Is the human soul immortal?
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“that thou keep this commandment without spot, unrebukeable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ: which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of Lords; who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.”
1 Timothy 6:14-16 KJV
1 Timothy 6:14-16 KJV
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1 Timothy 6:16
... God, the blessed and only Ruler, the King of kings and Lord of lords, Who alone is immortal and Who lives in
unapproachable light, Whom no one has seen or can see. To Him be honor and might forever. Amen. 1 Timothy 6:15b-16
You are welcome
... God, the blessed and only Ruler, the King of kings and Lord of lords, Who alone is immortal and Who lives in
unapproachable light, Whom no one has seen or can see. To Him be honor and might forever. Amen. 1 Timothy 6:15b-16
You are welcome
remember it was Jesus also who formed adam and gave him his spirit
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I disagree with a literal interpretation of that because Revelation uses a form of Biblical wording referred to as apocalyptic language. All we have to just prove that forever doesn't mean forever and it's actually pretty easy and crystal clear in the scripture.
Edom burning forever (just one example there are more)
Isaiah 34:9-10 KJV
9And the streams thereof shall be turned into pitch, and the dust thereof into brimstone, and the land thereof shall become burning pitch.
10It shall not be quenched night nor day; the smoke thereof shall go up for ever: from generation to generation it shall lie waste; none shall pass through it for ever and ever.
The above passage is about a physical place on Earth called Edom said to be burning forever. It's not burning forever because in the present day there isn't an eternal fire there. Forever is added for dramatic effect. It also uses the phrase "the smoke thereof shall go up forever" which is later borrowed as inspiration in writing Revelation 14:11 "...And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever:..." This is called apocalyptic language.
Furthermore, your passages only show three literal people burning forever not everyone.
Your argument is weak and needs revision.
Now, there are a myriad of verses about souls not living forever, dying, or being destroyed. Why do you insist souls will live forever when the word of God refutes you?
Edom burning forever (just one example there are more)
Isaiah 34:9-10 KJV
9And the streams thereof shall be turned into pitch, and the dust thereof into brimstone, and the land thereof shall become burning pitch.
10It shall not be quenched night nor day; the smoke thereof shall go up for ever: from generation to generation it shall lie waste; none shall pass through it for ever and ever.
The above passage is about a physical place on Earth called Edom said to be burning forever. It's not burning forever because in the present day there isn't an eternal fire there. Forever is added for dramatic effect. It also uses the phrase "the smoke thereof shall go up forever" which is later borrowed as inspiration in writing Revelation 14:11 "...And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever:..." This is called apocalyptic language.
Furthermore, your passages only show three literal people burning forever not everyone.
Your argument is weak and needs revision.
Now, there are a myriad of verses about souls not living forever, dying, or being destroyed. Why do you insist souls will live forever when the word of God refutes you?
While I agree with your fundamental statement - the BODY is "material" and the "SPIRIT" and "SOUL" are immaterial - I must take exception to the idea that there is a waiting for the eternal body.
The idea of "waiting" is an improper understanding of the Temporal View versus the Eternal View. Waiting for the "Resurrection" is a temporal view of Biblical accounts. Everyone in time (Temporal) is waiting on the Resurrection. However, when one steps into eternity, at the point of death, that ones spirit and soul is joined to it's eternal body. That one, then, is with the Lord or is in eternal punishment. For that one, the Resurrection has already taken place, if you will. For us, in our temporal existence, it is still future.
Note the following from the Scriptures:
1) At the mount of Transfiguration, Moses and Elijah were already in their bodies. (Mat. 17:3)
2) The rich man, (Luke 16), is said to have "lifted up his eyes" and he requested a cooling of his "tongue", both indicate that he already possessed a body and had been judged and found wanting.
3) Paul had an earnest desire to be with the Lord but surely he did not have an earnest desire to be disembodied. (Phi. 1:23)
There are many other examples but the teaching of a "waiting" still continues to be taught. Something to think about.
The idea of "waiting" is an improper understanding of the Temporal View versus the Eternal View. Waiting for the "Resurrection" is a temporal view of Biblical accounts. Everyone in time (Temporal) is waiting on the Resurrection. However, when one steps into eternity, at the point of death, that ones spirit and soul is joined to it's eternal body. That one, then, is with the Lord or is in eternal punishment. For that one, the Resurrection has already taken place, if you will. For us, in our temporal existence, it is still future.
Note the following from the Scriptures:
1) At the mount of Transfiguration, Moses and Elijah were already in their bodies. (Mat. 17:3)
2) The rich man, (Luke 16), is said to have "lifted up his eyes" and he requested a cooling of his "tongue", both indicate that he already possessed a body and had been judged and found wanting.
3) Paul had an earnest desire to be with the Lord but surely he did not have an earnest desire to be disembodied. (Phi. 1:23)
There are many other examples but the teaching of a "waiting" still continues to be taught. Something to think about.
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sister isn’t it Gods word that provides eternal life along with the blood of atonement ?
“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”
John 5:24 KJV
We know that Adam was actually created for life by Jesus in the beginning , but Adam rejected his word and instead followed satans which brought death to mankind.
“And the LORD God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it.
And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.”
Genesis 2:15-17 KJV
Breaking this command brought death because it’s the same creative word that creates all things. had Adam ( the man and his wife ) believed Gods word rather than this word
“And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:”
Genesis 3:4 KJV
would this have ever happened ?
“Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:”
Romans 5:12
That command given to Adam after God places him in Eden and gave him permission to eat from the tree of life was intended to keep them in life , but when they rejected what God said and accepted what Satan said it became death
“And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death. For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.”
Romans 7:10-11 KJV
remember the atonement was from the beginning but also the word of life was there. Had adam had faith hearing and believing Gods word , would he have brought sin and death into being or would he have dwelt with God in life ?
“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. In him was life; and the life was the light of men.”
John 1:1-4
from the beginning it seems God gave mankind a choice to not eat the fruit and live in his presence , and then Satan added the other choice to eat the fruit and be expelled from his presence and die.
the blood is very important it’s what gives us atonement for sin that passed upon all bringing death , but the word is life if we believe. From the beginning God had forbid man from certain death , but man failed to believe what he said and partook of death based on breaking his word of life.
“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”
John 5:24 KJV
We know that Adam was actually created for life by Jesus in the beginning , but Adam rejected his word and instead followed satans which brought death to mankind.
“And the LORD God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it.
And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.”
Genesis 2:15-17 KJV
Breaking this command brought death because it’s the same creative word that creates all things. had Adam ( the man and his wife ) believed Gods word rather than this word
“And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:”
Genesis 3:4 KJV
would this have ever happened ?
“Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:”
Romans 5:12
That command given to Adam after God places him in Eden and gave him permission to eat from the tree of life was intended to keep them in life , but when they rejected what God said and accepted what Satan said it became death
“And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death. For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.”
Romans 7:10-11 KJV
remember the atonement was from the beginning but also the word of life was there. Had adam had faith hearing and believing Gods word , would he have brought sin and death into being or would he have dwelt with God in life ?
“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. In him was life; and the life was the light of men.”
John 1:1-4
from the beginning it seems God gave mankind a choice to not eat the fruit and live in his presence , and then Satan added the other choice to eat the fruit and be expelled from his presence and die.
the blood is very important it’s what gives us atonement for sin that passed upon all bringing death , but the word is life if we believe. From the beginning God had forbid man from certain death , but man failed to believe what he said and partook of death based on breaking his word of life.
That word only means "the end of the world". Most of the book IS literal. The things that John couldn't identify with his 1st Century eyes he used the best language that he could to describe them. There is NOTHING in Rev 20 that is "figurative" language. John was describing what will occur at the end of the Tribulation, and at the end of the Millennium, and then what happens to unbelievers.
Rev 20:10 is as literal and clear as possible.
Edom burning
Isaiah 34:9-10 KJV
9And the streams thereof shall be turned into pitch, and the dust thereof into brimstone, and the land thereof shall become burning pitch.
10It shall not be quenched night nor day; the smoke thereof shall go up for ever: from generation to generation it shall lie waste; none shall pass through it for ever and ever.[/QUOTE]
Has anyone passed through Edom since then? Will anyone EVER pass through Edom?
OK.
Still OK.
However, the very LAST phrase is quite literal. When "ever" is attached to "forever" we are getting a clear message.
I just love CONTEXT. It always clears the smoke.
v.11-15 are about the GWT judgment and where EVERYONE who attends the GWT judgment will be cast: the VERY SAME PLACE as:
1. the beast (aka a/c) human being
2. FP human being
3. Satan angel
4. not stated but should be obvious: ALL the fallen angels/demons
So, v11 does NOT stand out as separate from v.11-15.
The very verse you quoted for your position has been shown to be weak and needs revision. The very last phrase is quite literal.
Maybe you didn't read all of the posts following the OP. I did. And there were excellent posts that explained HOW the word "soul" was used in the ancient world. It meant the person. It wasn't used to distinguish the immaterial from the material.
So, all you post about "souls destroyed, etc" are simply describing people dying. NOT "souls" in the immaterial sense, as you are doing.
You are free to dismiss Rev 20:10-15 as being "figurative" or "apocalyptic" all you want, but what is very clear is that 2 human beings are already IN the lake of fire, and they ARE being tormented day and night forever and ever.
You can dismiss the words "day and night forever and ever" but that is clear language describing literally lasting forever.
The Word of God has not refuted me at all.
You seem to be just looking for excuses to dismiss the reality that unbelievers and all fallen angels will "be tormented day and night forever and ever".
I take that literally because there is NO OTHER WAY to understand it.
When the Bible says "day and night" that refers to TIME. When "forever and ever" are added to "day and night", it means TIME UNENDING.
Some people are annihilationists because they just can't come to grips with the idea that God will allow human beings to suffer for an eternity. Well, He will allow that. And that includes all fallen angels, for whom the lake of fire was prepared in the first place.
So both humans and angels will exist in that place "day and night forever and ever". You can take that however you want, but I take that as literal as it sounds.
Rev 20:10 is as literal and clear as possible.
Edom burning
Isaiah 34:9-10 KJV
9And the streams thereof shall be turned into pitch, and the dust thereof into brimstone, and the land thereof shall become burning pitch.
10It shall not be quenched night nor day; the smoke thereof shall go up for ever: from generation to generation it shall lie waste; none shall pass through it for ever and ever.[/QUOTE]
Has anyone passed through Edom since then? Will anyone EVER pass through Edom?
OK.
Still OK.
However, the very LAST phrase is quite literal. When "ever" is attached to "forever" we are getting a clear message.
I just love CONTEXT. It always clears the smoke.
v.11-15 are about the GWT judgment and where EVERYONE who attends the GWT judgment will be cast: the VERY SAME PLACE as:
1. the beast (aka a/c) human being
2. FP human being
3. Satan angel
4. not stated but should be obvious: ALL the fallen angels/demons
So, v11 does NOT stand out as separate from v.11-15.
The very verse you quoted for your position has been shown to be weak and needs revision. The very last phrase is quite literal.
Maybe you didn't read all of the posts following the OP. I did. And there were excellent posts that explained HOW the word "soul" was used in the ancient world. It meant the person. It wasn't used to distinguish the immaterial from the material.
So, all you post about "souls destroyed, etc" are simply describing people dying. NOT "souls" in the immaterial sense, as you are doing.
You are free to dismiss Rev 20:10-15 as being "figurative" or "apocalyptic" all you want, but what is very clear is that 2 human beings are already IN the lake of fire, and they ARE being tormented day and night forever and ever.
You can dismiss the words "day and night forever and ever" but that is clear language describing literally lasting forever.
The Word of God has not refuted me at all.
You seem to be just looking for excuses to dismiss the reality that unbelievers and all fallen angels will "be tormented day and night forever and ever".
I take that literally because there is NO OTHER WAY to understand it.
When the Bible says "day and night" that refers to TIME. When "forever and ever" are added to "day and night", it means TIME UNENDING.
Some people are annihilationists because they just can't come to grips with the idea that God will allow human beings to suffer for an eternity. Well, He will allow that. And that includes all fallen angels, for whom the lake of fire was prepared in the first place.
So both humans and angels will exist in that place "day and night forever and ever". You can take that however you want, but I take that as literal as it sounds.
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yes another point we should consider is that those in hell will be resurrected at the judgement and hell itself cast into the lake of fire
“And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.”
Revelation 20:13-14 KJV
so the verses about people suffering in hell are very true and are happening now concurrently with life on earth , but hell is not permanent those in hell will
Be raised up to face judgement in the end. And even hell Itself will be cast into the second death
“And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.”
Revelation 20:13-14 KJV
so the verses about people suffering in hell are very true and are happening now concurrently with life on earth , but hell is not permanent those in hell will
Be raised up to face judgement in the end. And even hell Itself will be cast into the second death
No.
The single passage I showed you from Isaiah 34 is more than enough to make your interpretation doubtful. You have presented no proof for why the verses you quoted in Revelation 19 and 20 are literal, when there’s verses to the contrary showing they aren’t literal. I proved forever is not forever in Isaiah 34.
I’m not going to go round and round in a debate with you on this since I already made your interpretation doubtful at the beginning. I think at this point you should try to prove why your interpretation is literal. Then I will see that as something worth considering.
The single passage I showed you from Isaiah 34 is more than enough to make your interpretation doubtful. You have presented no proof for why the verses you quoted in Revelation 19 and 20 are literal, when there’s verses to the contrary showing they aren’t literal. I proved forever is not forever in Isaiah 34.
I’m not going to go round and round in a debate with you on this since I already made your interpretation doubtful at the beginning. I think at this point you should try to prove why your interpretation is literal. Then I will see that as something worth considering.
Since Christ came and poured out His Holy Spirit to the Apostles, HE informed them of spiritual matters pertaining to the Kingdom to Righteousness and Judgment.
We have been informed thru Scripture that we were created triune with a spirit/soul/body.
When the physical body dies only the physical body returns to the dust/grave.
The soul of man continues on to one of two places:
A.) Eternal life for those who have been washed in the Blood of Lamb slain since the foundation of the world.
B.) Sheol/Hades for the soul whose sins remain on them.
C.) there is no Babylonian/Catholic purgatory = it does not exist
The sting of Death is sin and sin brought to death both the soul of man and the physical body of man.
Therefore Death of both parts brought separation from Elohim, our Creator.
The Blood washed souls in Heaven are ALIVE, fully conscious, and with Elohim Father Elohim Son Elohim Holy Spirit right now.
The unwashed, whose souls/spirits never experienced the New Birth in Christ remain separated from Elohim in full consciousness of their agony.
All Saints are awaiting for Christ's Second Coming wherein HE first resurrects those whose bodies died when their souls lived in Him on earth.
ONLY at His Second Coming does the First Resurrection of mortal bodies put on Immortality into Glorified Bodies.
Later there will be the resurrection of the Dead who stand before the Great White Throne Judgment the Second Death.
Nope. The human soul is not immortal. Only Yahweh is immortal. Not even angels are immortal. Eternal life is conditional and depends upon our god Yahweh to grant it.
The lost receives the eternal punishment of dying a second time ( second death ) with no hope of resurrection. A good book on this is Edward Fudge’s “ The Fire That Consumes “. Also the “ Rethinking Hell Podcast” hosted by Chris Date.
The lost receives the eternal punishment of dying a second time ( second death ) with no hope of resurrection. A good book on this is Edward Fudge’s “ The Fire That Consumes “. Also the “ Rethinking Hell Podcast” hosted by Chris Date.
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There’s obviously a kind of sorting prior to the final judgement just to put souls where they go. There are three possible destinations for the lost: hell, the sea, and death.
Revelation 20:13 KJV
13And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
Hell = a physical grave in the earth.
The sea = a physical grave in the ocean or body of water
Death= those who had their soul destroyed in hell. Yes I believe God can resurrect a destroyed soul.
Matthew 10:28 KJV
28And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
I hope this shines a bit of clarification light on the subject by cross examining these verses.
Revelation 20:13 KJV
13And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
Hell = a physical grave in the earth.
The sea = a physical grave in the ocean or body of water
Death= those who had their soul destroyed in hell. Yes I believe God can resurrect a destroyed soul.
Matthew 10:28 KJV
28And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
I hope this shines a bit of clarification light on the subject by cross examining these verses.
In the Bible 99% of the time hell is a English translation of the word gehenna. Once it may have been tarus but in general hell is gehenna. Hades , also translated as the grave is a separate place. The fiery place is hell and is most likely also the lake of fire which is just symbolism for the second death. Second death means just that. To die a second time. Just like the first time. Only the second time you don’t get a chance at resurrection again.
So it most likely is best understood as ( death and the grave is cast into hell ) . Death here is not a actual being. There is no grim reaper just like there is no giant vampiric Babylonian prostitute and just like rome won’t actually be cast into hell, yet all those places are said to be cast there.
It’s bad biblical hermeneutics to base literal doctrine off of the highly symbolic imagery of revelation.
So it most likely is best understood as ( death and the grave is cast into hell ) . Death here is not a actual being. There is no grim reaper just like there is no giant vampiric Babylonian prostitute and just like rome won’t actually be cast into hell, yet all those places are said to be cast there.
It’s bad biblical hermeneutics to base literal doctrine off of the highly symbolic imagery of revelation.
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You also mentioned the sea. You’ll notice in revelation, again highly symbolic, it mentions there is no sea in the restored heaven and earth. This imagery is hyperlinking back to genesis 1 where the sea is depicted as a place without creation. The home of chaos. The home of the “ sea monsters “ like Levithan. That’s why psalms 74 adds in that extra concept that is not found in genesis 1 and contradicts it.