Jesus is God

[wattie]

In regards to the Old Testament scripture of 'God being not a man nor son of man'

from got questions.org:

We must also consider what the Old Testament is really saying about God when it says He is not a human being. The point being made in Numbers 23:19, 1 Samuel 15:29, and Hosea 11:9 is that God does not lie. He is not fickle. His emotions do not change His eternal purposes. This is unlike fallen humanity, who cannot see the big picture, who often breaks promises, and whose feelings often cloud discernment. In other words, the statements that God is not a man are contrasting one aspect of God’s nature with a corresponding part of man’s. Saying, “God is not a man,” has nothing to do with whether or not God can ever exist in the flesh.

 

[Mem]

It doesn’t deny the Son of the Father wasn’t a servant prior to being made in human likeness.

doesn't deny...wasn't... there's a lot of negatives to sort through in the attempt to understand this thought...
It says He emptied Himself. That is, he took the form of a servant...

 

[Runningman]

doesn't deny...wasn't... there's a lot of negatives to sort through in the attempt to understand this thought...
It says He emptied Himself. That is, he took the form of a servant...

Yes and after Jesus took the form of a servant he was made Lord for God the Father’s glory. Is the one who gets the glory greater than or equal to the one who gives glory?


Philippians 2:11
11and every tongue acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord,
to the glory of God the Father.

 

[Runningman]

These verses below said God the Father sent His Son and that the messenger is not greater than the one who sent him. So what does that tell you?


Matthew 10:40
40“Anyone who welcomes you welcomes me, and anyone who welcomes me welcomes the one who sent me.

John 13:16,17
16Very truly I tell you, no servant is greater than his master, nor is a messenger greater than the one who sent him. 17Now that you know these things, you will be blessed if you do them.

1 John 4
14And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world.

 

[Mem]

These verses below said God the Father sent His Son and that the messenger is not greater than the one who sent him. So what does that tell you?


Matthew 10:40
40“Anyone who welcomes you welcomes me, and anyone who welcomes me welcomes the one who sent me.

John 13:16,17
16Very truly I tell you, no servant is greater than his master, nor is a messenger greater than the one who sent him. 17Now that you know these things, you will be blessed if you do them.

1 John 4
14And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world.

You present me with a false dichotomy in claiming that if one is not greater than the other then he must be less than the other. There is that he could be an equal and, when speaking in regard to the identity of God, how can one apply 'normal' protocol when one of three speaks toward any One of the Other in offering accolades? At any rate, Jesus is speaking to his disciples in the John 13 reference. Jesus was not sent as a messenger, He actually Is the Message, that is, The Word.

 

[RizenPhoenix]

Interesting...

3rd eye? Well that's New Age stuff.. so that's a funny thing to mention.

You mention humans being confused.. you must be also a human? And also then confused?

Jesus created?

He was in the beginning with God as the Word and all thing were created thru Him according to scripture. If He was their in the beginning.. the bible makes no mention of any being there in the beginning that was actually created as far as I know.

Son of God-- as I posted before .. does not have the same meaning as a human being having a child. Son is like 'image' 'expression'.. that is how the bible defines Jesus.

The meaning of Son of God is more like 'unique heir' according to scripture context.

Jesus didn't end up dead. He even..straight after dieing on the cross.. descended into the lower parts of the earth and set captives free.. who were dead... who were then seen alive later.. resurrected.

He in now ascended to heaven.. one with the Father!

But I am going on ....

Obviously scripture is not your authority.. Rizenphoenix.

If you really want to study the diety of Christ.. it isn't in looking at thing through natural man's eyes. Of course a woman doesn't give birth to God in men's eyes! Of course someone doesn't rise from the dead in men's eyes.

But what actually happened? Jesus was born of a virgin

He did really get crucified. It's confirmed by people who didn't even believe He was God. The Jewish officials never argued he wasn't crucified.. only that His body was stolen.

The evidence that he got crucified.. is just as strong that He was seen alive.. in a resurrected body.. afterwards. The witnesses to that attest to it through the apostles testimony. They died for believing He was risen.. when there were people around them who could have easily said they were dieing for a myth... but that isn't what happened.

Anyway, I was a New Ager. I know what it is like to look at things through natural, but spiritually confused lenses. Maybe you believe in one God.. and Jesus isn't it.. but there is no other diety.. not other supposed 'god' who has done anything about men's fallen state.

Only Jesus Has. The Son of God.. with the Father and Holy Spirit as the one Triune God. All equally God. Not 3 Gods. Not seperate beings. The same essence and substance.

End of story.

Clearly, you don't READ THE BIBLE. I am not a new ager. I like the term 3rd eye because it demonstrates a specific center for spiritual consciousness and other supernatural activity. I am not a "new ager" what ever they are. And, you don't read your history either, who would dare use the word Triune which anybody with any history background knows about the Council of Nicaea/Laodicea that created the Trinity theory to make Jesus God.

 

[RizenPhoenix]

You present me with a false dichotomy in claiming that if one is not greater than the other then he must be less than the other. There is that he could be an equal and, when speaking in regard to the identity of God, how can one apply 'normal' protocol when one of three speaks toward any One of the Other in offering accolades? At any rate, Jesus is speaking to his disciples in the John 13 reference. Jesus was not sent as a messenger, He actually Is the Message, that is, The Word.

If a person is not open to TRUTH John 8:32. Then they will never get it John 14:28, John 5:19, Philippian 2:6. Those who believe in the Trinity, go ahead an be both a Father and the Son at the same time, confuse yourself. Pray more.

 

[Mem]

If a person is not open to TRUTH John 8:32. Then they will never get it John 14:28, John 5:19, Philippian 2:6. Those who believe in the Trinity, go ahead an be both a Father and the Son at the same time, confuse yourself. Pray more.

Please refrain from attempting to representing my view if you have no grasp of it. Going by your post 526, you seem prone to reject a truth simply because Hitler also held that particular opinion.

 

[RizenPhoenix]

Jesus is second in command to no one but God. He is the Chief Archangel. Hebrew 12:2-3, That makes him very powerful because God gave him that power. Read 1 Corinthian 15:24-28 is your answer to this questioning. There have been many Father's with a human agenda that have given their business over to their Son to run. It just isn't rocket science. If you don't get it that Jesus is not God then your not suppose to get it. It's just not for you!

 

[Runningman]

You present me with a false dichotomy in claiming that if one is not greater than the other then he must be less than the other. There is that he could be an equal and, when speaking in regard to the identity of God, how can one apply 'normal' protocol when one of three speaks toward any One of the Other in offering accolades? At any rate, Jesus is speaking to his disciples in the John 13 reference. Jesus was not sent as a messenger, He actually Is the Message, that is, The Word.

I don't think it's a false dichotomy. Jesus said that he set the example for his disciples. To me that means if he's telling them to be messengers then he himself must have also been a messenger.

John 13
15I have set you an example that you should do as I have done for you.

 

[Magenta]

If a person is not open to TRUTH John 8:32. Then they will never get it

John 1:1
The Word became flesh and made His dwelling among us.

 

[RizenPhoenix]

Please refrain from attempting to representing my view if you have no grasp of it. Going by your post 526, you seem prone to reject a truth simply because Hitler also held that particular opinion.

I supported my comment with scripture. Why would you even take the time out to type H----- name?! The End.

 

[Mem]

I supported my comment with scripture. Why would you even take the time out to type H----- name?! The End.

what is it sacred to you? lol.
I don't see any scripture in your opinion here.

Clearly, you don't READ THE BIBLE. I am not a new ager. I like the term 3rd eye because it demonstrates a specific center for spiritual consciousness and other supernatural activity. I am not a "new ager" what ever they are. And, you don't read your history either, who would dare use the word Triune which anybody with any history background knows about the Council of Nicaea/Laodicea that created the Trinity theory to make Jesus God.

 

[wattie]

Clearly, you don't READ THE BIBLE. I am not a new ager. I like the term 3rd eye because it demonstrates a specific center for spiritual consciousness and other supernatural activity. I am not a "new ager" what ever they are. And, you don't read your history either, who would dare use the word Triune which anybody with any history background knows about the Council of Nicaea/Laodicea that created the Trinity theory to make Jesus God.

Okay.. well I won't be sarcastic again, sorry.

Getting back to scripture..

Some verses about Jesus being God.. sorry haven't got the refs.

'All the fullness of the Godhead dwells in Him bodily'

'They shall call His name Immanuel, meaning 'God with us'

Jesus said 'I and the Father are one'

And 'Before Abraham was... I AM'

Thomas called Jesus his God.. and Jesus accepted that.

Jesus accepted worship of people who had high positions themselves.

Jesus forgave sin in the third person.. only God can do that.

There is a lot more also.

I mentioned the third eye being a New Age thing. You were saying it's a centre of supernatural spiritual consciousness.


Thats New Age thinking.

I tried New Age beliefs.. and the 3rd eye thing was a big part of it.

Anyway.. peace out

 

[RizenPhoenix]

Clearly, you don't READ THE BIBLE. I am not a new ager. I like the term 3rd eye because it demonstrates a specific center for spiritual consciousness and other supernatural activity. I am not a "new ager" what ever they are. And, you don't read your history either, who would dare use the word Triune which anybody with any history background knows about the Council of Nicaea/Laodicea that created the Trinity theory to make Jesus God.

O.K. then answer these questions 1. who was Jesus praying to when he was on the stake dying or praying in the garden of Gethsemane, himself? 2. Who resurrected him if they are the same 3, they would have all died at the same time right? 3. Why did he say "why hast thy forsaken me" who forsake him if he was himself? 4. Jesus says he is going back and will be on the RIGHT hand of his Father, sounds like someone is sitting beside him. 5. When Satan was gonna throw him off the battlement or top of the building, why did Satan say your father will save you, if Jesus is the Father? Please stop with that Trinity things it is just a senseless theory. All of this points to YHWH, Yahweh, Jehovah a complete separate entity called God. Please!

 

[wattie]

O.K. then answer these questions 1. who was Jesus praying to when he was on the stake dying or praying in the garden of Gethsemane, himself? 2. Who resurrected him if they are the same 3, they would have all died at the same time right? 3. Why did he say "why hast thy forsaken me" who forsake him if he was himself? 4. Jesus says he is going back and will be on the RIGHT hand of his Father, sounds like someone is sitting beside him. 5. When Satan was gonna throw him off the battlement or top of the building, why did Satan say your father will save you, if Jesus is the Father? Please stop with that Trinity things it is just a senseless theory. All of this points to YHWH, Yahweh, Jehovah a complete separate entity called God. Please!

Well, the Father is distinct from Jesus. But not unequal. Plus we are talking about God here. He expresses Himself beyond what we can fathom in our understanding.

Jesus was 'self limiting'..

But in regards to when Jesus says 'why hast thou forsaken me'.. this is a reference to:

(Psa 22:1) To the chief Musician upon Aijeleth Shahar, A Psalm of David. My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? why art thou so far from helping me, and from the words of my roaring?
(Psa 22:2) O my God, I cry in the daytime, but thou hearest not; and in the night season, and am not silent.

In this passage-- God had not literally left David.. but David was in distress and felt the Lord was not helping him.

When Jesus says it.. this is the point where Jesus had taken on the full sin of all.. just before He died.. the ultimate Lamb.. the Father had to 'turn his face away'.

But this isn't like Jesus was no longer God. It makes no sense for a being that was God.. to then somehow become not God. Like David.. Jesus is crying out in distress.. taking on the full pain and all sin.

Forsaken does not always mean 'left'.

But after this.. when Jesus' body dies... He descends in Spirit to set the captives free who were held under the earth. They are seen alive later resurrected.

That's fully God powers, friend.

 

[CorrectiveLens]

nor is Christ subordinate to God is my point, as they are "on the same level."

How can they be on the same level when one issues commands and the other obeys?

 

[Mem]

How can they be on the same level when one issues commands and the other obeys?

When the command is to die for the world, only the Son can obey it.

 

[GRACE_ambassador]

op: Triune GodHead; All Three on 'Same Level'?

Yes, In Eternity Past...

Then, The SON Humbly Submitted Himself To The Father,
To Be 'Sent To Become The Son of man' To Obey, and
Die For our sins (Mat 1:21; Luk 1:35; John_1:1-14; Phil 2:8;
Acts 20:28), And, Also:

The Holy Spirit Doubly Humbly Submitted Himself To Be
'Sent By Both The Father And The SON!' (Joh 14:15,26, 15:26)

What Beautiful And Wonderful Lessons we can learn, eh?
------------------------------------
Grace, Peace, And JOY In Christ, And In His Word Of Truth, Rightly
Divided (+ I and II)!

 

[XavierJesusLovesIndia]

John 17:4-5: Jesus finishes Glorifying the Father. He asks the Father to glorify Him to the original state He had in Heaven before the world began, which Phil 2:6-11 shows God the Father later did:

"4 I have glorified You on the earth. I have finished the work which You have given Me to do. 5 And now, O Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was."

Hence, many pray the "Gloria" to the Trinity or "Glory be the Father and to the Son and to the Holy Spirit". The Three are Co-Equal and Co-Eternal, the Glory One, the Majesty Equal. And another Apostolic Custom, handed down to the Churches by Tradition, is to Sign oneself with the Sign of the Cross, saying: "In the Name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit". It is piously believed, when one does that, the Graces of the Trinity are released, and Blood from the Cross of Christ falls on us and washes us or makes us more holy. Hence, as Tertullian relates, it was the Custom of the Early Christians, to begin all their work in this way: "In all our travels and movements", says Tertullian (De cor. Mil., iii), "in all our coming in and going out, in putting of our shoes, at the bath, at the table, in lighting our candles, in lying down, in sitting down, whatever employment occupieth us, we mark our foreheads with the sign of the cross". https://www.newadvent.org/cathen/13785a.htm

When it says in Luk 24:50 that He lifted up His Hands and Blessed them: "When Jesus had led them out as far as Bethany, He lifted up His hands and blessed them." the early Christians believed He made the Sign of the Cross over them. He also said the Sign of the Son of Man would one day appear in Heaven shortly before the Last Day: “Then will appear the sign of the Son of Man [the Cross] in heaven. And then all the peoples of the earth will mourn when they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory." (Mat 24:30)

And just after blessing them, as mentioned earlier, we have the only recorded instance where Our Lord Jesus Christ Himself uses the Name of the Holy Trinity, in giving the Baptismal Formula: "19Therefore go and make disciplesd of all nations, Baptizing them in the Name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, 20and teaching them to obey all that I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, even to the end of the age.” (Mat 28:19-20)

Again, that He said Name and not names proves that the Three Persons are One Lord God, i.e. They are a Holy Trinity.

God Bless.