Is modern praise and worship simply a form of conjuring?

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Mar 4, 2020
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#41
I totally agree. God came down of His own doing.

But show me an example of the New Testament church "calling down" the Spirit for 45 minutes to an hour. Perhaps you've researched this.
It doesn't matter if it's from the New Testament or Old Testament. The fact still remains that God can and does come down and there is an example of someone asking Him to come down: Isaiah 63:15 - 64:12

Isaiah 64:1
1Oh that thou wouldest rend the heavens, that thou wouldest come down, that the mountains might flow down at thy presence,

The New Testament says that we are allowed to ask God for absolutely anything:

John 14:13-14
13And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.

1 John 5:14-15
14And this is the confidence that we have in him, that, if we ask any thing according to his will, he heareth us: 15And if we know that he hear us, whatsoever we ask, we know that we have the petitions that we desired of him.

There is no command forbidding asking God to come down.
 
Aug 20, 2021
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#42
It doesn't matter if it's from the New Testament or Old Testament. The fact still remains that God can and does come down and there is an example of someone asking Him to come down: Isaiah 63:15 - 64:12

Isaiah 64:1
1Oh that thou wouldest rend the heavens, that thou wouldest come down, that the mountains might flow down at thy presence,

The New Testament says that we are allowed to ask God for absolutely anything:

John 14:13-14
13And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.

1 John 5:14-15
14And this is the confidence that we have in him, that, if we ask any thing according to his will, he heareth us: 15And if we know that he hear us, whatsoever we ask, we know that we have the petitions that we desired of him.

There is no command forbidding asking God to come down.
[James] u ask and do not get cause u would consume it of your lust.
 

ResidentAlien

Well-known member
Apr 21, 2021
8,232
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#43
It doesn't matter if it's from the New Testament or Old Testament. The fact still remains that God can and does come down and there is an example of someone asking Him to come down: Isaiah 63:15 - 64:12

Isaiah 64:1
1Oh that thou wouldest rend the heavens, that thou wouldest come down, that the mountains might flow down at thy presence,

The New Testament says that we are allowed to ask God for absolutely anything:

John 14:13-14
13And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.

1 John 5:14-15
14And this is the confidence that we have in him, that, if we ask any thing according to his will, he heareth us: 15And if we know that he hear us, whatsoever we ask, we know that we have the petitions that we desired of him.

There is no command forbidding asking God to come down.
LOL. . .is that supposed to be an answer to the question I asked?
 
Aug 20, 2021
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#44
k look thats what 99.9 % of us don't understand. God is within heavens is within.hell is within,Close and far to.
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
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#45
At many charismatic churches, praise and worship can last from 30 to 45 minutes or even longer. The supposed purpose of this is to "call down" the Holy Spirit. But does the Holy Spirit really need to be called down, or is this just a way to get people into an emotional state of pleasure and receptivity? Does this sort of thing honor God or are we honoring the creature more than the Creator?

One song that comes to mind is Kari Jobe's "Holy Spirit." The reason I remember it is because the lyrics are clearly an invitation to the Spirit to fall, or come down. Here's the live video.


Virtually every charismatic church and especially megachurches use music to get the audience "in the mood." Maybe we should consider who or what is actually being conjured by this.
come on you meant those who call out to the Lord or the Holy Spirit are Conjuring what the devil? Those who come to worship the Lord and seek HIM find the devil? that is blasphemous to say. I have sung this song and in church, we saw people saved and healed not because of the song but because those who come to Worship Jesus and are doing so GOd confirms HIS word. Now we are attacking worship music LOl. Bunch of pharieeses.
 

ResidentAlien

Well-known member
Apr 21, 2021
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#46
Even in Corinth where the spiritual gifts were on full display there isn't any hint that long praise and worship session were part of it.
 
S

SophieT

Guest
#47
I hear ya, brother. Yes, there is a problem. But it's not something that can be fixed due to the spiritual timeline we're in.
Let me explain. We are in the last hours of the last days. The Bible tells us that in the last days there's going to be a great falling away(spiritual apostasy) of the church, and because of this many christians have changed the way they believe, worship, etc.

Because of this, some Pentecostal & most charismatics sing what's called "ME" songs that praises the congregation more than The Lord Himself.

Hillsong, Bethel, Steve Furtick, and some others teach a lot of false doctrine, so it shouldn't come as a surprise that they worship incorrectly since Jesus teaches that we will know them by their fruits.

Matthew 7:15“Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves. 16You will recognize them by their fruits. Are grapes gathered from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? 17So, every healthy tree bears good fruit, but the diseased tree bears bad fruit. 18A healthy tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a diseased tree bear good fruit. 19Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20Thus you will recognize them by their fruits.

Bad trees can only produce bad fruit. Yet MANY christians listen & sing bad songs from bad trees because they don't check out the church's doctrine!
Yes, they are conjuring spirits down, but not the Holy Spirit! Yes, they produce a feeling & bring forth fruit, but nothing holy! They mostly will sing "me" songs that do nothing but lift themselves up as a great people but rarely will lift up the Lord. They will sing about all the things that God does for them. This brings forth a feeling of euphoria that will make them feel justified & holy when all that feeling is is a feeling that goes away when it's over. This is why it goes on for a long time.
We have said nothing yet about the light shows, provocative dance, & sometimes sexy styles of singing by the women leaders.

When true praise & worship take place, God needs no such things to show forth His glory!

When it has to be pumped up with theactrical dances , light shows, special music, & spasmodic movements it's because it is fake.

God's people are led by the Holy Spirit, & when He moves among us, we need nothing else, for the Lord is our All in All. He does the rest, not us.

When the Holy Spirit is prayed to & worshipped more than the Lord whose name is above every name, that is one of the signs that falling away has begun in that church.

another expert

straight off the nearest heresy hunter site

I've made it plain there is error and too much of it...BUT how about the pew warmers who check their watches every 15 minutes?

I've been in services where you were disappointed when 3 hours did not seem long enough

what do you know about 'God's people'? really...just what do you think you know smh
 
S

SophieT

Guest
#48
Even in Corinth where the spiritual gifts were on full display there isn't any hint that long praise and worship session were part of it.
hey ~ no worries

God will not force you to recognize His Spirit or worship Him

I can spend 2 hrs easily at home with the Lord....worshipping Him and being in awe of Him...you cannot regulate that or how others spend their time with God

like I said, it seems most of your ops are ANTI Holy Spirit or anything to do with those who enjoy the presence of God and LIKE to sing and worship God

you are free to have something better to do

dismissal of ALL that you do not partake in, is becoming quite noticeable. You think God can't tell the difference between what is real or not real?

and you have no idea whatsoever of how the early church operated. I think you need to catch up with that because it states they basically were in a worshipful attitude throughout the day
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
13,885
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#49
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It doesn't matter if it's from the New Testament or Old Testament. The fact still remains that God can and does come down and there is an example of someone asking Him to come down: Isaiah 63:15 - 64:12

Isaiah 64:1
1Oh that thou wouldest rend the heavens, that thou wouldest come down, that the mountains might flow down at thy presence,

The New Testament says that we are allowed to ask God for absolutely anything:

John 14:13-14
13And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.

1 John 5:14-15
14And this is the confidence that we have in him, that, if we ask any thing according to his will, he heareth us: 15And if we know that he hear us, whatsoever we ask, we know that we have the petitions that we desired of him.

There is no command forbidding asking God to come down.
amen . So many subjects such as this is a matter of faith . If people are convinced they are becoming some devil by worshipping along song and praise music , it’s probably a terrible idea for that person to be involved in it because they would by faith be violating thier own conscience

but we tend to want to force our faith on others regarding things like this . And it just clashes and causes doubt and stumbling blocks .

I know a wonderful woman who listens to praise music all day probably any song she can hear that exalts the Lords name. And it turns out she is one of the most inspiring people that is constantly speaking of the lord always encouraging biblical principles , always looking to uplift others ect

she’s unable to walk , drive , and do many things others are able to do yet she gives of her own means to others in need almost in a constant state whether it’s money , thkngs needed , but more impressively a joy that has nothing to do with her circumstance but the music helps her to constantly be reminded of Christ and his glory and love towards others

I say the more music , movies , stories , books that are spreading Christ in many ways is needed in tbe word because for every song praising Gods work and words on earth there are a thousand secular songs that slander and ignore his word and glory

inviting him to come , seems to be in line with requesting his kingdom to come and will to be done
 
Mar 4, 2020
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#50
LOL. . .is that supposed to be an answer to the question I asked?
It's the answer you need to hear to stop accusing God of being someone that's conjured up or that asking the Holy Spirit to come down is evil. I'm trying to help you. I didn't have to go the extra mile and debunk your OP, but if you're wise you'll realize you made a huge mistake.
 

Edify

Well-known member
Jan 27, 2021
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#51
another expert

straight off the nearest heresy hunter site

I've made it plain there is error and too much of it...BUT how about the pew warmers who check their watches every 15 minutes?

I've been in services where you were disappointed when 3 hours did not seem long enough

what do you know about 'God's people'? really...just what do you think you know smh
2 Timothy 2:15 Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a worker who has no need to be ashamed, rightly handling the word of truth.
 
S

SophieT

Guest
#52
2 Timothy 2:15 Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a worker who has no need to be ashamed, rightly handling the word of truth.
or let heresy hunters do the job for you

copy/pasting scripture sounds good and all, but anyone can do that

yah hear your brother, but have you heard from God lately?
 

ResidentAlien

Well-known member
Apr 21, 2021
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#53
It's the answer you need to hear to stop accusing God of being someone that's conjured up or that asking the Holy Spirit to come down is evil. I'm trying to help you. I didn't have to go the extra mile and debunk your OP, but if you're wise you'll realize you made a huge mistake.
You're just making it up as you go along and mischaracterizing what I've said. I can't hold a conversation with you if dishonesty is your go-to response. If you decide to get real maybe we'll have something to talk about.
 
Aug 20, 2021
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#54
what the hay?..I'm like,the sky is blue today:):)..And people r like how dare u say that!:mad:and their like the scriptures say its not blue today!:mad:
 

Lucy-Pevensie

Senior Member
Dec 20, 2017
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#55
I am so dissappointed that you jumped so quickly to say such a thing.

I never said the Holy Spirit wasn't God. He's the third person of the Trinity.

What I sad was:


There is NO SCRIPTURE that says we are to pray to the Holy Spirit. Jesus said we are to pray to the FATHER & ask all things in His name.
The modern church prays TO Jesus & the Holy Spirit. Neither are scriptural.
What you said was what you said. And it still reads as though you are offended by The Holy Spirit.
A regulated prayer method doesn't make us any holier.
Jesus didn't tell us to pray strictly one way at all times. Praise & worship is not a prayer of petition or intercession.


I've never heard anyone say they were praying TO The Holy Spirit.
It makes no difference anyway. Prayer is communication with God.
The Holy Spirit doesn't glorify himself but he does reveal himself, God The Father and God The Son to us.


You seem to have trouble understanding relationship.
 

SomeDisciple

Well-known member
Jul 4, 2021
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#56
I think it's possible. I don't know much about pagan religion or worship, but I've heard people into witchcraft talking about going to church and recognize what is happening there as a kind of magic.

I suppose you can take any form of religion- quote the bible a bit, and *poof* you have painted your tomb white.
 

p_rehbein

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2013
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#58
I have to laugh when people wanna complain about "modern worship stuff." I guess they never read the Book of Psalms.

Waaayyyyyyyy back then, people PARTIED when they praised and worshiped God! Dance, dance, dance, put your hands in the air and wave them just like you don't care...........sing, sing......sing.......PLAY ALL the instruments you have!!!!!!

Basically, Psalm 150 pretty much nutshells praising God in Biblical times.
 

Lucy-Pevensie

Senior Member
Dec 20, 2017
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#59
Luke 19 (CSB)

37 Now he came near the path down the Mount of Olives, and the whole crowd of the disciples began to praise God joyfully with a loud voice for all the miracles they had seen:

38 Blessed is the King who comes
in the name of the Lord.
Peace in heaven
and glory in the highest heaven!

39 Some of the Pharisees from the crowd told him, “Teacher, rebuke your disciples.”


40 He answered, “I tell you, if they were to keep silent, the stones would cry out.”
 

ResidentAlien

Well-known member
Apr 21, 2021
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#60
I have to laugh when people wanna complain about "modern worship stuff." I guess they never read the Book of Psalms.

Waaayyyyyyyy back then, people PARTIED when they praised and worshiped God! Dance, dance, dance, put your hands in the air and wave them just like you don't care...........sing, sing......sing.......PLAY ALL the instruments you have!!!!!!

Basically, Psalm 150 pretty much nutshells praising God in Biblical times.
What is your definition of "modern worship stuff?" After reading my original post, what is it—as you understand it—am I "complaining" about?