Is the teaching of Jesus before His crucifixion only for Jews?

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Jan 12, 2019
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#42
Like when Jesus ask His disciple to preach the gospel to all nation.
That command applicable for us.
What about his command in Luke to start that preaching from Jerusalem? Was that applicable to you as well?
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
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#43
You do agree however, that, during those 7 years, those unsaved Jews cannot rely on Romans 4:5 and worketh not, to be saved correct?

They have to follow the doctrine given in James 2, as well as in 1 Peter, 1 John and Jude, in order to receive their salvation at the end when Jesus return for them.
Are you talking about citizen of Israel or American jews
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
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#47
A Judaizer was one who insisted that faith in Christ was not enough for salvation. He insisted that Christians must also be Torah observant in order to be saved (including the works of the Law). The issue of circumcision was a good example. And Paul addressed this matter in the epistle to the Galatians.
This reasoning is fleshly, to start with, not from the Lord. Then you say that the works of the law should not be, and that would mean that anything we do physically to obey the law of the Lord is wrong. Telling the truth, then, becomes wrong for instance.

When Paul went to the Christian counsel;, to James who was the head, and they spoke of what gentiles needed to do to be included at synagogue, it was only said that the gentiles did not need to follow Jewish customs. James did not say that the law was cancelled, for all law is based on love and love is not cancelled. You would be saying that we may not do anything to show love or you would be a Judaizer, for love is the work of the law.
 
Jan 12, 2019
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#49
Now you are just being deliberately awkward.
No, my simple point was that, there is no way we can obey everything Jesus commanded the 11 to do, after he resurrected.

Those who claim they do are kidding themselves. And I have yet to bring in Mark and John version of the GC.

So that is an obvious hint that the Great Commission was only directed to that group, just like the commandment to build an ark was directed only to Noah. For good reason, none of us should be building any ark now.
 
Jun 11, 2020
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#50
How about this verse, for us or for Jews only

Luke 0

25 On one occasion an expert in the law stood up to test Jesus. “Teacher,” he asked, “what must I do to inherit eternal life?”

26 “What is written in the Law?” he replied. “How do you read it?”

27 He answered, “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind’[a]; and, ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’

28 “You have answered correctly,” Jesus replied. “Do this and you will live.”

Read full chapter
You have hit on a great subject. But first let me answer directly in case you discard the rest. The Law is ONLY given to Israel. It only applies to Israel and anyone who lived within their borders. So without any explanation, this teaching applies to Israel.

BUT ....

Do you know the difference between INHERITING LIFE and HAVING LIFE? There are two sets of scriptures. One set of scriptures show how to HAVE (intrinsically) Life, and they are always connected to FAITH, e.g. John 3:15; "That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life." And there are another set of scriptures that show how to ENTER or INHERIT Life as a REWARD or POSSESSION, and they are always connected to WORKS, e.g. Mark 10:17; "And when he was gone forth into the way, there came one running, and kneeled to him, and asked him, Good Master, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life?"

The explanation of this difference is seen in Mark 9:43-48;

43 "And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:
44 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
45 And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:
46 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
47 And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire:
48 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched."


It is at once clear that our Lord uses "entering LIFE" (vs.43, 45) INTERCHANGEABLY with "entering the Kingdom of God" (v.47). The Kingdom of God is that Kingdom predcited in Daniel Chapter 2 when God crushes Gentile rule on earth and has His will done on earth, as our Lord Jesus prayed in Matthew 6:10, "Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven." It is for this Kingdom that we are to be born again and Baptized (Jn.3:3-5). So faith is for rebirth were we HAVE Eternal Life (Jn.3:15-16), and when those who HAVE this LIFE, become co-kings with Christ, it is ENTERING a Kingdom of LIFE. The mark of this present earthly government is that the Gentiles, who are "dead in their sins", rule. The mark of the coming Kingdom of God on this earth is that it is a RULE by men who HAVE Eternal Life. Their reign will be permeated by the divine nature.

So, to HAVE LIFE one needs FAITH, but to ENTER the (Kingdom of) LIFE one needs righteous WORKS. In the scripture above from Mark, one is cut ut of the Kingdom because of OFFENSE - a work. This is clearly stated in Matthew 7:21-23. Only those who DO the will of God may enter the Kingdom. So when the Israelite in Luke 10 asked about entering, or inheriting LIFE, He was told to do the will of God - which for the Israelite - THE LAW. But once Israel, as a nation, had rejected Christ, He formally rips the Kingdom from them as a nation (Matt.21:43). Christ then raises up a "New Man" for this job of reigning. The rules then change. A New Birth is required to make one "partaker of the divine nature" (2nd Pet.1:4), and the Law as a means to ENTER LIFE (or the Kingdom), is nailed to the cross. From then on, INHERITING the Kingdom is achieved by "being led" by the indwelling Spirit of God (Rom.8:14, 17).

The thing to remember is that one is SAVED by FAITH. The process of atonement, rebirth, justification and sanctification is by what we BELIEVE. But we are saved FOR the Kingdom. That is the goal of salvation. But the Kingdom is only to be had by proving, by your OBEDIENCE to God. This is achieved by WORKS. You HAVE LIFE by FAITH, and you ENTER, or INHERIT LIFE (the Kingdom) by WORKS. One is an intrinsic CONDITION of being a son of God. The other is a REWARD for OBEDIENCE.

 
Jan 12, 2019
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#51
You have hit on a great subject. But first let me answer directly in case you discard the rest. The Law is ONLY given to Israel. It only applies to Israel and anyone who lived within their borders. So without any explanation, this teaching applies to Israel.

BUT ....

Do you know the difference between INHERITING LIFE and HAVING LIFE? There are two sets of scriptures. One set of scriptures show how to HAVE (intrinsically) Life, and they are always connected to FAITH, e.g. John 3:15; "That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life." And there are another set of scriptures that show how to ENTER or INHERIT Life as a REWARD or POSSESSION, and they are always connected to WORKS, e.g. Mark 10:17; "And when he was gone forth into the way, there came one running, and kneeled to him, and asked him, Good Master, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life?"

The explanation of this difference is seen in Mark 9:43-48;

43 "And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:
44 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
45 And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:
46 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
47 And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire:
48 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched."


It is at once clear that our Lord uses "entering LIFE" (vs.43, 45) INTERCHANGEABLY with "entering the Kingdom of God" (v.47). The Kingdom of God is that Kingdom predcited in Daniel Chapter 2 when God crushes Gentile rule on earth and has His will done on earth, as our Lord Jesus prayed in Matthew 6:10, "Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven." It is for this Kingdom that we are to be born again and Baptized (Jn.3:3-5). So faith is for rebirth were we HAVE Eternal Life (Jn.3:15-16), and when those who HAVE this LIFE, become co-kings with Christ, it is ENTERING a Kingdom of LIFE. The mark of this present earthly government is that the Gentiles, who are "dead in their sins", rule. The mark of the coming Kingdom of God on this earth is that it is a RULE by men who HAVE Eternal Life. Their reign will be permeated by the divine nature.

So, to HAVE LIFE one needs FAITH, but to ENTER the (Kingdom of) LIFE one needs righteous WORKS. In the scripture above from Mark, one is cut ut of the Kingdom because of OFFENSE - a work. This is clearly stated in Matthew 7:21-23. Only those who DO the will of God may enter the Kingdom. So when the Israelite in Luke 10 asked about entering, or inheriting LIFE, He was told to do the will of God - which for the Israelite - THE LAW. But once Israel, as a nation, had rejected Christ, He formally rips the Kingdom from them as a nation (Matt.21:43). Christ then raises up a "New Man" for this job of reigning. The rules then change. A New Birth is required to make one "partaker of the divine nature" (2nd Pet.1:4), and the Law as a means to ENTER LIFE (or the Kingdom), is nailed to the cross. From then on, INHERITING the Kingdom is achieved by "being led" by the indwelling Spirit of God (Rom.8:14, 17).

The thing to remember is that one is SAVED by FAITH. The process of atonement, rebirth, justification and sanctification is by what we BELIEVE. But we are saved FOR the Kingdom. That is the goal of salvation. But the Kingdom is only to be had by proving, by your OBEDIENCE to God. This is achieved by WORKS. You HAVE LIFE by FAITH, and you ENTER, or INHERIT LIFE (the Kingdom) by WORKS. One is an intrinsic CONDITION of being a son of God. The other is a REWARD for OBEDIENCE.
Curious, are you equating kingdom to heaven here?

Do you think the Jews were thinking like that too, during the 4 gospels?
 
Jun 11, 2020
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#52
Curious, are you equating kingdom to heaven here?

Do you think the Jews were thinking like that too, during the 4 gospels?
Not at all. If you read trough my posting again you will see how careful I was to say "earth". God's plan in Genesis 1:26-28 was for the earth. God's promise to Abraham was for the earth. Daniel's prediction was a Kingdom "that filled the earth". Jesus prays "thy Kingdom come, thy will be done on the earth". Luke 19:17-19 gives the Overcoming Christian cities on earth. Jesus is King of the Jews. They aspire to a Land - Canaan. Jesus will live in Jerusalem (Zech.14:16) in the next age.

The whole matter is one of God's government ON EARTH. It is the Kingdom (out) OF Heaven, not the Kingdom IN Heaven.
 
Jan 12, 2019
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#53
Not at all. If you read trough my posting again you will see how careful I was to say "earth". God's plan in Genesis 1:26-28 was for the earth. God's promise to Abraham was for the earth. Daniel's prediction was a Kingdom "that filled the earth". Jesus prays "thy Kingdom come, thy will be done on the earth". Luke 19:17-19 gives the Overcoming Christian cities on earth. Jesus is King of the Jews. They aspire to a Land - Canaan. Jesus will live in Jerusalem (Zech.14:16) in the next age.

The whole matter is one of God's government ON EARTH. It is the Kingdom (out) OF Heaven, not the Kingdom IN Heaven.
Yes I am Glad you clarified.

But for us non Jews, you mean to say that kingdom on earth is also promised to us, in the body of Christ?
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
17,176
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#54
Not at all. If you read trough my posting again you will see how careful I was to say "earth". God's plan in Genesis 1:26-28 was for the earth. God's promise to Abraham was for the earth. Daniel's prediction was a Kingdom "that filled the earth". Jesus prays "thy Kingdom come, thy will be done on the earth". Luke 19:17-19 gives the Overcoming Christian cities on earth. Jesus is King of the Jews. They aspire to a Land - Canaan. Jesus will live in Jerusalem (Zech.14:16) in the next age.

The whole matter is one of God's government ON EARTH. It is the Kingdom (out) OF Heaven, not the Kingdom IN Heaven.
The Jews are God’s earthly, physical people and their kingdom is an earthly kingdom. The body of Christ is God’s heavenly spiritual people.
 
Jun 11, 2020
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#55
Yes I am Glad you clarified.

But for us non Jews, you mean to say that kingdom on earth is also promised to us, in the body of Christ?
Yes. by being IN Christ, and having proceeded out of Him (Jn.12:24), we are Abraham's seed (Gal.3:29). Abraham has three seeds;
  1. Christ
  2. Israel - as the sand of the sea shore
  3. The Church - as the stars of heaven
Christ and the Church are HEIR to the whole world (Rom.4:13). Israel, having forfeit the Kingdom (Matt.21:43) are only heirs to Canaan now.
 

jb

Senior Member
Feb 27, 2010
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#56
Some people believe not all New Testament is for Christian, and some believe the book of James only for the nation of Israel.

What do you take on this view?
The idea that bits of the New Testament Scriptures is for Jews (only) and not for Christians is complete and utter nonsense!

ALL the New Testament Scriptures (and indeed ALL the OT Scriptures as well) are for Christians! 2Tim 3v16

Any other view is ERRONEOUS!
 
Jun 11, 2020
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#57
The Jews are God’s earthly, physical people and their kingdom is an earthly kingdom. The body of Christ is God’s heavenly spiritual people.
Yes. Their calling is heavenly (Heb.3:11), they are born "from above" (lit. Gk. - Jn.3:3), their nature is heavenly and their new bodies are fashioned in heaven (2nd Cor.5:1-3). "Heavenly" does not mean the place they inherit. It means the "NATURE" and "ORIGIN" they possess. So also "spiritual". They are born of the Spirit (Jn.3:6), they are transformed by the Spirit (2nd Cor.3:18), they are resurrected by the Spirit (Rom.8:11) and we constitute a "Spiritual House" (1st Pet.2:5). That is, our origin, constitution, nourishment and source is the Holy Spirit. That makes us "spiritual". We are not "spirit" in constitution" but because our origin is the Holy Spirit, we are "spiritual". "Spiritual" denotes our nature.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
17,176
3,700
113
#58
The idea that bits of the New Testament Scriptures is for Jews (only) and not for Christians is complete and utter nonsense!

ALL the New Testament Scriptures (and indeed ALL the OT Scriptures as well) are for Christians! 2Tim 3v16

Any other view is ERRONEOUS!
Well, the New Testament does not begin until the death of the testator. The Jews before the cross had no clue about the cross. Why? It was not being taught.
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
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#59
So you do admit you are not following all that he commanded, correct?
Yes! It was to all of us.
Only what is relevant for me. But James teaching about faith without work is dead, is applicable for every Christian. It is like when your teacher say, you need oxygen for breathe. The teacher talk to you, not to me, but it is applicable to me and every body
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
11,769
1,371
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#60
Well, the New Testament does not begin until the death of the testator. The Jews before the cross had no clue about the cross. Why? It was not being taught.
Jesus say

Mark 16
15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

Gospel, matt, mark, Luke and john is for all nations, not only for jews