Is Socialism biblical?

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C

coby2

Guest
#41
LOL..was that a spoof?..or are they really raising money to help the Danes?
Lol they were raising money to help the Africans, but the Danes didn't want to. You see that here too. Oh poor us we have so little, we can't give to Africa or when refugees come the people complain because the welfare state has to be only for us, not for them. It's easy to tell rich people they have to pay for you, but then when they have to give to even poorer people it becomes a problem.
 

Jesus4ever

Senior Member
May 18, 2015
783
19
18
#42
One of the things I find curious about the Socialism/Left:

- The goal is to have equality in society, mostly about wealth distribution.
And how does equality start? With an inequality (progressive taxes - who earns more, pays more taxes, although it has the same benefits than those how pay less taxes. How´s that for equality?)


- Left usually says Right has no moral and that is has no justice and freedom in it.
I guess it´s moral to force some to help others, by saying "Now I´ll take this amount of money from you to give or distribute to these people who need or earn less than you", right?

It´s even fairer than helping only those who need, right?

And it´s all about freedom - you´re forced to pay for other´s retirement; you´re forced to pay for other´s health, even if the earn more than you; you´re forced to pay for couples who have kids, even you if can´t have them; you´re forced to pay for some specific ethnic groups, just because they are dangerous to society and because someone think they´re poor (even when they have gold and drive Mercedes); you´re forced to pay for those who don´t work and simply don´t want to work, so they´re granted with subsidies, even if they deserve it, etc. In fact this more moral, just and freer...

I can´t personally see how Socialism is biblical, to be honest.
 
Last edited:

hornetguy

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2016
6,945
1,561
113
#44
Social welfare programs are good, only if they are managed and monitored well. Nearly all social programs in the US are NOT managed well, and are probably not monitored at all. This is why many US citizens HATE paying taxes, because the stewardship of that money is not good.

I know of several people personally that receive some gov't assistance, and they truly need it. But, they sometimes don't get ENOUGH assistance, because of the corruption and mis-management of those systems. In a perfect world, our 30-39% tax money would be used to truly help those in need..... not the institutionally lazy welfare slugs that know no other way of life.

I basically "ran" our church's welfare ministry for about 7 years, but finally had to take a break from it, because I found myself becoming jaded to the folks "needing" help. We had an annual budget of around $60-70,000, and would usually be out of funds by October at the latest.
I was hearing the same stories over and over, and kept seeing single mothers with 3-5 kids that couldn't work because of some "disability". Most of them were healthier than me, for goodness sake. I think their disability was the lack of willingness to work.
Many of the people truly were in need of help... some of the situations I saw were simply overwhelming. Being able to help them was a blessing, but the day in day out working with just hopeless situations got to be too stressful, so I had to take a sabbatical.

So... the real need is there, but so is the opportunity for fraud on a grand scale, when there is no responsible management.
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
12,822
4,221
113
#45
I´ve been thinking about this subject very much. From what I´ve seen, there are different opinions about it. Some state the Socialism is biblical, other that only Capitalism is shown in the Bible. Others, say that Acts 2:44-46 supports Communism. Personally I tend to agree that Socialism is wrong and not biblical, and least of all Communism.


What´s your opinion? Do you think Socialism/Communism is biblical and/or pleases God?


God bless you!
very interesting post.

First I think we have to answer one very important question where did " Socialism come from and who used it first ?

Socialism literally sprang from observing the success of capitalism, while believing that conditions for workers could be improved if the control of production were moved from capitalists to the state. A top-down control system, such as that used in large business, was the model for socialist society. Yet the true engine of capitalism, the free market, was overlooked and left out of the plan.(CBC 1999-2009). Marx and Engels developed a body of ideas which they called scientific socialism, more commonly called Marxism. Marxism comprised a theory of history (historical materialism) as well as a political, economic and philosophical theory.

Carl Marx :[FONT=Merriweather, Georgia, Times New Roman, serif]In 1818, Karl Marx, descended from a long line of rabbis, was born in Prussian Rhineland. Marx's' father converted to Protestantism shortly before Karl's birth. karl Marx was not a christian, infact he was very hostile to the idea of religion. The roots of Socialism turn to Marxism = Communism = plan for man is done with NO GOD involved.

[/FONT]Most Christians are unaware that the arguments of socialism and the welfare State are nothing less than the ancient pagan view of the State forged by the fires of Moloch worship, ending in human sacrifice and slavery to the ruler’s desires. Worse yet, many Christian leaders call for socialism under the guise of Christian virtues like helping the poor and needy. Some leaders have worked hard to find biblical support for the State robbing from some and giving to others. Christians must learn to discern the devious rhetoric, and expose the wolves in sheep’s clothing that deceive Christians into Statism using Christian language and Bible passages.

Christians are both to confront the wolves and to respond to socialism with biblical answers. The answers to socialism are: “The King is not God,” and, “Thou Shalt Not Steal.” If Christians do not actively refute these principles of government, law, and economics, then we will move closer to the socialists’ vision of society. We will have more of Marx than Moses, more of Trotsky than Christ.

[FONT=Merriweather, Georgia, Times New Roman, serif] there is more to this but it would be a very long read. the Plan for man and women is found in the word of God

[/FONT]A biblical critique of socialism extends the lessons learned in the Garden of Eden. Satan asks, “Hath God said?” (Gen 3:1). Eve pondered Satan’s question, pondered the merits of his point of view versus God’s command. In doing so, she had already lost the debate. She placed herself in judgment over God’s word, and thus over God. By just questioning God’s word on the matter, the Devil planted the seeds of the humanistic ruin of mankind. By joining him in this regard, Eve secured that ruin.

The only avenue to repairing this ruin is through obedience to Jesus Christ. This path requires us to return to God’s word, and rebuild our lives, our families, churches, states and social order based upon God’s revealed way of life. The choice between God and socialism is the same as the choice between God and Satan. One leads to paradise, the other to delusion and hell. It is God versus Socialism, be sure of that.

It is interesting to note that two of the most evil men in the past century which are considered as of the extreme right of the political spectrum, were in fact socialists:

Adolf Hitler: was a member of the German Workers' Party but the name was later changed by Hitler to include the term National Socialist. Thus the full name was the National Socialist German Workers' Party (Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei or NSDAP) called for short, Nazi. Its notorious flag symbol, the swastika was deliberately turned 45 degrees to the horizontal and always oriented in the S-direction (the overlapping S standing for Socialism). The NSDAP called themselves ‘Socialist’ and not ‘Nazi’, and that infamously brutal force, the SS, using the same initials for socialism.”

Benito Mussolini: was a socialist. He was the leader of the Socialist Party of Italy. Like many modern politicians Mussolini was a socialist and a journalist. During WWI, Mussolini was a well-known socialist leader and writer. Mussolini profusely borrowed much of his symbolism from American Socialists. He founded the “Fasci di Combattimento” (Revolutionary Fascists) party, eventually becoming the National Fascist Party, ergo the term “Fascism”. Interesting to note that Mussolini considered himself all his life as a Socialist.[FONT=Merriweather, Georgia, Times New Roman, serif]
[/FONT] I do not see the founder of Socialism and it's close offsprings producing something that was liberating for man or women but only benefiting the strong and those who had control over others.

This was not the plan from the beginning God is to be our all in all not man , gov, king, or economy/economic systems.
 
C

coby2

Guest
#46
Sorry I just have to post this song.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Z8V-H2vC0_M
My name is Koos and I'm unemployed,

People say, go do work Koos!

Well, I would want to,

But only if it is a nice job!

Otherwise do not Koos.

Let Koos but fish on the waterfront,

I'm not gonna work at the assembly line

And Koos will also not fill any boxes,
to fill the pocket

of the manufacturer!

Ref.

Unemployed! {Nay}

Let me attend tasty

Unemployed! {Nay}

All that whining of:

Why do not you work Koos!

Koos Unemployed! {At} voice and Jekkers

Unemployed! {Nay}

Let me attend tasty

Unemployed! {Nay}

All that whining of:

Why do not you work Koos!

Koos Unemployed! {At} voice and Jekkers

Wam! Wam! {Nay repeats this while Jekkers sings:}

My brother John, who says it's a shame

says Koos use your hands man

But he works with his elbows,

Has his sheep on dry ...

Well before planting but Jan!

That political mafia in the Hague,

Which keeps cutting the minimums.

Well let them pay

Because nothing to be gained by Koos.

Sorry that I exist!


Look Hi, you often hear say, where should it go?

Later computers do all the work alone.

But people are still going fine so,

Free leisure gift

And that's for Koos no problem though!
 

hornetguy

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2016
6,945
1,561
113
#47
...and I'm not "dissing" single mothers at all.... please don't think that at all..I'm simply reporting what I saw. I also saw a lot of single mothers that were working their butts off to keep their kids fed and clothed, but were simply overwhelmed by life. These are the ones that break your heart... and you want to help each and every one of them.

Fortunately, my church sees benevolence work as a big priority... otherwise I wouldn't be there....
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
16,930
3,616
113
#48
There won't be socialism at the Judgment Seat of Christ. We will receive rewards or suffer the loss of rewards based on our labor for the Lord while on earth. Some will receive more than others. Some believers may not receive any.
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
12,822
4,221
113
#49
very interesting post.

First I think we have to answer one very important question where did " Socialism come from and who used it first ?

Socialism literally sprang from observing the success of capitalism, while believing that conditions for workers could be improved if the control of production were moved from capitalists to the state. A top-down control system, such as that used in large business, was the model for socialist society. Yet the true engine of capitalism, the free market, was overlooked and left out of the plan.(CBC 1999-2009). Marx and Engels developed a body of ideas which they called scientific socialism, more commonly called Marxism. Marxism comprised a theory of history (historical materialism) as well as a political, economic and philosophical theory.

Carl Marx :In 1818, Karl Marx, descended from a long line of rabbis, was born in Prussian Rhineland. Marx's' father converted to Protestantism shortly before Karl's birth. karl Marx was not a christian, infact he was very hostile to the idea of religion. The roots of Socialism turn to Marxism = Communism = plan for man is done with NO GOD involved.

Most Christians are unaware that the arguments of socialism and the welfare State are nothing less than the ancient pagan view of the State forged by the fires of Moloch worship, ending in human sacrifice and slavery to the ruler’s desires. Worse yet, many Christian leaders call for socialism under the guise of Christian virtues like helping the poor and needy. Some leaders have worked hard to find biblical support for the State robbing from some and giving to others. Christians must learn to discern the devious rhetoric, and expose the wolves in sheep’s clothing that deceive Christians into Statism using Christian language and Bible passages.

Christians are both to confront the wolves and to respond to socialism with biblical answers. The answers to socialism are: “The King is not God,” and, “Thou Shalt Not Steal.” If Christians do not actively refute these principles of government, law, and economics, then we will move closer to the socialists’ vision of society. We will have more of Marx than Moses, more of Trotsky than Christ.

there is more to this but it would be a very long read. the Plan for man and women is found in the word of God

A biblical critique of socialism extends the lessons learned in the Garden of Eden. Satan asks, “Hath God said?” (Gen 3:1). Eve pondered Satan’s question, pondered the merits of his point of view versus God’s command. In doing so, she had already lost the debate. She placed herself in judgment over God’s word, and thus over God. By just questioning God’s word on the matter, the Devil planted the seeds of the humanistic ruin of mankind. By joining him in this regard, Eve secured that ruin.

The only avenue to repairing this ruin is through obedience to Jesus Christ. This path requires us to return to God’s word, and rebuild our lives, our families, churches, states and social order based upon God’s revealed way of life. The choice between God and socialism is the same as the choice between God and Satan. One leads to paradise, the other to delusion and hell. It is God versus Socialism, be sure of that.

It is interesting to note that two of the most evil men in the past century which are considered as of the extreme right of the political spectrum, were in fact socialists:

Adolf Hitler: was a member of the German Workers' Party but the name was later changed by Hitler to include the term National Socialist. Thus the full name was the National Socialist German Workers' Party (Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei or NSDAP) called for short, Nazi. Its notorious flag symbol, the swastika was deliberately turned 45 degrees to the horizontal and always oriented in the S-direction (the overlapping S standing for Socialism). The NSDAP called themselves ‘Socialist’ and not ‘Nazi’, and that infamously brutal force, the SS, using the same initials for socialism.”

Benito Mussolini: was a socialist. He was the leader of the Socialist Party of Italy. Like many modern politicians Mussolini was a socialist and a journalist. During WWI, Mussolini was a well-known socialist leader and writer. Mussolini profusely borrowed much of his symbolism from American Socialists. He founded the “Fasci di Combattimento” (Revolutionary Fascists) party, eventually becoming the National Fascist Party, ergo the term “Fascism”. Interesting to note that Mussolini considered himself all his life as a Socialist.
I do not see the founder of Socialism and it's close offsprings producing something that was liberating for man or women but only benefiting the strong and those who had control over others.

This was not the plan from the beginning God is to be our all in all not man , gov, king, or economy/economic systems.
we are to seek First the Kingdom of God and His Righteousness . It is not Christ like to give to another IF the GOV makes it mandatory. that is done by the law of the land not the heart
 
S

sealabeag

Guest
#50
Great question and very apt, what with the presidential elections in the US and the increase in socialist policies in many modern governments.

The answer is very simple, as far as I can see. What we see in Acts is that the believers lived together and shared freely. It was their choice to give to help those who had less. In that way all had enough. It really is a beautiful model.
However Socialism is not a free act of charity, it is a state-enforced distribution of wealth which stifles entrepreneurship, ownership of property. etc. and encourages dependency and averageness. It is a detriment to freedom, quite the opposite of the Biblical model.

If a community of believers today copied the example of the believers in Acts, it wouldn't be either Socialism or Communism, it would a Christian community based on Christ's example, love and charity, which neither Socialism or Communism are based on.
 

Desdichado

Senior Member
Feb 9, 2014
8,768
838
113
#51
Great question and very apt, what with the presidential elections in the US and the increase in socialist policies in many modern governments.

The answer is very simple, as far as I can see. What we see in Acts is that the believers lived together and shared freely. It was their choice to give to help those who had less. In that way all had enough. It really is a beautiful model.
However Socialism is not a free act of charity, it is a state-enforced distribution of wealth which stifles entrepreneurship, ownership of property. etc. and encourages dependency and averageness. It is a detriment to freedom, quite the opposite of the Biblical model.

If a community of believers today copied the example of the believers in Acts, it wouldn't be either Socialism or Communism, it would a Christian community based on Christ's example, love and charity, which neither Socialism or Communism are based on.
Agreed, it would almost medieval/communitarian in nature.
 
C

coby2

Guest
#52
Social welfare programs are good, only if they are managed and monitored well. Nearly all social programs in the US are NOT managed well, and are probably not monitored at all. This is why many US citizens HATE paying taxes, because the stewardship of that money is not good.

I know of several people personally that receive some gov't assistance, and they truly need it. But, they sometimes don't get ENOUGH assistance, because of the corruption and mis-management of those systems. In a perfect world, our 30-39% tax money would be used to truly help those in need..... not the institutionally lazy welfare slugs that know no other way of life.

I basically "ran" our church's welfare ministry for about 7 years, but finally had to take a break from it, because I found myself becoming jaded to the folks "needing" help. We had an annual budget of around $60-70,000, and would usually be out of funds by October at the latest.
I was hearing the same stories over and over, and kept seeing single mothers with 3-5 kids that couldn't work because of some "disability". Most of them were healthier than me, for goodness sake. I think their disability was the lack of willingness to work.
Many of the people truly were in need of help... some of the situations I saw were simply overwhelming. Being able to help them was a blessing, but the day in day out working with just hopeless situations got to be too stressful, so I had to take a sabbatical.

So... the real need is there, but so is the opportunity for fraud on a grand scale, when there is no responsible management.
That annoys me too. Single moms that don't work get the same as me. But Koos Unemployed is the embodiment of the lazy welfare slug. I met one just like that. He had a job 20 years ago, but they were not nice to him, so he was traumatized he said.
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
12,822
4,221
113
#53
That annoys me too. Single moms that don't work get the same as me. But Koos Unemployed is the embodiment of the lazy welfare slug. I met one just like that. He had a job 20 years ago, but they were not nice to him, so he was traumatized he said.
The issue I would hope is we don't get judgmental but stay biblical as why it is not good social -ism = is a very subtle way of controlling those who are not able to or not wanting to do what is needed for themselves. it is a slip knot around the neck of people that gets tighter with time.
 

cavil51

Senior Member
Mar 30, 2012
147
3
18
#54
Jesus4ever,

America’s first settlers, the Puritans, exemplified the desire to create separate societies to live out a belief system. The Puritans first colonized New England in the seventeenth century. They voluntarily left England in order to find a place to practice their religious beliefs in a community that would be the example of God’s kingdom on earth. According to John Winthrop, one of the most important Puritan leaders, the New England settlements would be a “city on a hill,” a reference to a Biblical passage noting the glory of God’s kingdom. The Puritans were to live, as their name suggests, purely. Though they were not socialist in a political sense, since the idea of socialism had not yet developed and since Puritans were not discouraged from keeping the results of their labor, many of the beliefs of the community, including shared resources, exemplified some of the ideals of later socialist movements. The town church and its clergy functioned as leaders and government, and each person was expected to become members of the Church.
The Puritan experiment in America collapsed on it's first attempt.
But, take heart Jesus4ever, when the Puritans came to the realization that this communalistic model would not work, they returned to a system like we have today (or should better say ~had~) which flourished and America became the greatest nation in the world.

Be Well

Cavil
 
C

coby2

Guest
#55
The issue I would hope is we don't get judgmental but stay biblical as why it is not good social -ism = is a very subtle way of controlling those who are not able to or not wanting to do what is needed for themselves. it is a slip knot around the neck of people that gets tighter with time.
Yes they control you when you're dependant of them.
I read that in the States shacking up is financially better for 2 on disability than marrying.
You should never become dependant on the State.

Only the widows without family were taken care of by the church. The others, their family had to do that.
 
C

Chuckt

Guest
#59
I´ve been thinking about this subject very much. From what I´ve seen, there are different opinions about it. Some state the Socialism is biblical, other that only Capitalism is shown in the Bible. Others, say that Acts 2:44-46 supports Communism. Personally I tend to agree that Socialism is wrong and not biblical, and least of all Communism.


What´s your opinion? Do you think Socialism/Communism is biblical and/or pleases God?


God bless you!
Socialism and Communism is where the State replaces God.
Socialism and Communism doesn't change the heart.
Atheists are found in Socialism and Communism.
Wages are taken from society instead of them having to do something for others willingly.
Socialism and Communism defeats the concept of personal ownership.
Both systems are stealing from people.
Both systems do not create an incentive to work and the reason why East Germany and a host of Communist countries have a bad economy is because there is no incentive to work. East Germany and Russia basically went bankrupt. I worked with one Russian who came over here and he said that Alcoholism was rampant in Russia and he gave us statistics and he also personally had a problem with wanting to work because he didn't share the same work ethic and he was lazy more than some Americans I know.