Is repentance necessary for forgiveness?

[Sipsey]

No, is that mean no matter what murderer go to lake of fire without consider another verse?

That was my point, if you are going to examine repentance then you need some context or at least add it to a stand alone verse. Everyone who is saved by God’s grace will repent for salvation. They go from denying God, to changing their mind in repentance and believe He is who He says He is, and will do what He promises.

David is a prime example of repentance. As was earlier stated he did most of what Rev. 21:8 warns about, but he repented and said, “Only against you Lord, have I sinned.” Understanding that all sin is an affront to god, we are left with two choices, confess and repent, or not.

Do you distinguish between repentance for salvation vs repentance for sins after salvation?

 

[ForestGreenCook]

" Those that he died for will not taste of the second death"
Universalism?
1 John 2:2

“And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.”

The word "world" in 1 John 2:2 is referencing the world of believers only, not the whole world of mankind. Many other scriptures referring to the world of believers are; John 1:29, 3:16, 3:17, 6:33, 12:47, 1 Cor 4:9, 2 Cor 5:19, and others.

 

[Jackson123]

Only those that are born again of the Holy Spirit will repent of breaking a spiritual law. The natural man as described in 1 Cor 2:14 will not, and even cannot, repent of breaking a spiritual law that he cannot discern, and does not have a zeal of any god.

So you believe repent is needed, but only born again capable to repent, am I correct?

 

[throughfaith]

The word "world" in 1 John 2:2 is referencing the world of believers only, not the whole world of mankind. Many other scriptures referring to the world of believers are; John 1:29, 3:16, 3:17, 6:33, 12:47, 1 Cor 4:9, 2 Cor 5:19, and others.

What should it say if it means he really did die for the whole world ? Please tell me how the bible should have said it ?

 

[Jackson123]

That was my point, if you are going to examine repentance then you need some context or at least add it to a stand alone verse. Everyone who is saved by God’s grace will repent for salvation. They go from denying God, to changing their mind in repentance and believe He is who He says He is, and will do what He promises.

David is a prime example of repentance. As was earlier stated he did most of what Rev. 21:8 warns about, but he repented and said, “Only against you Lord, have I sinned.” Understanding that all sin is an affront to god, we are left with two choices, confess and repent, or not.

Do you distinguish between repentance for salvation vs repentance for sins after salvation?

Yep, repent after or before salvation are need for salvation, because rev 21 :8 say murderer go to lake of fire, it doesn't say unless that murderer once accept the Lord.
So no matter what, murderer must repent if he want to save

 

[ForestGreenCook]

What should it say if it means he really did die for the whole world ? Please tell me how the bible should have said it ?

The bible points it out if you consider every scripture in the bible. Why would God love a world that he tells us not to love? - 1 John 2:15

 

[throughfaith]

The bible points it out if you consider every scripture in the bible. Why would God love a world that he tells us not to love? - 1 John 2:15

I was referring to the atonement.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

I was referring to the atonement.

Jesus died for only those that his Father gave to him and Jesus said that he would lose none of them, but would raise them up at the last day. The atonement is limited to only those that his Father gave to him. John 6:39, Heb 2:13, John 17:2

 

[throughfaith]

Jesus died for only those that his Father gave to him and Jesus said that he would lose none of them, but would raise them up at the last day. The atonement is limited to only those that his Father gave to him. John 6:39, Heb 2:13, John 17:2

This is how it works . I say something like " Jesus died for our sins , not Just our sins but for the whole world . Then I quote a verse that SAYS the very thing I'm claiming. What you just did was say something you believe ( Calvinism) and them quote a verse that doesn't SAY what you said . Just re read what you said above .
Heres my verse that SAYS what I said .
1 John 2:2

“And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.”

 

[know1]

Already answered . John 1 is referring to fellowship not staying saved .

So now you admit we are not automatically forgiven?
It doesn't matter what the forgiveness is for, the fact is you just admitted, it is for the purpose of restoring one's fellowship with God. Even though you didn't say all of that.

 

[know1]

Could you read this verse and tell me what you think it means ?

Eph 1 .13
13¶In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

14Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

It is saying, we are sealed/marked by the word of God we receive in our heart, and that word, which is a seed/offspring of and from the holy Spirit. And that said word or seed of the spirit of God is a down payment or pledge until the day of our redemption from The works of the flesh.
The promise and seal is good, so long as you keep the word of God in your heart, until you die or are taken up in a rapture. The word of God is both the flesh and blood of Jesus, and to reject the gospel, or the word of God and its promises, is to reject that which you were sealed or marked with, that being, the seed or offspring of the holy Spirit.
This only applies to mature Christians, like the former ordained Baptist minister I spoke with who turned atheist after he allegedly died three times. One of which was for an hour and a half, and all he saw was darkness, and because of that, he rejected the word of God and Christ, along with his wife, who also was an ordained Baptist minister. They were sealed with the promised spirit, but because they rejected both the gospel and Christ, which one must have in order to have the flesh and blood of Jesus, which is life, lost their salvation. For the promise is indeed forever to those who keep the word to the end.

 

[Sipsey]

It is saying, we are sealed/marked by the word of God we receive in our heart, and that word, which is a seed/offspring of and from the holy Spirit. And that said word or seed of the spirit of God is a down payment or pledge until the day of our redemption from The works of the flesh.
The promise and seal is good, so long as you keep the word of God in your heart, until you die or are taken up in a rapture. The word of God is both the flesh and blood of Jesus, and to reject the gospel, or the word of God and its promises, is to reject that which you were sealed or marked with, that being, the seed or offspring of the holy Spirit.
This only applies to mature Christians, like the former ordained Baptist minister I spoke with who turned atheist after he allegedly died three times. One of which was for an hour and a half, and all he saw was darkness, and because of that, he rejected the word of God and Christ, along with his wife, who also was an ordained Baptist minister. They were sealed with the promised spirit, but because they rejected both the gospel and Christ, which one must have in order to have the flesh and blood of Jesus, which is life, lost their salvation. For the promise is indeed forever to those who keep the word to the end.

Do you even know what a seal represents?

 

[peldom10]

" Those that he died for will not taste of the second death"
Universalism?
1 John 2:2

“And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.”

That is not universalism.
The belief that God will save everyone is...universalism .....and that will not happen per scripture.

 

[throughfaith]

It is saying, we are sealed/marked by the word of God we receive in our heart, and that word, which is a seed/offspring of and from the holy Spirit. And that said word or seed of the spirit of God is a down payment or pledge until the day of our redemption from The works of the flesh.
The promise and seal is good, so long as you keep the word of God in your heart, until you die or are taken up in a rapture. The word of God is both the flesh and blood of Jesus, and to reject the gospel, or the word of God and its promises, is to reject that which you were sealed or marked with, that being, the seed or offspring of the holy Spirit.
This only applies to mature Christians, like the former ordained Baptist minister I spoke with who turned atheist after he allegedly died three times. One of which was for an hour and a half, and all he saw was darkness, and because of that, he rejected the word of God and Christ, along with his wife, who also was an ordained Baptist minister. They were sealed with the promised spirit, but because they rejected both the gospel and Christ, which one must have in order to have the flesh and blood of Jesus, which is life, lost their salvation. For the promise is indeed forever to those who keep the word to the end.

That's not what the bible says .

 

[throughfaith]

That is not universalism.
The belief that God will save everyone is...universalism .....and that will not happen per scripture.

If someone ( calvinist) is saying that all those who Jesus died and tasted death for for WILL NOT end up in the lake of fire , then everyone will be saved . Because Jesus tasted death for EVERY MAN and died for the whole world .

 

[throughfaith]

So now you admit we are not automatically forgiven?
It doesn't matter what the forgiveness is for, the fact is you just admitted, it is for the purpose of restoring one's fellowship with God. Even though you didn't say all of that.

Not to be regenerated/ recieve Jesus/ recieve The Holy Spirit.

 

[know1]

That's not what the bible says .

Said the biblical scholar confidently, as though it was enough to settle the issue. Not feeling the need to justify such a broad statement with scripture.

Even the corrupt and deceivers will use at least a little truth in their deception while twisting, adding to, or omitting scripture. You however, never felt the need to use scripture to back up anything you refuted. I am not corrupt, nor did I twist or pervert my understanding of the scripture you asked me to interpret, nor was I trying to make it say what I wanted it to say. So even though you essentially were saying, all of what I wrote was wrong or biblically inaccurate, I have to ask, what part of what I said is, at the very least, inaccurate?
Is it the part where I did not say, once sealed always sealed or once saved always saved?

And I failed to see the correlation between being automatically forgiven and OSAS.

 

[know1]

Not to be regenerated/ recieve Jesus/ recieve The Holy Spirit.

Agreed, and I never said it was.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

This is how it works . I say something like " Jesus died for our sins , not Just our sins but for the whole world . Then I quote a verse that SAYS the very thing I'm claiming. What you just did was say something you believe ( Calvinism) and them quote a verse that doesn't SAY what you said . Just re read what you said above .
Heres my verse that SAYS what I said .
1 John 2:2

“And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.”

It all depends whether you apply the correct meaning to the phrase, according to the Greek interpretation of certain words. For instance, there is a world of sports, a world fish, a world of Jews, a world of Gentiles, and a world of believers.

Why would God tell us to love not the world, that he says he "so loves"?

The only way that you can rightly divide the scriptures is to know what the Greek meaning of certain words are.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Said the biblical scholar confidently, as though it was enough to settle the issue. Not feeling the need to justify such a broad statement with scripture.

Even the corrupt and deceivers will use at least a little truth in their deception while twisting, adding to, or omitting scripture. You however, never felt the need to use scripture to back up anything you refuted. I am not corrupt, nor did I twist or pervert my understanding of the scripture you asked me to interpret, nor was I trying to make it say what I wanted it to say. So even though you essentially were saying, all of what I wrote was wrong or biblically inaccurate, I have to ask, what part of what I said is, at the very least, inaccurate?
Is it the part where I did not say, once sealed always sealed or once saved always saved?

And I failed to see the correlation between being automatically forgiven and OSAS.

Know 1, I have the same problem with his reply.