Is the false teaching of pre-tribulation rapture, getting the power of "him" out of the way, who restrains the antichrist?

[Absolutely]

At the commencement of the millennium, the first resurrection (of those who died for their testimony of Christ, who will not die the second death):

Revelation 20 (New King James Version)
5 But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.

1 Thessalonians 4 (New King James Version)
16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first.

At the conclusion of the millennium, after Gog and Magog, at the Great White Throne Judgement, the second resurrection (remainder of all the dead, of which the saved will not die the second death, and the unsaved will die the second death):

Revelation 20 (New King James Version)
13 The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works.

""Revelation 20 (New King James Version)
5 But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the firstresurrection. 6 Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.

1 Thessalonians 4 (New King James Version)
16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first.""

Your deal is impossible.

Read rev 14.
(A gathering DURING THE GT)

So your deal is impossible.
Pssst.....your doctrine has the dead in Christ raised AFTER the gathering of the living.

Either that or Paul lied in 1 thes 4.

That alone TOTALLY DEBUNKS a postrib resurrection of the dead in Christ.

You are painted in a corner sir.

 

[BenjaminN]

No sir.....not all believers are carnal.

Even the apostle Paul complained of a thorn in his carnal flesh, but we resist our carnal nature, and sin, repent and are forgiven. We need Christ Yeshua, we can not do it on our own as thieves of God's glory.

 

[Absolutely]

How can you in your pretribulationist views suggest that the tribulation saints, as part of the bride of Christ Yeshua, will not be at the marriage supper of the bride of Christ Yeshua, at her rapture after the great tribulation. The marriage supper's position in Revelation 18 - 20 is positioned after the great tribulation and rapture of the bride.

It is positioned in heaven at the last super AND rev 19.
Go back and put those 2 together.

Postribbers have it reframed....changed.

 

[BenjaminN]

Read rev 19
The bride becomes the wife in heaven.

Jesus depicted his bride in heaven at the last supper.

It truly is a pretrib rapture.

THANK YOU JESUS!!!!!

The last supper supersedes the post-tribulation rapture. Read the chronologically written Revelation 18-20, and the chronologically written Matthew 24.

 

[Absolutely]

Even the apostle Paul complained of a thorn in his carnal flesh, but we resist our carnal nature, and sin, repent and are forgiven. We need Christ Yeshua, we can not do it on our own as thieves of God's glory.

If Paul was not walking Holy,he would have no authority to compel those carnal Corinthians to end their carnal behavior.
That alone gives you a basis for the 2 choices.
Carnal vs Walking in Holiness

 

[Absolutely]

The last supper supersedes the post-tribulation rapture. Read the chronologically written Revelation 18-20, and the chronologically written Matthew 24.

I am referencing Jesus words.
I listen to him.
Lay aside your work book and read Jesus words.

Of course it totally defies your thinking.

Of course it does.

That is the point.

 

[BenjaminN]

Read rev 14.
(A gathering DURING THE GT)

That is at the end of the tribulation - Babylon has fallen, this happens at the end, before the return of Christ Yeshua, and the rapture of his entire bride for the marriage supper before the millennium Kingdom (Revelation 18-20 will help with the chronology of Babylon's destruction, followed by the end of the tribulation, Christ Yeshua's return accompanied by the rapture of his entire living and resurrected bride, followed by Christ Yeshua and his armies destroying the remainder of those on earth, followed by the marriage supper of Christ Yeshua and his entire bride, followed by the millennial Kingdom.

 

[Absolutely]

Jesus said, in this world you will face tribulation, but be of good cheer, I have overcome this world.

Yep
Amen
Good point

 

[Absolutely]

That is at the end of the tribulation - Babylon has fallen, this happens at the end, before the return of Christ Yeshua, and the rapture of his entire bride for the marriage supper before the millennium Kingdom (Revelation 18-20 will help with the chronology of Babylon's destruction, followed by the end of the tribulation, Christ Yeshua's return accompanied by the rapture of his entire living and resurrected bride, followed by Christ Yeshua and his armies destroying the remainder of those on earth, followed by the marriage supper of Christ Yeshua and his entire bride, followed by the millennial Kingdom.

The 144 k are firstfruits
They are gathered just before the "ripe fruit" DURING THE GT.

Take another look.

We see Jesus on a cloud with a sickle.

Hello.... you need Jesus ON ACWHITE HORSE WITH MILLIONS OF SAINTS!!!!!!!

Your deal is TOTALLY IMPOSSIBLE.

I have Totally destroyed your doctrine and you are unaware?????

 

[Absolutely]

How can you in your pretribulationist views suggest that the tribulation saints, as part of the bride of Christ Yeshua, will not be at the marriage supper of the bride of Christ Yeshua, at her rapture after the great tribulation. The marriage supper's position in Revelation 18 - 20 is positioned after the great tribulation and rapture of the bride.

Thank God Jesus framed the rapture around the bride/groom dynamic.

Thank God.

For if that is omitted,we WILL NOT EVER get what end times is about.

 

[Absolutely]

Even the apostle Paul complained of a thorn in his carnal flesh, but we resist our carnal nature, and sin, repent and are forgiven. We need Christ Yeshua, we can not do it on our own as thieves of God's glory.

I totally agree.

 

[Absolutely]

It is positioned in heaven at the last super AND rev 19.
Go back and put those 2 together.

Postribbers have it reframed....changed.

^^^^^^^^^^THIS^^^^^^^^^

 

[SoulWeaver]

Pretribulational Rapture is taught because it is a Biblical fact.

It's a theory younger than 200 years though...

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

Thank you for your insights and scrutiny of the ESV translators. "Before his conception, his parents have always been married", is not contrary to: "From his conception, his parents have always been married". [...]

The two distinct phrases (pertaining to two entirely distinct things, and involving distinct persons) are:

--"FROM [G575 apo] the foundation of the world"; and

--BEFORE [G4253 pro] the foundation of the world"

[these are distinct, in Scripture, as are the things associated with them]

I could have used the NKJV, as well, without taking away or adding to what I communicated, God's saints experience the great tribulation, before their rapture and marriage supper with the Bridegroom Christ Yeshua, before the millennial Kingdom:

"the marriage FEAST/SUPPER" *IS* "the promised and prophesied earthly Millennial Kingdom, commencing upon His RETURN to the earth"... it is not what takes place UP IN Heaven (which is "the MARRIAGE" itself, pertaining SOLELY to "the Bride/Wife [SINGULAR]"). We "return" WITH HIM (at the Rev19 time-slot).

"The marriage FEAST/SUPPER" pertains to "the Guests [PLURAL]," and the "10 [or 5] Virgins/Bridesmaids [PLURAL]," and the "Servants/Attendants [PLURAL]" (of that specific, limited, future time-period leading UP TO the earthly MK age); all of whom are DISTINCT from "the Bride/Wife [SINGULAR]" (though we "return" WITH HIM--i.e. we will not be absent at the earthly-located "wedding FEAST/SUPPER [i.e. the MK age, or its inauguration]).


Lk12:36-37,38,40,42-44 "when he will RETURN FROM the wedding" (as an ALREADY-WED Bridegroom)... THEN the meal [G347], for one example...

 

[Absolutely]

It's a theory younger than 200 years though...

So an older theory is automatically correct?

Who was it that wrote "against heresies" over 1000 years ago?

Iraneus? (Or some such dead man?)

So Many heresies of the ancients that a book had to be written.

If the ancients are automatically correct then luther took a stand in vain.

In foxes book of martyrs the ancients killed believers of truth.
One of them was the pretrib rapture.
The Catholics burned "heretics" such as myself,AND THEIR WRITINGS .

THANK YOU JESUS!!!!!!!!

 

[Absolutely]

Jesus said "pray that you may be counted worthy to escape the things about to come upon the world and stand before the son of God. "

Only pretribs can pray that.

Hmmmmmmmm

 

[SoulWeaver]

So an older theory is automatically correct?

Who was it that wrote "against heresies" over 1000 years ago?

Iraneus? (Or some such dead man?)

So Many heresies of the ancients that a book had to be written.

If the ancients are automatically correct then luther took a stand in vain.

In foxes book of martyrs the ancients killed believers of truth.
One of them was the pretrib rapture.
The Catholics burned "heretics" such as myself,AND THEIR WRITINGS .

THANK YOU JESUS!!!!!!!!

I was just putting things into perspective. It's a fact that is unpleasant to hear.

The whole "rapture" theory makes no sense to many. It doesn't make sense with Greek used, among other things. I do take issue with those trying to batter us into "believing" it actually not it but their interpretation of it. And ugly attitude towards those who don't accept it.

 

[Absolutely]

Counted worthy.
Jesus said to pray to be with the worthy ones.
Ok. I will
Jesus,dont let me miss the rapture.

That is the correct way to prepare for the gt.

Be prepared.

 

[Absolutely]

I was just putting things into perspective. It's a fact that is unpleasant to hear.

The whole "rapture" theory makes no sense to many. It doesn't make sense with Greek used, among other things. I do take issue with people trying to batter us into believing it and ugly attitude towards those who don't accept it.

I dont see what you wrote as unpleasant.

But it is pleasant I am not listening to anchients that incorrectly viewed end times through the prism of a destroyed and scattered Israel.
Israel did not exist in their time period.

So you are basically seeing end times through that prism.

1947 changed the prophetic view.
Israel is now a nation.

Replacement theology attacks israel and denies there is a modern jew.

IOW they do not recognize jews as legit.

So yet another plus for not trying to be a adherent of those ancient's error.

 

[SoulWeaver]

I dont see what you wrote as unpleasant.

But it is pleasant I am not listening to anchients that incorrectly viewed end times through the prism of a destroyed and scattered Israel.
Israel did not exist in their time period.

So you are basically seeing end times through that prism.

1947 changed the prophetic view.
Israel is now a nation.

Replacement theology attacks israel and denies there is a modern jew.

IOW they do not recognize jews as legit.

So yet another plus for not trying to be a adherent of those ancient's error.

I don't see anything through any "prism".
I don't have a fixed position on so called end times. At some point I decided to focus on what can I do right now. I guess that's my position.