Is Michael God?

[Katia]

What are some of the laws you obey?

The laws in the OT seem insurmountable don't they? The so called 10 commandments seem simple enough, but to me it seems that I have violated them all and had to repent, sometimes again and again.

I think that the Jews try to observe 613 Commandments. For me, that is a mystery. Perhaps they are meant to teach us humility? I try to avoid Pork, but love Shrimp. That is just a personal thing with me and I don't put my rules on others. I'm reading the entire Bible once again because there is so much I forget. And the words of Jesus underline so much for me.

In the NT where the "kill and eat" passage is a trudge for me and medically some things are not actually good to eat. If one is Diabetic, there are so many other things one should not eat. At times I'm tempted to just throw my hands up. In the end, the best I can do is ask God for guidance.

 

[HisKid]

The laws in the OT seem insurmountable don't they? The so called 10 commandments seem simple enough, but to me it seems that I have violated them all and had to repent, sometimes again and again.

I think that the Jews try to observe 613 Commandments. For me, that is a mystery. Perhaps they are meant to teach us humility? I try to avoid Pork, but love Shrimp. That is just a personal thing with me and I don't put my rules on others. I'm reading the entire Bible once again because there is so much I forget. And the words of Jesus underline so much for me.

In the NT where the "kill and eat" passage is a trudge for me and medically some things are not actually good to eat. If one is Diabetic, there are so many other things one should not eat. At times I'm tempted to just throw my hands up. In the end, the best I can do is ask God for guidance.

I think the best you can do is accept that the NT is the account of the new covenant. Jesus died for the sin of the world. If have not accepted His sacrifice for you, it really doesn't matter what you do because you are already lost.

 

[Katia]

First of all you may be angry with me but I am not angry with you. Secondly, I am not judging you but rather responding to your own words. Your the one that brought the killing issue and had sympathy with Islam. Your the one that brought up Mormonism and (yes I know you don't follow them) and merely pointed out their history of killing.

Also, from reading your first post you quoted Micah 6:8 which is talking about morally leading a good life etc. Leading a good life and doing good to your fellow man does not get you into heaven. Putting your faith and trust in Jesus Christ and Him only is what saves you. At Matthew 16:13 Jesus ask His disciples, "Who do people say that the Son of Man is?" That's the question? If you have the wrong Jesus your lost. So according to you, who is He? And one more thing, we all are sinners, and bad ones at that., but it seems to me you don't really consider yourself "forgiven." Please read 1 John 5:11-12

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto

You think I said things about the Mormons that I didn't. I merely said that the members I have encountered have been very nice. I said nothing about their killing. Though, I do know about the Mountain Meadows Massacre. That is old business and they have done lots of soul searching over it. Perhaps you could read what I post more carefully?

 

[tourist]

I love God and Jesus the Christ. I have failed often and sometimes in spectacular ways. I know what it is to seek forgiveness from others and not get it. I have accusers in my life and hopefully that keeps me humble.

Learning to be humble is a humbling process.

 

[HisKid]

Learning to be humble is a humbling process.

No doubt about it. I don't recall ever asking God to humble me but He made it clear I needed it and was quite effective in the manner He did it. That was not fun but I'm grateful He doesn't let His children remain in the crappy manner He found us.

 

[Katia]

I think the best you can do is accept that the NT is the account of the new covenant. Jesus died for the sin of the world. If have not accepted His sacrifice for you, it really doesn't matter what you do because you are already lost.

For me, Christianity gets lost in buzz words, and clichés and to me loses its meaning. I don't think that Jesus intended to start another belief system, but to instruct the Jews. Much of it plays out in the Book of Acts. I think that Paul was a bit obsessive, over cooking things at times. In 1 Cor 11 he talks about Gen. 3:16 and I have experienced some men using that to enslave women. I don't have an issue yielding to a man but hold the abuse please.

I think that women are to cover their heads as the Jews and Muslims do but do not fully understand it. It is the desire of God.

 

[Katia]

I think the best you can do is accept that the NT is the account of the new covenant. Jesus died for the sin of the world. If have not accepted His sacrifice for you, it really doesn't matter what you do because you are already lost.

You can't know my heart, God does.

 

[HisKid]

For me, Christianity gets lost in buzz words, and clichés and to me loses its meaning. I don't think that Jesus intended to start another belief system, but to instruct the Jews. Much of it plays out in the Book of Acts. I think that Paul was a bit obsessive, over cooking things at times. In 1 Cor 11 he talks about Gen. 3:16 and I have experienced some men using that to enslave women. I don't have an issue yielding to a man but hold the abuse please.

I think that women are to cover their heads as the Jews and Muslims do but do not fully understand it. It is the desire of God.

Jesus is God-incarnate. You have rejected Him. You can't love Jesus and reject Him at the same time. After interacting with you, I still have no idea what you are searching for, but it doesn't appear to be truth.

 

[Katia]

Jesus is God-incarnate. You have rejected Him. You can't love Jesus and reject Him at the same time. After interacting with you, I still have no idea what you are searching for, but it doesn't appear to be truth.

You judge me, why? That is for God alone. I came out of a really judgmental church. We are not to judge one another. The experiences of the years have often driven me to my knees. I reject your idea that Jesus is God incarnate, but lots of folk mouth the idea. I take Matt 3:17 literally, and I am a non-trinitarian. That is just my opinion. How can you expect me to accept your beliefs yet feel free to condemn mine? Perhaps you could be more charitable? You can be sure that God will correct me where necessary.

 

[HisKid]

You judge me, why? That is for God alone. I came out of a really judgmental church. We are not to judge one another. The experiences of the years have often driven me to my knees. I reject your idea that Jesus is God incarnate, but lots of folk mouth the idea. I take Matt 3:17 literally, and I am a non-trinitarian. That is just my opinion. How can you expect me to accept your beliefs yet feel free to condemn mine? Perhaps you could be more charitable? You can be sure that God will correct me where necessary.

It is not my idea that Jesus is God incarnate. It is fact. And since you are not a Christian, having rejected Christ, why are you posting on a Christian forum? I guess I assume it is because people are searching for the truth, but that must not be the case.

I'm not judging you. God has made His Son known. Jesus is the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and end. All things were made by Him and through Him. This is truth. You don't seem to have any need for it, so I'm curious what you want.

 

[Katia]

It is not my idea that Jesus is God incarnate. It is fact. And since you are not a Christian, having rejected Christ, why are you posting on a Christian forum? I guess I assume it is because people are searching for the truth, but that must not be the case.

I'm not judging you. God has made His Son known. Jesus is the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and end. All things were made by Him and through Him. This is truth. You don't seem to have any need for it, so I'm curious what you want.

I define Jesus as the Son of God but you do not like my not using your buzz words. At least I am reading the Bible through again and on my knees praying several times a day. The Church abandoned me but God and Jesus did not. I had a serious illness that they saw as my being deep in sin. Many from my old Church apologized to me. Some never will. You are far too taken by your own wisdom.

 

[HisKid]

I define Jesus as the Son of God but you do not like my not using your buzz words. At least I am reading the Bible through again and on my knees praying several times a day. The Church abandoned me but God and Jesus did not. I had a serious illness that they saw as my being deep in sin. Many from my old Church apologized to me. Some never will. You are far too taken by your own wisdom.

The people who told you that you were sick because of your sin are not the church.

I had a similar experience at a "church" I attended. I had several miscarriages and ultimately had to have my tubes removed, never to have given a live birth. Some people at that church said the very same thing.. it was my sin. lol.. I was a married woman and was not "in sin". It hurt, but I quickly realized those people were not of God.

 

[Katia]

The people who told you that you were sick because of your sin are not the church.

I had a similar experience at a "church" I attended. I had several miscarriages and ultimately had to have my tubes removed, never to have given a live birth. Some people at that church said the very same thing.. it was my sin. lol.. I was a married woman and was not "in sin". It hurt, but I quickly realized those people were not of God.

So lets just love each other in Jesus the Christ? I search but am not lost. I study Archeology and try to find the mind of the old ones. Right now I am hung up in Genesis 5 and have lots of research to do. I love detective work because it keeps my mind occupied. One of my questions is not vital to human existence but still interesting. There are sects of Judaism where women cover their hair. Most Islamic women do also. Why does it seem different in Christianity? For years I did, but no longer do and sometimes I feel guilty. We all search, some more than others. Let's do it in love for one another.

 

[HisKid]

So lets just love each other in Jesus the Christ? I search but am not lost. I study Archeology and try to find the mind of the old ones. Right now I am hung up in Genesis 5 and have lots of research to do. I love detective work because it keeps my mind occupied. One of my questions is not vital to human existence but still interesting. There are sects of Judaism where women cover their hair. Most Islamic women do also. Why does it seem different in Christianity? For years I did, but no longer do and sometimes I feel guilty. We all search, some more than others. Let's do it in love for one another.

We are not under OT law. We who have accepted the new covenant live under grace. There are no rules.

 

[TheLearner]

Michael as God. That is an interesting Idea, but this is the first time I have heard of that. Some people think that Melchizedek is Jesus the Christ though. It is impossible to be dogmatic about much however. In my opinion, we find out that God is the Creator in the first chapter of Genesis. I think that it is likely that Michael is one of the Angels.

The claim for Jesus being Michael the angel first came about by the Christian Connextion cult, movement. They deny the deity of Christ. And, came up with that claim to avoid scriptures related to Jesus being fully God. The CC had some of their pastors among the early Adventists including James White who was Ellen White's husband. Uriah Smith was another CC minister who was in charge of publishing SDA books. Some SDA People influenced Pastor Russell who started the Bible Students Movement which later became the Jehovah's Witnesses when Rutherford renamed the group. Some SDA back then taught Semi-Arianism, but those of the CC were out and out Arians. Now think about this would a true prophet of God marry someone who taught a false Christ?

 

[TheLearner]

VI. Jesus Christ Is God A. Explicit statements 1. Isa. 9:6; note 10:21. Translations which render "mighty hero," are inconsistent in their rendering of 10:21. Also note that Ezek. 32:21 is (a) not in the same context, as is Isa. 10:21, and (b) speaking of false gods, cf. I.G.5. above. 2. John 1:1 Even if Jesus is here called "a god" (as some have argued), since there is only one God, Jesus is that God. However, the "a god" rendering is incorrect. Other passages using the Greek word for God (theos) in the same construction are always rendered "God": Mark 12:27; Luke 20:38; John 8:54; Phil 2:13; Heb. 11:16. Passages in which a shift occurs from ho theos ("the God") to theos ("God") never imply a shift in meaning: Mark 12:27; Luke 20:37- 38; John 3:2; 13:3; Rom. 1:21; 1 Thess. 1:9; heb. 9:14; 1 Pet. 4:10- 11 3. John 1:18. The best manuscripts have "the unique God" (monogenês, frequently rendered "only-begotten," actually means "one of a kind," "unique," though in the NT always in the context of a son or daughter). Even if one translates "only-begotten," the idea is not of a "begotten god" as opposed to an "unbegotten god." 4. John 20:28. Compare Rev. 4:11, where the same construction is used in the plural ("our") instead of the singular ("my"). See also Psa. 35:23. Note that Christ's response indicates that Thomas' acclamation was not wrong. Also note that John 20:17 does show that the Father was Jesus' "God" (due to Jesus becoming a man), but the words "my God" as spoken by Thomas later in the same chapter must mean no less than in v. 17. Thus, what the Father is to Jesus in His humanity, Jesus is to Thomas (and therefore to us as well). 5. Acts 20:28: "the church of God which He purchased with His own blood." The variant readings (e.g. "the church of the Lord") show that the original was understood to mean "His own blood," not "the blood of His own [Son]" (since otherwise no one would have thought to change it). Thus all other renderings are attempts to evade the startling clarity and meaning of this passage. 6. Rom. 9:5. While grammatically this is not the only possible interpretation, the consistent form of doxologies in Scripture, as well as the smoothest reading of the text, supports the identification of Christ as "God" in this verse. 7. Titus 2:13. Grammatically and contextually, this is one of the strongest proof-texts for the deity of Christ. Sharp's first rule, properly understood, proves that the text should be translated "our great God and Savior" (cf. same construction in Luke 20:37; Rev. 1:6; and many other passages). Note also that Paul always uses the word "manifestation" ("appearing") of Christ: 2 Thess. 2:8; 1 Tim. 6:14; 2. Tim. 1:10; 4:1, 8. 8. Heb. 1:8. The rendering, "God is your throne," is nonsense - God is not a throne, He is the one who sits on the throne! Also, "God is your throne," if taken to mean God is the source of one's rule, could be said about any angelic ruler - but Hebrews 1 is arguing that Jesus is superior to the angels. 9. 2 Pet. 1:1. The same construction is used here as in Titus 2:13; see the parallel passages in 2 Pet. 1:11; 2:20; 3:2, 18. 10. 1 John 5:20. Note that the most obvious antecedent for "this" is Jesus Christ. Also note that the "eternal life" is Christ, as can be seen from 1:2. B. Jesus is Jehovah/Yahweh 1. Rom. 10:9-13: Note the repeated "for," which links these verses closely together. The "Lord" of 10:13 must be the "Lord" of 10:9, 12. 2. Phil. 2:9-11. In context, the "name that is above every name" is "Lord" (vs. 11), i.e., Jehovah. 3. Heb. 1:10: Here God the Father addresses the Son as "Lord," in a quotation from Psa. 102:25 (cf. 102:24, where the person addressed is called "God"). Since here the Father addresses the Son as "Lord," this cannot be explained away as a text in which a creature addresses Christ as God/Lord in a merely representational sense. 4. 1 Pet. 2:3-4: This verse is nearly an exact quotation of Psa. 34:8a, where "Lord" is Jehovah. From 1 Pet. 2:4-8 it is also clear that "the Lord" in v. 3 is Jesus. 5. 1 Pet. 3:14-15: these verses are a clear reference to Isa. 8:12-13, where the one who is to be regarded as holy is Jehovah. 6. Texts where Jesus is spoken of as the "one Lord" (cf. Deut. 6:4; Mark 12:29): 1 Cor. 8:6; Eph. 4:5; cf. Rom. 10:12; 1 Cor. 12:5. C. Jesus has the titles of God 1. Titles belonging only to God a. The first and the last: Rev. 1:17; 22:13; cf. Isa. 44:6 b. King of kings and Lord of lords: 1 Tim. 6:15; Rev. 17:14; 19:16 2. Titles belonging in the ultimate sense only to God a. Savior: Luke 2:11; John 4:42; 1 John 4:14; Titus 2:13, cf. v. 10; etc.; cf. Isa. 43.11; 45:21-22; 1 Tim. 4:10; on Jesus becoming the source of salvation; Heb. 5:9, cf. Ex. 15:2; Psa. 118:14, 21 b. Shepherd: John 10:11; Heb. 13:20; cf. Psa. 23:1; Isa. 40:11 c. Rock: 1 Cor. 10:4; cf. Isa. 44:8 D. Jesus received the honors due to God alone 1. Honor: John 5:23 2. Love: Matt. 10:37 3. Prayer: John 14:14 (text debated, but in any case it is Jesus who answers the prayer); Acts 1:24-25; 7:59-60 (cf. Luke 23:34, 46); Rom. 10:12-13; 1 Cor. 1:2; 2 Cor. 12:8-10 (where "the Lord" must be Jesus, cf. v. 9); 2 Thess. 2:16-17; etc. 4. Worship (proskuneô): Matt. 28:17; Heb. 1:6 (cf. Psa. 97:7); cf. Matt 4:10 5. Religious or sacred service (latreuô): Rev. 22:13 6. Doxological praise: 2 Tim. 4:18; 2 Pet. 3:18; Rev. 1:5-6; 5:13 7. Faith: John 3:16; 14:1; etc. E. Jesus does the works of God 1. Creation: John 1:3; 1 Cor. 8:6; Col. 1:16-17; Heb. 1:2; Rev. 3:14 (where archê probably means ruler); on "through" and "in" cf. Rom. 11:36; Heb. 2:10; Acts 17:28; cf. also Isa. 44:24 2. Sustains the universe: Col. 1:17; Heb. 1:3, 11-12 3. Salvation: a. In General: See C.2.a. above b. Forgives sins: Matt. 9:1-8; Mark 2:1-12; Luke 5:17-26; note that Jesus forgives sins not committed against Him. 4. All of them: John 5:17-29 (including judgment, cf. Matt. 25:31- 46; 2 Cor. 5:10) F. Jesus has all the incommunicable attributes of God 1. All of them: John 1:1; Phil. 2:6; Col. 1:15; 2:9; Heb. 1:3 2. Self-existent: John 5:26 3. Unchangeable: Heb. 1:10-12 (in the same sense as YHWH); 13:8 4. Eternal: John 1:1; 8:58; 17:5; Col. 1:17; Heb. 1:2 5. Omnipresent: Matt. 18:20; 28:20; John 3:13; Eph. 1:23; 4:10; Col. 3:11 6. Omniscient: John 16:30; 21:17; cf. 2:23-24 7. Incomprehensible: Matt. 11:25-27 G. Jesus is "equal with God" 1. John 5:18: Although John is relating what the Jews understood Jesus to be claiming, the context shows they were basically right: In v. 17 claimed to be exempt from the Sabbath along with His Father, and in 5:19-29 Jesus claimed to do all of the world of the Father and to deserve the same honor as the Father 2. Phil. 2:6: Jesus did not attempt to seize recognition by the world as being equal with God, but attained that recognition by humbling himself and being exalted by the Father (vv. 7-11) H. Jesus is the Son of God 1. "Son" in Scripture can mean simply one possessing the nature of something, whether literal or figurative (e.g. "Son of man," "sons of thunder," "sons of disobedience," cf. Mark 3:7; Eph. 2:1). 2. Usually when "son of" is used in relation to a person (son of man, son of Abraham, son of David, etc.) the son possesses the nature of his father. 3. Jesus is clearly not the literal Son of God, i.e., He was not physically procreated by God. 4. On the other hand, Jesus is clearly the Son of God in a unique sense (cf. "only-begotten son," John 1:14; 3:16, 18; 1 John 4:9) and in a preeminent sense (i.e. the term is more fitting for Him than for anyone else). 5. Scripture is explicit that the Son possesses God's essence or nature (cf. F. above). 6. Jesus' repeated claim to be the Son of God was consistently understood by the Jewish leaders as a blasphemous claim to equality with God, an understanding Jesus never denied: John 5:17-23; 8:58-59; 10:30-39; 19:7; Matt. 26:63-65. 7. Jesus is therefore by nature God's Son, not God's creation or God's servant; Jesus is God's Son who became a servant for our sake and for the Father's glory (John 13:13-15; 17:4; Phil. 2:6-11; Heb. 1:4-13; 3:1-6; 5:8; etc.). I. Objections 1. Prov. 8:22: This text is not a literal description of Christ, but a poetic personification of wisdom (cf. all of Prov. 1-9, esp. 8:12-21; 9:1-6), poetically saying that God "got" His wisdom before He did

https://www.calvarychapelboston.com/Biblical Basis Trinity Bowman.pdf

 

[Katia]

The claim for Jesus being Michael the angel first came about by the Christian Connextion cult, movement. They deny the deity of Christ. And, came up with that claim to avoid scriptures related to Jesus being fully God. The CC had some of their pastors among the early Adventists including James White who was Ellen White's husband. Uriah Smith was another CC minister who was in charge of publishing SDA books. Some SDA People influenced Pastor Russell who started the Bible Students Movement which later became the Jehovah's Witnesses when Rutherford renamed the group. Some SDA back then taught Semi-Arianism, but those of the CC were out and out Arians. Now think about this would a true prophet of God marry someone who taught a false Christ?

I leave those people in peace, but don't take them seriously. I don't know where their ideas come from. There are others I could name. Personally, I hope that time is getting short and it has been 15 or more years since I thought about Tribulation theories. I'm a peaceful spiritual maverick.

 

[Katia]

VI. Jesus Christ Is God A. Explicit statements 1. Isa. 9:6; note 10:21. Translations which render "mighty hero," are inconsistent in their rendering of 10:21. Also note that Ezek. 32:21 is (a) not in the same context, as is Isa. 10:21, and (b) speaking of false gods, cf. I.G.5. above. 2. John 1:1 Even if Jesus is here called "a god" (as some have argued), since there is only one God, Jesus is that God. However, the "a god" rendering is incorrect. Other passages using the Greek word for God (theos) in the same construction are always rendered "God": Mark 12:27; Luke 20:38; John 8:54; Phil 2:13; Heb. 11:16. Passages in which a shift occurs from ho theos ("the God") to theos ("God") never imply a shift in meaning: Mark 12:27; Luke 20:37- 38; John 3:2; 13:3; Rom. 1:21; 1 Thess. 1:9; heb. 9:14; 1 Pet. 4:10- 11 3. John 1:18. The best manuscripts have "the unique God" (monogenês, frequently rendered "only-begotten," actually means "one of a kind," "unique," though in the NT always in the context of a son or daughter). Even if one translates "only-begotten," the idea is not of a "begotten god" as opposed to an "unbegotten god." 4. John 20:28. Compare Rev. 4:11, where the same construction is used in the plural ("our") instead of the singular ("my"). See also Psa. 35:23. Note that Christ's response indicates that Thomas' acclamation was not wrong. Also note that John 20:17 does show that the Father was Jesus' "God" (due to Jesus becoming a man), but the words "my God" as spoken by Thomas later in the same chapter must mean no less than in v. 17. Thus, what the Father is to Jesus in His humanity, Jesus is to Thomas (and therefore to us as well). 5. Acts 20:28: "the church of God which He purchased with His own blood." The variant readings (e.g. "the church of the Lord") show that the original was understood to mean "His own blood," not "the blood of His own [Son]" (since otherwise no one would have thought to change it). Thus all other renderings are attempts to evade the startling clarity and meaning of this passage. 6. Rom. 9:5. While grammatically this is not the only possible interpretation, the consistent form of doxologies in Scripture, as well as the smoothest reading of the text, supports the identification of Christ as "God" in this verse. 7. Titus 2:13. Grammatically and contextually, this is one of the strongest proof-texts for the deity of Christ. Sharp's first rule, properly understood, proves that the text should be translated "our great God and Savior" (cf. same construction in Luke 20:37; Rev. 1:6; and many other passages). Note also that Paul always uses the word "manifestation" ("appearing") of Christ: 2 Thess. 2:8; 1 Tim. 6:14; 2. Tim. 1:10; 4:1, 8. 8. Heb. 1:8. The rendering, "God is your throne," is nonsense - God is not a throne, He is the one who sits on the throne! Also, "God is your throne," if taken to mean God is the source of one's rule, could be said about any angelic ruler - but Hebrews 1 is arguing that Jesus is superior to the angels. 9. 2 Pet. 1:1. The same construction is used here as in Titus 2:13; see the parallel passages in 2 Pet. 1:11; 2:20; 3:2, 18. 10. 1 John 5:20. Note that the most obvious antecedent for "this" is Jesus Christ. Also note that the "eternal life" is Christ, as can be seen from 1:2. B. Jesus is Jehovah/Yahweh 1. Rom. 10:9-13: Note the repeated "for," which links these verses closely together. The "Lord" of 10:13 must be the "Lord" of 10:9, 12. 2. Phil. 2:9-11. In context, the "name that is above every name" is "Lord" (vs. 11), i.e., Jehovah. 3. Heb. 1:10: Here God the Father addresses the Son as "Lord," in a quotation from Psa. 102:25 (cf. 102:24, where the person addressed is called "God"). Since here the Father addresses the Son as "Lord," this cannot be explained away as a text in which a creature addresses Christ as God/Lord in a merely representational sense. 4. 1 Pet. 2:3-4: This verse is nearly an exact quotation of Psa. 34:8a, where "Lord" is Jehovah. From 1 Pet. 2:4-8 it is also clear that "the Lord" in v. 3 is Jesus. 5. 1 Pet. 3:14-15: these verses are a clear reference to Isa. 8:12-13, where the one who is to be regarded as holy is Jehovah. 6. Texts where Jesus is spoken of as the "one Lord" (cf. Deut. 6:4; Mark 12:29): 1 Cor. 8:6; Eph. 4:5; cf. Rom. 10:12; 1 Cor. 12:5. C. Jesus has the titles of God 1. Titles belonging only to God a. The first and the last: Rev. 1:17; 22:13; cf. Isa. 44:6 b. King of kings and Lord of lords: 1 Tim. 6:15; Rev. 17:14; 19:16 2. Titles belonging in the ultimate sense only to God a. Savior: Luke 2:11; John 4:42; 1 John 4:14; Titus 2:13, cf. v. 10; etc.; cf. Isa. 43.11; 45:21-22; 1 Tim. 4:10; on Jesus becoming the source of salvation; Heb. 5:9, cf. Ex. 15:2; Psa. 118:14, 21 b. Shepherd: John 10:11; Heb. 13:20; cf. Psa. 23:1; Isa. 40:11 c. Rock: 1 Cor. 10:4; cf. Isa. 44:8 D. Jesus received the honors due to God alone 1. Honor: John 5:23 2. Love: Matt. 10:37 3. Prayer: John 14:14 (text debated, but in any case it is Jesus who answers the prayer); Acts 1:24-25; 7:59-60 (cf. Luke 23:34, 46); Rom. 10:12-13; 1 Cor. 1:2; 2 Cor. 12:8-10 (where "the Lord" must be Jesus, cf. v. 9); 2 Thess. 2:16-17; etc. 4. Worship (proskuneô): Matt. 28:17; Heb. 1:6 (cf. Psa. 97:7); cf. Matt 4:10 5. Religious or sacred service (latreuô): Rev. 22:13 6. Doxological praise: 2 Tim. 4:18; 2 Pet. 3:18; Rev. 1:5-6; 5:13 7. Faith: John 3:16; 14:1; etc. E. Jesus does the works of God 1. Creation: John 1:3; 1 Cor. 8:6; Col. 1:16-17; Heb. 1:2; Rev. 3:14 (where archê probably means ruler); on "through" and "in" cf. Rom. 11:36; Heb. 2:10; Acts 17:28; cf. also Isa. 44:24 2. Sustains the universe: Col. 1:17; Heb. 1:3, 11-12 3. Salvation: a. In General: See C.2.a. above b. Forgives sins: Matt. 9:1-8; Mark 2:1-12; Luke 5:17-26; note that Jesus forgives sins not committed against Him. 4. All of them: John 5:17-29 (including judgment, cf. Matt. 25:31- 46; 2 Cor. 5:10) F. Jesus has all the incommunicable attributes of God 1. All of them: John 1:1; Phil. 2:6; Col. 1:15; 2:9; Heb. 1:3 2. Self-existent: John 5:26 3. Unchangeable: Heb. 1:10-12 (in the same sense as YHWH); 13:8 4. Eternal: John 1:1; 8:58; 17:5; Col. 1:17; Heb. 1:2 5. Omnipresent: Matt. 18:20; 28:20; John 3:13; Eph. 1:23; 4:10; Col. 3:11 6. Omniscient: John 16:30; 21:17; cf. 2:23-24 7. Incomprehensible: Matt. 11:25-27 G. Jesus is "equal with God" 1. John 5:18: Although John is relating what the Jews understood Jesus to be claiming, the context shows they were basically right: In v. 17 claimed to be exempt from the Sabbath along with His Father, and in 5:19-29 Jesus claimed to do all of the world of the Father and to deserve the same honor as the Father 2. Phil. 2:6: Jesus did not attempt to seize recognition by the world as being equal with God, but attained that recognition by humbling himself and being exalted by the Father (vv. 7-11) H. Jesus is the Son of God 1. "Son" in Scripture can mean simply one possessing the nature of something, whether literal or figurative (e.g. "Son of man," "sons of thunder," "sons of disobedience," cf. Mark 3:7; Eph. 2:1). 2. Usually when "son of" is used in relation to a person (son of man, son of Abraham, son of David, etc.) the son possesses the nature of his father. 3. Jesus is clearly not the literal Son of God, i.e., He was not physically procreated by God. 4. On the other hand, Jesus is clearly the Son of God in a unique sense (cf. "only-begotten son," John 1:14; 3:16, 18; 1 John 4:9) and in a preeminent sense (i.e. the term is more fitting for Him than for anyone else). 5. Scripture is explicit that the Son possesses God's essence or nature (cf. F. above). 6. Jesus' repeated claim to be the Son of God was consistently understood by the Jewish leaders as a blasphemous claim to equality with God, an understanding Jesus never denied: John 5:17-23; 8:58-59; 10:30-39; 19:7; Matt. 26:63-65. 7. Jesus is therefore by nature God's Son, not God's creation or God's servant; Jesus is God's Son who became a servant for our sake and for the Father's glory (John 13:13-15; 17:4; Phil. 2:6-11; Heb. 1:4-13; 3:1-6; 5:8; etc.). I. Objections 1. Prov. 8:22: This text is not a literal description of Christ, but a poetic personification of wisdom (cf. all of Prov. 1-9, esp. 8:12-21; 9:1-6), poetically saying that God "got" His wisdom before He did

https://www.calvarychapelboston.com/Biblical Basis Trinity Bowman.pdf

Wow, that is a lot of scripture to unpack! Perhaps you'd want to publish it in book form?

 

[tourist]

VI. Jesus Christ Is God A. Explicit statements 1. Isa. 9:6; note 10:21. Translations which render "mighty hero," are inconsistent in their rendering of 10:21. Also note that Ezek. 32:21 is (a) not in the same context, as is Isa. 10:21, and (b) speaking of false gods, cf. I.G.5. above. 2. John 1:1 Even if Jesus is here called "a god" (as some have argued), since there is only one God, Jesus is that God. However, the "a god" rendering is incorrect. Other passages using the Greek word for God (theos) in the same construction are always rendered "God": Mark 12:27; Luke 20:38; John 8:54; Phil 2:13; Heb. 11:16. Passages in which a shift occurs from ho theos ("the God") to theos ("God") never imply a shift in meaning: Mark 12:27; Luke 20:37- 38; John 3:2; 13:3; Rom. 1:21; 1 Thess. 1:9; heb. 9:14; 1 Pet. 4:10- 11 3. John 1:18. The best manuscripts have "the unique God" (monogenês, frequently rendered "only-begotten," actually means "one of a kind," "unique," though in the NT always in the context of a son or daughter). Even if one translates "only-begotten," the idea is not of a "begotten god" as opposed to an "unbegotten god." 4. John 20:28. Compare Rev. 4:11, where the same construction is used in the plural ("our") instead of the singular ("my"). See also Psa. 35:23. Note that Christ's response indicates that Thomas' acclamation was not wrong. Also note that John 20:17 does show that the Father was Jesus' "God" (due to Jesus becoming a man), but the words "my God" as spoken by Thomas later in the same chapter must mean no less than in v. 17. Thus, what the Father is to Jesus in His humanity, Jesus is to Thomas (and therefore to us as well). 5. Acts 20:28: "the church of God which He purchased with His own blood." The variant readings (e.g. "the church of the Lord") show that the original was understood to mean "His own blood," not "the blood of His own [Son]" (since otherwise no one would have thought to change it). Thus all other renderings are attempts to evade the startling clarity and meaning of this passage. 6. Rom. 9:5. While grammatically this is not the only possible interpretation, the consistent form of doxologies in Scripture, as well as the smoothest reading of the text, supports the identification of Christ as "God" in this verse. 7. Titus 2:13. Grammatically and contextually, this is one of the strongest proof-texts for the deity of Christ. Sharp's first rule, properly understood, proves that the text should be translated "our great God and Savior" (cf. same construction in Luke 20:37; Rev. 1:6; and many other passages). Note also that Paul always uses the word "manifestation" ("appearing") of Christ: 2 Thess. 2:8; 1 Tim. 6:14; 2. Tim. 1:10; 4:1, 8. 8. Heb. 1:8. The rendering, "God is your throne," is nonsense - God is not a throne, He is the one who sits on the throne! Also, "God is your throne," if taken to mean God is the source of one's rule, could be said about any angelic ruler - but Hebrews 1 is arguing that Jesus is superior to the angels. 9. 2 Pet. 1:1. The same construction is used here as in Titus 2:13; see the parallel passages in 2 Pet. 1:11; 2:20; 3:2, 18. 10. 1 John 5:20. Note that the most obvious antecedent for "this" is Jesus Christ. Also note that the "eternal life" is Christ, as can be seen from 1:2. B. Jesus is Jehovah/Yahweh 1. Rom. 10:9-13: Note the repeated "for," which links these verses closely together. The "Lord" of 10:13 must be the "Lord" of 10:9, 12. 2. Phil. 2:9-11. In context, the "name that is above every name" is "Lord" (vs. 11), i.e., Jehovah. 3. Heb. 1:10: Here God the Father addresses the Son as "Lord," in a quotation from Psa. 102:25 (cf. 102:24, where the person addressed is called "God"). Since here the Father addresses the Son as "Lord," this cannot be explained away as a text in which a creature addresses Christ as God/Lord in a merely representational sense. 4. 1 Pet. 2:3-4: This verse is nearly an exact quotation of Psa. 34:8a, where "Lord" is Jehovah. From 1 Pet. 2:4-8 it is also clear that "the Lord" in v. 3 is Jesus. 5. 1 Pet. 3:14-15: these verses are a clear reference to Isa. 8:12-13, where the one who is to be regarded as holy is Jehovah. 6. Texts where Jesus is spoken of as the "one Lord" (cf. Deut. 6:4; Mark 12:29): 1 Cor. 8:6; Eph. 4:5; cf. Rom. 10:12; 1 Cor. 12:5. C. Jesus has the titles of God 1. Titles belonging only to God a. The first and the last: Rev. 1:17; 22:13; cf. Isa. 44:6 b. King of kings and Lord of lords: 1 Tim. 6:15; Rev. 17:14; 19:16 2. Titles belonging in the ultimate sense only to God a. Savior: Luke 2:11; John 4:42; 1 John 4:14; Titus 2:13, cf. v. 10; etc.; cf. Isa. 43.11; 45:21-22; 1 Tim. 4:10; on Jesus becoming the source of salvation; Heb. 5:9, cf. Ex. 15:2; Psa. 118:14, 21 b. Shepherd: John 10:11; Heb. 13:20; cf. Psa. 23:1; Isa. 40:11 c. Rock: 1 Cor. 10:4; cf. Isa. 44:8 D. Jesus received the honors due to God alone 1. Honor: John 5:23 2. Love: Matt. 10:37 3. Prayer: John 14:14 (text debated, but in any case it is Jesus who answers the prayer); Acts 1:24-25; 7:59-60 (cf. Luke 23:34, 46); Rom. 10:12-13; 1 Cor. 1:2; 2 Cor. 12:8-10 (where "the Lord" must be Jesus, cf. v. 9); 2 Thess. 2:16-17; etc. 4. Worship (proskuneô): Matt. 28:17; Heb. 1:6 (cf. Psa. 97:7); cf. Matt 4:10 5. Religious or sacred service (latreuô): Rev. 22:13 6. Doxological praise: 2 Tim. 4:18; 2 Pet. 3:18; Rev. 1:5-6; 5:13 7. Faith: John 3:16; 14:1; etc. E. Jesus does the works of God 1. Creation: John 1:3; 1 Cor. 8:6; Col. 1:16-17; Heb. 1:2; Rev. 3:14 (where archê probably means ruler); on "through" and "in" cf. Rom. 11:36; Heb. 2:10; Acts 17:28; cf. also Isa. 44:24 2. Sustains the universe: Col. 1:17; Heb. 1:3, 11-12 3. Salvation: a. In General: See C.2.a. above b. Forgives sins: Matt. 9:1-8; Mark 2:1-12; Luke 5:17-26; note that Jesus forgives sins not committed against Him. 4. All of them: John 5:17-29 (including judgment, cf. Matt. 25:31- 46; 2 Cor. 5:10) F. Jesus has all the incommunicable attributes of God 1. All of them: John 1:1; Phil. 2:6; Col. 1:15; 2:9; Heb. 1:3 2. Self-existent: John 5:26 3. Unchangeable: Heb. 1:10-12 (in the same sense as YHWH); 13:8 4. Eternal: John 1:1; 8:58; 17:5; Col. 1:17; Heb. 1:2 5. Omnipresent: Matt. 18:20; 28:20; John 3:13; Eph. 1:23; 4:10; Col. 3:11 6. Omniscient: John 16:30; 21:17; cf. 2:23-24 7. Incomprehensible: Matt. 11:25-27 G. Jesus is "equal with God" 1. John 5:18: Although John is relating what the Jews understood Jesus to be claiming, the context shows they were basically right: In v. 17 claimed to be exempt from the Sabbath along with His Father, and in 5:19-29 Jesus claimed to do all of the world of the Father and to deserve the same honor as the Father 2. Phil. 2:6: Jesus did not attempt to seize recognition by the world as being equal with God, but attained that recognition by humbling himself and being exalted by the Father (vv. 7-11) H. Jesus is the Son of God 1. "Son" in Scripture can mean simply one possessing the nature of something, whether literal or figurative (e.g. "Son of man," "sons of thunder," "sons of disobedience," cf. Mark 3:7; Eph. 2:1). 2. Usually when "son of" is used in relation to a person (son of man, son of Abraham, son of David, etc.) the son possesses the nature of his father. 3. Jesus is clearly not the literal Son of God, i.e., He was not physically procreated by God. 4. On the other hand, Jesus is clearly the Son of God in a unique sense (cf. "only-begotten son," John 1:14; 3:16, 18; 1 John 4:9) and in a preeminent sense (i.e. the term is more fitting for Him than for anyone else). 5. Scripture is explicit that the Son possesses God's essence or nature (cf. F. above). 6. Jesus' repeated claim to be the Son of God was consistently understood by the Jewish leaders as a blasphemous claim to equality with God, an understanding Jesus never denied: John 5:17-23; 8:58-59; 10:30-39; 19:7; Matt. 26:63-65. 7. Jesus is therefore by nature God's Son, not God's creation or God's servant; Jesus is God's Son who became a servant for our sake and for the Father's glory (John 13:13-15; 17:4; Phil. 2:6-11; Heb. 1:4-13; 3:1-6; 5:8; etc.). I. Objections 1. Prov. 8:22: This text is not a literal description of Christ, but a poetic personification of wisdom (cf. all of Prov. 1-9, esp. 8:12-21; 9:1-6), poetically saying that God "got" His wisdom before He did

https://www.calvarychapelboston.com/Biblical Basis Trinity Bowman.pdf

Huh?

 

[Katia]

Wow, that is a lot of scripture to unpack! Perhaps you'd want to publish it in book form?

Wow, that is a lot of scripture to unpack! Perhaps you'd want to publish it in book form? As to the Trinity, there is the scripture where God says, "This is my son, in whom I am well pleased". Sadly the Holy Spirit remains obscure, and I don't know why. I'm pretty peaceful about whether there is one person or three. We'll see sooner or later.

Calvary Chapel is one of the churches that threw me out. It is doubtful that I could walk into any church except the Unitarians and not be asked to leave. It's been good for me and prodded me to doing lots of study and praying alone. Now with Covid, that is doubly reinforced. Don't care to alarm folk, but I think that we are at the end.