Justification

[seed_time_harvest]

The only way the parable of the sower could be talking to a believer that was saved and then lost their salvation would be the flesh can overcome GODs workmanship and that would mean that GODs WORD Is not Incorruptible,so then the example In the parable of the sower could not possibly be talking to a believer.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The only way you can reconcile OSAS with the parable of the sower is to think the first 2 examples are for unbelievers. That is not true, they are believers, but with shallow commitments, and so loose whatever belief they had.

I believe that being saved is a long process that one establishes over a long period of time. I do not believe that one is saved and then is forever saved by Jesus even if they finally reject his name and do all that they can to disavow him. IOW, the race is not won at the beginning, it is won at the end of the race by being true to your commitments and promises the entire way, and have finally reached and broken through the tape in victory.

False only 1 of the examples had any root attached to the one who gives life so they could produce fruit,

 

[Chester]

Justification is by faith alone or faith plus works?

Neither:

If salvation is by "faith alone" give a verse that says so . . . (try James 2:24 . . .)

Salvation is by grace through faith and then we become God's workmanship (Eph. 2:8-10) .

We are saved by the grace of God through our response in faith. And we stay saved by the grace of God through our response in faith. It is all of God, not of the works of man.

The person who does not have the grace of God working in their life by the power of the Holy Spirit and is not believing by faith in the atonement of Jesus death and resurrection is not saved.

 

[PennEd]

Neither:

If salvation is by "faith alone" give a verse that says so . . . (try James 2:24 . . .)

Salvation is by grace through faith and then we become God's workmanship (Eph. 2:8-10) .

We are saved by the grace of God through our response in faith. And we stay saved by the grace of God through our response in faith. It is all of God, not of the works of man.

The person who does not have the grace of God working in their life by the power of the Holy Spirit and is not believing by faith in the atonement of Jesus death and resurrection is not saved.

Why are you sticking "our response" in that passage?

8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.

 

[Chester]

Why are you sticking "our response" in that passage?

8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.

Good question -- the text just says "through faith" -- I think I put "our response in faith" because when God's grace begins to work in my heart, then it produces faith in him in my response to God. I wasn't trying to sneak "works" into my answer somehow -

 

[Guojing]

We are saved by the grace of God through our response in faith. And we stay saved by the grace of God through our response in faith. It is all of God, not of the works of man.

This is how some people sneak in works thru the back door, the Saving faith = Salvation + works equation

 

[Chester]

This is how some people sneak in works thru the back door, the Saving faith = Salvation + works equation

Sorry, I have no idea what you are trying to say or what you are hinting at . . . ??????????????????

For myself, I love doing works; they are not a bother, but a blessing. I am not sure why some make so much fuss about being sure not to even mention anything about works.

 

[seed_time_harvest]

Sorry, I have no idea what you are trying to say or what you are hinting at . . . ??????????????????

For myself, I love doing works; they are not a bother, but a blessing. I am not sure why some make so much fuss about being sure not to even mention anything about works.

Did you do perfect works that GOD looks favorably on before you got saved or after you got saved?

If you are doing good works you are doing well but all we are saying Is give JESUS all the credit first,HE Is the VINE and we are the branches In the body of CHRIST receiving sustenance from the VINE.

 

[seed_time_harvest]

Sorry, I have no idea what you are trying to say or what you are hinting at . . . ??????????????????

For myself, I love doing works; they are not a bother, but a blessing. I am not sure why some make so much fuss about being sure not to even mention anything about works.

Did you do perfect works that GOD looks favorably on before you got saved or after you got saved?

If you are doing good works you are doing well but all we are saying Is give JESUS all the credit first,HE Is the VINE and we are the branches In the body of CHRIST receiving sustenance from the VINE.

The reason I ask did you do good works before or after Salvation Is that before salvation good acts on your part would be of the flesh and there Is nothing wrong with that just like some want to keep the Sabbath but It wouldn't move GOD because GOD looks at the heart/motives and remember If you break one law you have offended the WHOLE law.

After salvation the Issue Is no more can you be perfect In the flesh but now because JESUS paid for all sin the Issue Is do you believe In what GOD In CHRIST said and If/when the person believe they were sealed.

 

[oldethennew]

JAMES 2:21.
Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?

2:24.
You see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

2:25.
Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers,
and had sent them out another way?

GA:. 2:17.
But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners,
is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid.

ROM. 8:30.
Moreover whom He did predestinate, them He also called: and whom He called, them He also justified:
and whom He justified, them hHe also glorified.

5:1.
Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:

5:7.
For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die.

 

[seed_time_harvest]

JAMES 2:21.
Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?

2:24.
You see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

2:25.
Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers,
and had sent them out another way?

GA:. 2:17.
But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners,
is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid.

ROM. 8:30.
Moreover whom He did predestinate, them He also called: and whom He called, them He also justified:
and whom He justified, them hHe also glorified.

5:1.
Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:

5:7.
For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die.

Romans 4:1-2
King James Version


1 What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found?

2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath [whereof] to glory; but not before God.

 

[oldethennew]

we must, as Christians, 'look at the whole picture'...

and, one scripture 'never nullifies another'...

for it is written: Your Word is Truth and Your Word is settled forever in heaven'...

 

[seed_time_harvest]

Yes,scripture should harmonize scripture but some use scripture to be contrary to another scripture

but the same GOD that Inspired the writing of a scripture that the person Is Interpreting to buttress their point Is the same GOD that Inspired the other scripture and GOD Is not the author of confusion.