Jesus turned water into unfermented wine and not fermented wine.
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Instead, I was born of fornication and I´m a liar.
If you quated those verses is "OK". As you probably have seen by yourself, there´s no point in reading the whole thread to say words.
Thanks for telling it before, but i don´t read the whole thread to give my opinion.
Let´s open a can of beer, cider or wine to celebrate it? ;D
I rather like cider!
If you quated those verses is "OK". As you probably have seen by yourself, there´s no point in reading the whole thread to say words.
Thanks for telling it before, but i don´t read the whole thread to give my opinion.
Let´s open a can of beer, cider or wine to celebrate it? ;D
I rather like cider!
K
Your right it doesn't, but the scriptures says God knows our heart.
So by knowing our heart He would have known where each person stood and who would resist and who would not.
By what I said though would not be a far stretch.
Considering the wine though you need to research and study their traditions and customs, and not use modern day traditions or customs to influence your decision.
Their custom was to take what is called the good wine ( fermented ) and serve it first, once they got drunk they brought out the bad batch ( less fermented/watered down ) of wine to save and stretch out the good batch, and not let it be wasted.
Because of being drunk the drunkards would not have known any better the different quality of the wine being given.
Actually, in the Roman world of New Testament times, the best wines were those whose alcoholic potency had been removed by boiling or filtration. Pliny, for example, says that "wines are most beneficial (utilissimum) when all their potency has been removed by the strainer." Similarly, Plutarch points out that wine is "much more pleasant to drink" when it "neither inflames the brain nor infests the mind or passions" because its strength has been removed through frequent filtering.Referring to some of the same ancient authors, Barnes says: "Pliny, Plutarch and Horace describe wine as good, or mention that as the best wine which was harmless or innocent—poculis vini innocentis.
In addition, Some Rabbins have even ascribed the downfall of Israel to wine. An example of disapproval is the statement, often repeated with minor variations by different rabbis, which says: "When wine enters into the system of a person, out goes sense, wherever there is wine there is no understanding."This awareness of the harmful effect of alcoholic wine explains why some rabbis recommended the use of boiled wine. Speaking of the latter, the Mishna says: "Rabbi Yehuda permits it [boiled wine as heave-offering], because it improves it [its quality]." "Such a wine," notes Kitto’s Cyclopedia of Biblical Literature, "was esteemed [among the Jews] the richest and best wine." Elsewhere the Talmud indicates that drinking was forbidden to the accompaniment of musical instruments in festive occasions such as weddings (Sotah 48a; also Mishna Sotah 9,11).
Now, Paul says,"Drink no longer water, but use a little wine for thy stomach's sake and thine often infirmities" (1 Timothy 5:23 KJV). So the use of both fermented grape juice and unfermented grape juice appears to have been used during the time of the apostles. But just so that there is no confusion on this passage above here, Paul was not advocating one to get drunk (or even to drink socially here). He was telling believers to drink a little wine in your water to prevent one in having stomach problems because there was no easily accessible purified water back in those days. Now, in Romans chapter 14 we are told not to eat or drink anything that makes our brother to stumble. So we as Christians are allowed to drink in moderation as long as it does not make our brother to stumble. However, make no mistake: A Christian is NOT allowed to get drunk or intoxicated; For drunkards will not inherit the Kingdom of God (1 Corinthians 6:10 KJV). In other words, a Christian has to privately drink in moderation (and not in excess), otherwise an onlooking fellow brother or sister (without their knowledge) could see them and then stumble back into alcoholism; Which is a sin.
Source Used:
Jesus and Wine
In addition, Some Rabbins have even ascribed the downfall of Israel to wine. An example of disapproval is the statement, often repeated with minor variations by different rabbis, which says: "When wine enters into the system of a person, out goes sense, wherever there is wine there is no understanding."This awareness of the harmful effect of alcoholic wine explains why some rabbis recommended the use of boiled wine. Speaking of the latter, the Mishna says: "Rabbi Yehuda permits it [boiled wine as heave-offering], because it improves it [its quality]." "Such a wine," notes Kitto’s Cyclopedia of Biblical Literature, "was esteemed [among the Jews] the richest and best wine." Elsewhere the Talmud indicates that drinking was forbidden to the accompaniment of musical instruments in festive occasions such as weddings (Sotah 48a; also Mishna Sotah 9,11).
Now, Paul says,"Drink no longer water, but use a little wine for thy stomach's sake and thine often infirmities" (1 Timothy 5:23 KJV). So the use of both fermented grape juice and unfermented grape juice appears to have been used during the time of the apostles. But just so that there is no confusion on this passage above here, Paul was not advocating one to get drunk (or even to drink socially here). He was telling believers to drink a little wine in your water to prevent one in having stomach problems because there was no easily accessible purified water back in those days. Now, in Romans chapter 14 we are told not to eat or drink anything that makes our brother to stumble. So we as Christians are allowed to drink in moderation as long as it does not make our brother to stumble. However, make no mistake: A Christian is NOT allowed to get drunk or intoxicated; For drunkards will not inherit the Kingdom of God (1 Corinthians 6:10 KJV). In other words, a Christian has to privately drink in moderation (and not in excess), otherwise an onlooking fellow brother or sister (without their knowledge) could see them and then stumble back into alcoholism; Which is a sin.
Source Used:
Jesus and Wine
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Ha! Ha!
The only time i remember having been close to drunkness I was at the beach with several friends and, what i did, it was a preach, close to midnight... I never liked to be under those effects.
Sadly, in my family there were those problems (a thing I regreted). On of these days they will overcome their issues:
1Pe_4:7 The end of all things is at hand; therefore be self-controlled and sober-minded for the sake of your prayers.
1Pe_5:8 Be sober-minded; be watchful. Your adversary the devil prowls around like a roaring lion, seeking someone to devour.
1Th_5:8 But since we belong to the day, let us be sober, having put on the breastplate of faith and love, and for a helmet the hope of salvation.
The only time i remember having been close to drunkness I was at the beach with several friends and, what i did, it was a preach, close to midnight... I never liked to be under those effects.
Sadly, in my family there were those problems (a thing I regreted). On of these days they will overcome their issues:
1Pe_4:7 The end of all things is at hand; therefore be self-controlled and sober-minded for the sake of your prayers.
1Pe_5:8 Be sober-minded; be watchful. Your adversary the devil prowls around like a roaring lion, seeking someone to devour.
1Th_5:8 But since we belong to the day, let us be sober, having put on the breastplate of faith and love, and for a helmet the hope of salvation.
P
Look, friend, you want to abstain? By all means, do so. Me? I am one of those just needs to stay away from it. Not everyone is like that. But whatever your viewpoint, stop perverting scripture to meet your opinionated viewpoint. Want someone to listen to your opinion? Base it on scripture.
Acts 2:13 "Others mocking said, These men are full of new wine."
Acts 2:13 "Others mocking said, These men are full of new wine."
Hmm! I´ve never been drunk, but I know what it can be done DRUNK (even sober). That state is not sinful, but just all those things that can be done drunk (even sober).
PS
Just remember the book of ACTS. Many belived the 120 were drunk, and were "drunk" by the H.S. of God
PS Each person is responsible for HIR /HER DEEDS. It wasn´t Jesus fault.
Don´t endorse Him my sins, please.
PS
Just remember the book of ACTS. Many belived the 120 were drunk, and were "drunk" by the H.S. of God
PS Each person is responsible for HIR /HER DEEDS. It wasn´t Jesus fault.
Don´t endorse Him my sins, please.
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K
Wrong, you are adding modern day.
You are saying what the dictionary says, but we are to go by what the bible says; so lets look at what the bible says....
These are the words used in the new testament for wine;
oy'-nos: wine, from yah-yin: meaning to effervesce (or fermented). (Used most places throughout the New Testament.) glyoo'-kos: (or glucose or a liquid fruit sugar), or a syrupy sweet fruit juice. (Used only one time.)
par'-oy-nos: (From two words: 1. Para: near and 2. G3631 wine), meaning addicted to wine. (Used only twice.)
oy-of-loog-ee'-ah: (From two words: 1. G3631 wine and 2. Floo'or-os: bubbly or to talk incessantly), meaning drunkenness or drunk on wine. (Used only once.)
The one used in the scripture we are speaking of is the first one oy'-nos. Which is fermented wine.
You are saying what the dictionary says, but we are to go by what the bible says; so lets look at what the bible says....
These are the words used in the new testament for wine;
oy'-nos: wine, from yah-yin: meaning to effervesce (or fermented). (Used most places throughout the New Testament.) glyoo'-kos: (or glucose or a liquid fruit sugar), or a syrupy sweet fruit juice. (Used only one time.)
par'-oy-nos: (From two words: 1. Para: near and 2. G3631 wine), meaning addicted to wine. (Used only twice.)
oy-of-loog-ee'-ah: (From two words: 1. G3631 wine and 2. Floo'or-os: bubbly or to talk incessantly), meaning drunkenness or drunk on wine. (Used only once.)
The one used in the scripture we are speaking of is the first one oy'-nos. Which is fermented wine.
Jesus never promoted sin: Wine, at a wedding, is not and wasn´t a sinful sin (thing). Unless you want the guest to FAST at that moment...
Mat 9:15 And Jesus said to them, "Can the wedding guests mourn as long as the bridegroom is with them? The days will come when the bridegroom is taken away from them, and then they will fast.
Note, this day (Mar 14:25 Truly, I say to you, I will not drink again of the fruit of the vine until that day when I drink it new in the kingdom of God.") it wasn´t fermented, it wasn´t oinos
Mat 9:15 And Jesus said to them, "Can the wedding guests mourn as long as the bridegroom is with them? The days will come when the bridegroom is taken away from them, and then they will fast.
Note, this day (Mar 14:25 Truly, I say to you, I will not drink again of the fruit of the vine until that day when I drink it new in the kingdom of God.") it wasn´t fermented, it wasn´t oinos
L
John 2:6 And there were set there six waterpots of stone, after the manner of the purifying of the Jews, containing two or three firkins apiece.
Firkin= 8.625 gallons....that's approximately 9 gallons. The capacity of each waterpot was 2-3 firkins, which is equal to 18-27 gallons each. There were 6 waterpots. That would total to about 162 gallons of water. If you really believe that that Jesus would turn 162 gallons of water into 162 gallons of fermented wine for a party of people who were already "well drunk", then you need your head examined.
Jesus would have violated Habakkuk 2:15:
Habakkuk 2:15 Woe unto him that giveth his neighbour drink, that puttest thy bottle to him, and makest him drunken also, that thou mayest look on their nakedness!
Certainly, Jesus knew that this verse was in the Bible; He was well-acquainted with Scripture, since it is His Word and was written about Him. He did not come to violate Scripture, but to fulfill it. He could not have done so, if He had made alcoholic wine and had given it to his neighbor.
Firkin= 8.625 gallons....that's approximately 9 gallons. The capacity of each waterpot was 2-3 firkins, which is equal to 18-27 gallons each. There were 6 waterpots. That would total to about 162 gallons of water. If you really believe that that Jesus would turn 162 gallons of water into 162 gallons of fermented wine for a party of people who were already "well drunk", then you need your head examined.
Jesus would have violated Habakkuk 2:15:
Habakkuk 2:15 Woe unto him that giveth his neighbour drink, that puttest thy bottle to him, and makest him drunken also, that thou mayest look on their nakedness!
Certainly, Jesus knew that this verse was in the Bible; He was well-acquainted with Scripture, since it is His Word and was written about Him. He did not come to violate Scripture, but to fulfill it. He could not have done so, if He had made alcoholic wine and had given it to his neighbor.