and make your claim about "not one verse".

When the rapture happens it will be too late to repent. The only avenue is to be martyred.

Mat 25
10 And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut.

11 Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us.

12 But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not.

13 Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.

All rapture verses are peacetime with normal activities.
No way is the rapture postrib

You stand there with the WORD OF GOD testifying against you.

Rev 19

9 And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God.

10 And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.

11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.

12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.

13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.

14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

100% pretrib rapture.

Jesus said He returns "after the tribulation of those days" to gather His elect. He's the authority on this topic since He said it. There's no other acceptable placement of His return other than when He said it would be.

 

[Truth7t7]

Then if I understand you correctly, Jesus returns with those who sleep, resurrects them, then raptures the resurrected and the church?

Then leaves while the great tribulation occurs then comes back again later and destroys the anti-Christ?

That's the only way I can even begin to understand the pre-tribulation rapture. In even playing this thought experiment, I'm having to disregard numerous other scriptures that stand in contrast to multiple returns of Christ, the resurrection of the dead before the great tribulation, and the rapture before the great tribulation.

I don't understand how it's possible to believe in pre-trib. There's just way too many holes in.

The Bible would need to just say Jesus returns before the great tribulation to perform the first resurrection and rapture. It simply doesn't say that anywhere.

Wait till you find out there multiple resurrections, dispensationalist have one for every day of the week, old testament, pre-trib, tribulation saints, church, real big smiles

Yes the fairy tale of a pre-trib rapture has more holes in it than swiss cheese, sad part is they still believe it after being clearly shown

 

[Lucy-Pevensie]

The Left-Behind Game

 

[Truth7t7]

The Left-Behind Game

Your dating yourself

Wikipedia: Twister Game

Publisher(s) Hasbro
Winning Moves Games USA

Publication date December 14, 1966; 54 years ago

Genre(s) Physical skill game

Age range 6+

 

[FreeGrace2]

I post because i believe a voice needs to be heard from the bride / groom perspective

The problem is you are forced to use a parable, in which EVEN Jesus' own disciples couldn't understand them and they had to be explained.

A game changer
If anyone actually listens it is a bonus
Lol

Lol is right! On top of using a parable, you then have to spiritualize it to make it work for you.

The issue of spiritualizing any part of the Bible is that the spiritualizer gets to make up whatever they want about the parable and no one can say "not true", even when it isn't true.

One can neither defend nor refute spiritualized parables.

The only proof of a pre-trib rapture would be verses that speak clearly of the resurrection and rapture and mention that Jesus takes them all back to heaven.

Which, of course, there aren't any such verses.

Game over.

Both Matt 24:29-31 and 2 Thess 2:1-3 teach in plain language that the rapture occurs at the end of the Trib when Jesus returns.