Jesus Came To Fulfill Not To Destroy

[Duckybill]

Everlasting hellfire, not everlasting torment of everyone that is unsaved.

God is also described as an everlasting fire.

Matthew 25:41 (NKJV)
41 Then He will also say to those on the left hand, 'Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:
Revelation 20:10 (NKJV)
10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

 

[Duckybill]

I did...I told you that I had been circumcised the eighth day...that indicates that it was as a child.

The eighth day? lol
Why didn't you say YOUR eighth day?

 

[TMS]

Moses was given “the law”

It consisted of a moral Law a sacrificial Law and a ceremonial law. And Israel was told To obey every part of it

It was never split into different parts.

Understanding the difference between the two laws is vital to understanding what happened at the cross.

The Two laws

The Moral law, the ten commandments, the law of liberty, are what define sin, and were here before sin.
Deu 4:12 spoken by God,
Deu 10:3,4, Ex 31:18 written by God, On stone,
Deu 10:1-5, Kept inside the ark, .
James 2:11 law of liberty,
Rom 7:19 Spiritual,
Ps 11:7,8 Eternal,
1 John 3:4 points out sin,
Holy, Just and Good Rom 7:12.

The Ceremonial law, the laws of Moses, The laws of sacrifices, and offerings, etc. introduced because of sin, shows the solution for sin, after sin.
Lev 1:1-3 Spoken by Moses,
Deut 31:9, 24 Written by Moses, written in a book,
Deut 31:26 Kept outside the ark,
Gal 5:1 Yoke of bondage,
Heb 7:16 Carnal,
Heb 7:12 temporary,
Lev 4:27-31, John 1:29 points to saviour,
Not good Col 2:14

the only way these verses can not be contradicting each other is if they are talking about two different laws.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

I cited NT. It clearly speaks of the eternal Hell fire.

yes the New Testament with Paul explaining about circumcision and adherence to Moses law . Which doesn’t speak of hell or eternal fire eternal anything is all I am saying

he’s explaining that the law of Moses is a yoke and it is one law , the whole book has to be kept.

Paul is saying stay in Christs New Testament word and don’t go back to the bondage of the law of Moses . don’t be drawn into religion when you can know Christ , through believing the gospel which is far better is the point .

“Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, ( John 8:31-35)

and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.

Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing.

For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.

Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭5:1-4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

being circumcised is something alot of the world does for medical hygiene at birth now days in hospitals but insisting on obedience to Moses law has always been an issue .

it’s not as if we have no law , we have Christs word to hear and believe and learn from and follow. That’s actually the word that speaks of everlasting life in his kingdom and eternal damnation for the wicked is all I was saying the nt is about eternity

 

[justbyfaith]

The eighth day? lol
Why didn't you say YOUR eighth day?

I said it like Paul said it in Philippians chapter 3.

 

[justbyfaith]

yes the New Testament with Paul explaining about circumcision and adherence to Moses law . Which doesn’t speak of hell or eternal fire eternal anything is all I am saying

he’s explaining that the law of Moses is a yoke and it is one law , the whole book has to be kept.

Paul is saying stay in Christs New Testament word and don’t go back to the bondage of the law of Moses . don’t be drawn into religion when you can know Christ , through believing the gospel which is far better is the point .

“Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, ( John 8:31-35)

and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.

Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing.

For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.

Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭5:1-4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

being circumcised is something alot of the world does for medical hygiene at birth now days in hospitals but insisting on obedience to Moses law has always been an issue .

it’s not as if we have no law , we have Christs word to hear and believe and learn from and follow. That’s actually the word that speaks of everlasting life in his kingdom and eternal damnation for the wicked is all I was saying the nt is about eternity

The question that needs to be asked, I think, is, what has the Lord set us free from, in Galatians 5:1?

Has He set us free from sin, or from righteousness?

 

[Duckybill]

I said it like Paul said it in Philippians chapter 3.

Paul clearly mentioned that he was referring to himself.

 

[justbyfaith]

Paul clearly mentioned that he was referring to himself.

What was the eighth day that he was referring to? Was it not the eighth day of his own life?

 

[TMS]

The question that needs to be asked, I think, is, what has the Lord set us free from, in Galatians 5:1?

Has He set us free from sin, or from righteousness?

Sin in multiple ways,
It is All through the life death and resurrection of Christ we can be set free. It is through Justification, sanctification and Glorification that we can have the freedom. Jesus can give us clean garments (justification) but if we keep choosing to defile them it will be a long sad process so Jesus wants to change our hearts and help us to overcome sin (sanctification). Then at His coming the final stage, glorification we will receive a new body and sin will never rise again.

The keeping of Gods law is not to make us worthy or to earn rights to heaven it is a love response to Jesus. If we love Jesus we will not want to sin (Break the law). Joh 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.
Rev 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
1Jn 5:2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
1Jn 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

 

[justbyfaith]

Sin in multiple ways,
It is All through the life death and resurrection of Christ we can be set free. It is through Justification, sanctification and Glorification that we can have the freedom. Jesus can give us clean garments (justification) but if we keep choosing to defile them it will be a long sad process so Jesus wants to change our hearts and help us to overcome sin (sanctification). Then at His coming the final stage, glorification we will receive a new body and sin will never rise again.

The keeping of Gods law is not to make us worthy or to earn rights to heaven it is a love response to Jesus. If we love Jesus we will not want to sin (Break the law). Joh 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.
Rev 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
1Jn 5:2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
1Jn 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

If we are set free from sin rather than righteousness, then I would conclude that we are not violating the law of God in our behaviour.

Because sin is the transgression of the law (1 John 3:4).

And also, the righteousness of the law will be fulfilled in those who walk not after the flesh but after the Spirit (Romans 8:4).

 

[Grandpa]

That would make Paul a liar in Rom. 8:3-4!

Of course you will never accept that Paul said it, even though its plain as day!

But I do agree the Law brings forth death but only because man can't keep it.

Paul isn't saying that we obtain righteousness from the Law.

He is saying the opposite.

He is saying that the Law CANNOT give righteousness because it is weak through the flesh. But we can obtain the righteousness DESCRIBED by the law through our walk in the Spirit.


You try to twist Pauls words to say that the Law gives righteousness???

He would NEVER have said Romans 8:2 if he was going to turn around and say the Law gives righteousness. You are missing his whole point.

 

[Duckybill]

Thank God Christians are not under the Law of Moses! We would run out of body bags.

 

[Grandpa]

Paul plainly told us in Rom. 8:3-4 that the righteousness of the Law is fulfilled in us?

But that can't be can it, Grandpa? That would mean you are wrong and that's not going to happen is it?

Paul PLAINLY is not saying that we gain righteousness by the Law.

That's funny how you twist scripture thinking you understand but try to make it say the opposite of what it is actually conveying.

Romans 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

See? its all part of this thought. The Law CAN'T give you righteousness.

 

[walknlight]

Hi!

I would simply point out that we can be perfected in this life

Possible, not probable....

All MEn will always lack "one thing" , until glorification.......
All men have their vice(s)

God Bless!!!

 

[Grandpa]

You have no idea why Paul said the righteousness of the Law is fulfilled in us, do you?

Right...

How many times have I explained it to you?

That's not the only place Paul explains this idea to you.

Galatians 3:2-3
2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?

(Or "Do you still think the law can give you righteousness???)

2 Corinthians 3:5-6
5 Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God;
6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

Galatians 3:21-22
21 Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.

22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.



You can't take 1 scripture and try to twist it to mean the opposite of what Paul was trying to convey. He says the same things in different ways in different epistles.


Apparently you didn't understand any of them. Or you have Paul arguing with his own self.

 

[Grandpa]

Righteousness does not come by the law, it comes solely through faith in Jesus Christ.

We are justified solely through faith in the blood of Jesus Christ.

That being said, when we know that we know that we have been justified through faith in the blood of Jesus Christ, we will be blessed if we look into the perfect law of liberty and continue in it (James 1:25). It is not our righteousness but our wisdom, therefore, that we find when we seek to obey the moral tenets in the Old and New Testaments.

If you knew you were justified by Christ then there would be no need for you to go back to the 10 commandments.

And you STILL conflate the Law of Liberty with the 10 commandments. You are so wrong.

YOU have James contradicting Paul. You know you MUST be in error, right?

You have James saying continue in the Law vs Paul saying don't go back to the Law.

You REALLY think the apostles contradict each other? REALLY?

Galatians 5:1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.



Our wisdom??? Call back when you find some.

 

[justbyfaith]

Paul isn't saying that we obtain righteousness from the Law.

He is saying the opposite.

He is saying that the Law CANNOT give righteousness because it is weak through the flesh. But we can obtain the righteousness DESCRIBED by the law through our walk in the Spirit.


You try to twist Pauls words to say that the Law gives righteousness???

He would NEVER have said Romans 8:2 if he was going to turn around and say the Law gives righteousness. You are missing his whole point.

I think that I am in agreement with you there, @Grandpa.

The righteousness that God gives when we walk according to the Spirit is not obtained when we attempt to obey a set of do's and don'ts...

It is obtained when we receive the Spirit by faith (Galatians 3:14) and then begin to walk according to that Spirit (Galatians 5:22-23, Romans 8:4).

The righteousness that we obtain through this faith walk amounts to obedience to the law; although it is obtained through a venue that is different than seeking to obey a set of do's and don'ts.

That being said, it is not necessarily a sin to look at what the law requires and to seek to obey it (we would certainly be remiss, if, after seeing what it says, we sought to disobey it!).

For if we look into the perfect law of liberty and continue in it, we will be blessed in what we do (James 1:25).

And also, if we were to turn away our ears from hearing the law, even our prayer would be an abomination (Proverbs 28:9).

So, we should look into the perfect law of liberty (every moral tenet in the Old and New Testaments) and not seek to disobey what we find written therein. As a matter of fact, we ought to seek to obey it as being the specifics of God's commandment to every believer that we love one another.

If we see our obedience to the commandments as being specifically how to love as God commanded, I believe that we will be reduced to love in our obedience to the commandments and the path will be easier.

Because when we study the commandments, we will see them as a more specific way of loving our neighbor; and therefore when the time comes to love our neighbor in the manner that is prescribed, we will simply do so as an extension of the love that has been shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost.

When we obey that commandment out of love, we will very likely think, Oh yes, that is a commandment!

Our obedience to that commandment will be a specific outworking of the love of the Lord that has been shed abroad in our hearts through the Holy Ghost.

 

[justbyfaith]

Paul PLAINLY is not saying that we gain righteousness by the Law.

That's funny how you twist scripture thinking you understand but try to make it say the opposite of what it is actually conveying.

Romans 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

See? its all part of this thought. The Law CAN'T give you righteousness.

Again, I agree.

Righteousness is obtained by faith in Jesus Christ; and the righteousness of the law is fulfilled in us through that faith; as we walk not after the flesh but after the Spirit (Romans 8:4).

 

[justbyfaith]

Hi!

Possible, not probable....

All MEn will always lack "one thing" , until glorification.......
All men have their vice(s)

God Bless!!!

Men who do not surrender their vices to the Lord may find themselves judged as workers / doers of iniquity on that day (Matthew 7:23, Matthew 25:41; Matthew 13:41-42).

 

[Duckybill]

I don't know of anyone who obeys the Law of Moses, especially the Law preachers!