Jesus is Jehovah? So Jehovah is Son in trinity?

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Jun 4, 2019
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#81
Jun 4, 2019
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#82
It is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins.
(Hebrews 10:4)
. . to sacrifice their sons and daughters to Molek, though I never commanded -- nor did it enter My mind -- that they should do such a detestable thing . .
(Jeremiah 32:35)
The blood of animals atone for sins, but they cannot cause a man to stop sinning, which is why they had to continued to be sacrificed daily. The blood of the Messiah, however, can cause a man to stop sinning, through belief in him, and by receiving the anointing, which cuts away sin in the heart, which is circumcision of the heart. This is why it is said, "and he has perfected continually those who have been set apart", which is what being set apart by the anointing means. Also, the Messiah was made to be a sacrifice not by the will of man, but by the will of God, because although we ourselves are not authorized to murder, hence "you shall not murder", God does indeed have authority to take life just as he has authority to give life, because he is the creator, for whatever purpose pleases him. And so, the death of the Messiah was appointed by God to be atonement and deliverance for those who believe in the Messiah. You have therefore taken Jeremiah 32:35 and twisted it to imply that God did evil by making the Messiah a sacrifice for sins, which is what the scriptures claim he became.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
37,951
13,615
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#83
The blood of animals atone for sins, but they cannot cause a man to stop sinning, which is why they had to continued to be sacrificed daily. The blood of the Messiah, however, can cause a man to stop sinning, through belief in him, and by receiving the anointing, which cuts away sin in the heart, which is circumcision of the heart. This is why it is said, "and he has perfected continually those who have been set apart", which is what being set apart by the anointing means. Also, the Messiah was made to be a sacrifice not by the will of man, but by the will of God, because although we ourselves are not authorized to murder, hence "you shall not murder", God does indeed have authority to take life just as he has authority to give life, because he is the creator, for whatever purpose pleases him. And so, the death of the Messiah was appointed by God to be atonement and deliverance for those who believe in the Messiah. You have therefore taken Jeremiah 32:35 and twisted it to imply that God did evil by making the Messiah a sacrifice for sins, which is what the scriptures claim he became.
no one takes His life; He lays it down and takes it up again.

Mine own arm brought salvation unto Me
(Isaiah 63:5)

 
J

jaybird88

Guest
#84
Ok then jaybird! Suppose you tell me what "facts" I got wrong and what was illogical or unresoned with what I said? Or are you going to give us the same ole excuse of, "I got to watch what I post or I'll get banned?" :rolleyes: PS: You also said this? "what does this mean? you believe the earth is only 6k years old? What do you think it means jaybird?

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
you know all to well we cant question the trinity here or we get banned, thats your only defense to the debate, you get to argue your point and i get censored, so hats off to you, your the winner, you just won a fight where the other guy had both hands tied behind his back and blindfolded. now go do your victory dance.
 
Jun 4, 2019
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#86
no one takes His life; He lays it down and takes it up again.

Mine own arm brought salvation unto Me
(Isaiah 63:5)
God took his life, and the Messiah willingly accepted what God had appointed for him, hence "Yet it was the will of Yehovah to crush him; he has put him to grief; when his soul makes an offering for guilt".
 

bluto

Senior Member
Aug 4, 2016
2,118
538
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#87
To be called "son" implies to be created, because a son comes after a "Father" in time, not before a father, nor at the same time as a father. This is why the Messiah is called "firstborn of creation", because he was created first, in the beginning, which is why he was with God in the beginning, because that is when he came into existence. This is the truth, and to teach otherwise is blasphemy. http://www.wisdomofgod.us/2019/05/14/the-lie-of-the-trinity/ .
The big problem your having is that you are looking at all of this from a strickly human point of view and not from God's view. God created mankind and told him to be fruitful and multiply. You as with all humans are the product of your parents and you have the same nature as your parents which is a human nature. Lions produce other lion cubs, birds produce birds and dogs begat dog puppies.

So tell me, who is the Father of Jesus Christ? In the case of Jesus Christ He is the only one that has two natures, one on His mothers side which is human and one on His Fathers side which is deity. Did you ever wonder why Jesus refered to Himself numerous times as the "Son of Man" and as the "Son of God?" The birth of Jesus Christ was a miracle where the Holy Spirit of God overshadowed Mary to give birth to a Son who is Jesus Christ. Read the account at Matthew 1:19-23. This is also why at Matthew 1:23 His name will be "Immanuel, which translated means "God with us."

This is also why John 3:16 says that Jesus Christ is the "ONLY" begotten Son of God as in there are no others. You can prove me wrong in all of this by simply giving me an example of a son that does not share the same nature as its father. You can't because it's a universal law. You also brought up the issue of "firstborn." The Greek word for firstborn is "protokos" and has a variety of meanings depending on the context.

Yes, it can mean firstborn by literal birth. It can also mean firstborn in the sense of "preeminence." Just read Romans 8:29. At Colossians 1:18 it says that Jesus Christ is the "firstborn" from the dead. Of course this not mean literal birth but He was the first one to resurrect from the dead in a "permanent" way defeating death so that we can have eternal life. So, please tell me what I have said that you consider "blasphemy?" :eek:

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
 
Jun 4, 2019
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#88
It never ceases to amaze me how many believers will buy many expensive books from megachurch pastors of things they want to hear, yet when information is given to them for free of things they don't want to hear they say, "I don't bother reading bible studies".
 
J

jaybird88

Guest
#89

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
37,951
13,615
113
#90
this is why i said, i do not consider you ready to start a church. you must believe that He is, and know who He is.

no one doth take it from Me, but I lay it down of Myself
(John 10:18)
 
Jun 4, 2019
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#91
The big problem your having is that you are looking at all of this from a strickly human point of view and not from God's view. God created mankind and told him to be fruitful and multiply. You as with all humans are the product of your parents and you have the same nature as your parents which is a human nature. Lions produce other lion cubs, birds produce birds and dogs begat dog puppies.

So tell me, who is the Father of Jesus Christ? In the case of Jesus Christ He is the only one that has two natures, one on His mothers side which is human and one on His Fathers side which is deity. Did you ever wonder why Jesus refered to Himself numerous times as the "Son of Man" and as the "Son of God?" The birth of Jesus Christ was a miracle where the Holy Spirit of God overshadowed Mary to give birth to a Son who is Jesus Christ. Read the account at Matthew 1:19-23. This is also why at Matthew 1:23 His name will be "Immanuel, which translated means "God with us."

This is also why John 3:16 says that Jesus Christ is the "ONLY" begotten Son of God as in there are no others. You can prove me wrong in all of this by simply giving me an example of a son that does not share the same nature as its father. You can't because it's a universal law. You also brought up the issue of "firstborn." The Greek word for firstborn is "protokos" and has a variety of meanings depending on the context.

Yes, it can mean firstborn by literal birth. It can also mean firstborn in the sense of "preeminence." Just read Romans 8:29. At Colossians 1:18 it says that Jesus Christ is the "firstborn" from the dead. Of course this not mean literal birth but He was the first one to resurrect from the dead in a "permanent" way defeating death so that we can have eternal life. So, please tell me what I have said that you consider "blasphemy?" :eek:

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
The Messiah is the only begotten son of God because he was the only one brought into existence directly by the Father, whereas all other sons of God came through the Messiah.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
37,951
13,615
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#92
God took his life, and the Messiah willingly accepted what God had appointed for him, hence "Yet it was the will of Yehovah to crush him; he has put him to grief; when his soul makes an offering for guilt".
you esteemed Him stricken?
 
J

jaybird88

Guest
#93
It never ceases to amaze me how many believers will buy many expensive books from megachurch pastors of things they want to hear, yet when information is given to them for free of things they don't want to hear they say, "I don't bother reading bible studies".
not sure what your going on about with the mega church money preachers but anyway.
this is a discussion board, hows it going to work when all people do is post links . . . .boring. why dont you read it and discuss it here.
 

bluto

Senior Member
Aug 4, 2016
2,118
538
113
#94
you know all to well we cant question the trinity here or we get banned, thats your only defense to the debate, you get to argue your point and i get censored, so hats off to you, your the winner, you just won a fight where the other guy had both hands tied behind his back and blindfolded. now go do your victory dance.
Oh please jaybird, quit acting like your some kind of "martyr" that people are suppose to feel sorry for. I don't look at this stuff as some sort of game or to win arguments. And answer me this, why has not cgneustar been banned for posting the following website, read the words. I hope he is not banned because this websites is a good way to reach people in my opinion. http://www.wisdomofgod.us/2019/05/14/the-lie-of-the-trinity/

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
37,951
13,615
113
#95
The Messiah is the only begotten son of God because he was the only one brought into existence directly by the Father, whereas all other sons of God came through the Messiah.
He is the Beginning And The End; having no beginning or end.

Isaiah 44:6 + Revelation 1:8 = ________________




The disciples came to Him and asked,
"why do You speak to the people in parables?"
(Matthew 13:10)
 
Jun 4, 2019
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#96
Jun 4, 2019
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#97
this is why i said, i do not consider you ready to start a church. you must believe that He is, and know who He is.

no one doth take it from Me, but I lay it down of Myself
(John 10:18)
By "none takes it from me" he means no one on earth took his life from him because he willingly laid it down, not that God who appoints everything did not take his life. Why else do you think the Messiah wept bitterly and said, "if it be possible, may this cup pass from me, nonetheless, your will be done and not mine"? Because he knew it was the will of God that he die. You people quite literally oppose everything that is true, deviating to the left and to the right in every way possible, even in such basic matters as this.
 
Jun 4, 2019
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#98
not sure what your going on about with the mega church money preachers but anyway.
this is a discussion board, hows it going to work when all people do is post links . . . .boring. why dont you read it and discuss it here.
Am I not on here doing both, posting links, AND also wasting my time bickering with you people about the truth that I already know you are going to reject?
 
Jun 4, 2019
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#99
He is the Beginning And The End; having no beginning or end.

Isaiah 44:6 + Revelation 1:8 = ________________



The disciples came to Him and asked,
"why do You speak to the people in parables?"
(Matthew 13:10)
He had a beginning, hence why he is called the "firstborn of creation".
 
J

jaybird88

Guest
Quite the contrary, whether this is true or not, the flood story is indeed known to be mentioned in Sumerian texts, https://www.google.com/search?q=sum...0j69i57j0l4.3267j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8 .
guess i should have phrased this a bit different.
most every ancient culture have a flood story, but not one of them have a flood story that take place in the middle of their civilization. matter of fact Egypt, India and China all pinpoint the flood to around 10,000 BC, which is 12 thousand years back. and before the flood there was another age. gobekli tepe goes back to 9000BC and thats mainstream scholars.
the young earth idea has always been baffling to me, ancient history supports the bible on so many ways but the young earth idea really puts the bible out there as far fetched.