IS MAN TOTALLY DEPRAVED?

[garee]

Um sorry, i can not agree in whole, yes we were created to do gods will, but not as robots,
When mankind was created, they were given the free will choice to do as god said, or disobey. In the end they disobeyed, and man has been fallen ever since.

I would agree not as robots but as mankind. But to do the will of the designer .

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Use everything.......Bible first, dictionary, concordance
Whatever it takes to get to truth

Now I have answered a lot that you asked.........how about looking up free will in your dictionary and giving the definition.
And its FREE WILL, not freewill.

You still have not answered when in history The things fortold by Isaiah the prophet in chapter 11 happened, after mocking me for not knowing history (see post 133 of dan 9 thread) and you now think you have the right to demand.

Many people use those things and come up with differing views, best t just stick with the word

You posted the defenition, i proved it did not say what you claim it says, end of story.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I would agree not as robots but as mankind. But to do the will of the designer .

Yes, it is our new nature, but we still fall short and still chose to do sin, because we still have free will, as adam and eve did. Before they sinned

 

[stonesoffire]

There is not a just man upon the earth that does good and sins not!

All these fancy words we use to make our points and argue amongst ourselves...dividing the body. When the truth is of few words but packs a wallop. Thanks DCon.

 

[PennEd]

And new members can check the thousands of times this has been argued in other threads. It's all still here. Right?

Kayla, I have to say, virtually EVERY conceivable subject matter on doctrine or Scripture has multitudes of threads. If we were limited to starting only threads that have never been discussed, we would likely have no new threads at all.

Are you sure you aren't against this thread merely because you disagree with the OP's thoughts on the issue?

 

[GraceAndTruth]

giving 20 scripture verses on God's view of natual man's state of mind is never enough for some people

 

[Macabeus]

REPROBATE – adokimos – unapproved, rejected, castaway, worthless, reprobate (Strong’s)

Men ordained to damnation (Webster’s)

Depravity – corrupt, perverse, marked by corruption or evil
Corrupt – morally degenerate, perverted, decline in moral standards
Perverse – turned away from what is right and good or correct and proper; wrong headed

Totally depraved is how God sees US, not how we see ourselves. The doctrine of total depravity says that man is as bad off as he can be, which may not always be manifested in conduct but is made manifest in every other way (opinions, ideology, desires, etc)

Unregenerate man is the natural man, the unbeliever. He oversteps the bound of decency God has set for man. In his natural state he is:
Full of iniquity – that which is altogether wrong
Wicked – the outward expression of his evil nature
Evil (in man) – that which opposes the goodness and holiness of God
Ungodly – lacks respect and reverence for God 2 Tim 3: 2-5
Lawless – is in open contempt of divine law
Disobedient – unwillingness to be led or guided in the ways of truth
Iniquitous – altogether wrong
In Error – gone astray from the bou
Deceitful - Jer 17:9
Hard Matt 19:8
Inclined to wickedness Is 32:6
Unstable in all his ways James 1:18

They distort the word to their own destruction 2 Peter 3;16

Reprobate (those who are ordained to damnation) stay in their natural state and perish
Spiritually dead – the natural man cannot receive the things of God because they are spiritually discerned (1 Cor 2:14) when Adam died spiritually for that first sin, all mankind died with him, and is imputed with Adam’s sin. Unless a man is regenerated in his spirit (made alive), he will perish.
Under Condemnation – Adam’s sin is imputed to all men, making all men born under condemnation for that sin. Romans 5: 12, 19 (judgement arose from ONE transgression resulting in condemnation Rom 5: 16)

the things that proceed out of the hearts of the unregenerate man and defile him: (Mark 7: 20-23)
evil thoughts Adulteries sensuality
fornications deeds of coveting envy
thefts wickedness slander
murders deceit pride
FOOLISHNESS

Rom 3:10 there is none who is righteous, no not one
Is 17:9 the heart is deceitful above all else and is desperately sick
Ecc 9:3 the hearts of the sons of men are full of evil
Rom 7: 18 in the flesh dwells no good thing
2 Tim 3:8 some men are reprobate concerning the truth

I like RC Sprouts definition that Total Depravity means that every faculty of man is fallen and corrupted by sin. We are sinful to the core, though we sometimes don't see how sinful we really are. It's not that we are as bad as we can possibly be, but we are fallen and completely alienated from God and slaves to sin until Redemption sets us free

 

[Nehemiah6]

giving 20 scripture verses on God's view of natural man's state of mind is never enough for some people

Unless those Scriptures are being misrepresented.

Calvinists misrepresent the sinful condition of the human race by taking it to an extreme which Scripture does not allow. As I have already stated Total Depravity (the T of TULIP) is a false doctrine, since it wilfully omits the fact (a) that every human being has a conscience, and (b) all humans are not continuously evil, or (c) incapable of responding to the Gospel under the convicting power of the Holy Spirit (the Gospel itself being the power of God unto salvation and the seed of the New Birth). Thus another false doctrine is created which puts regeneration (the New Birth) BEFORE saving faith.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

giving 20 scripture verses on God's view of natual man's state of mind is never enough for some people

Someone gave you a whole chapter and you ignored it, so you have lost the right to attack others who disagree with your intepretation of 20 verses.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I like RC Sprouts definition that Total Depravity means that every faculty of man is fallen and corrupted by sin. We are sinful to the core, though we sometimes don't see how sinful we really are. It's not that we are as bad as we can possibly be, but we are fallen and completely alienated from God and slaves to sin until Redemption sets us free

Sadly even true believers sometimes fail to see how sinful they still are.

 

[kaylagrl]

Kayla, I have to say, virtually EVERY conceivable subject matter on doctrine or Scripture has multitudes of threads. If we were limited to starting only threads that have never been discussed, we would likely have no new threads at all.
Are you sure you aren't against this thread merely because you disagree with the OP's thoughts on the issue?

I disagree with the thread because I've never once seen it end without anger,upset and division. There are a thousand threads here that I disagree with. One right now I think ought to be removed because it is against a group of people. But this subject seems to bring out the nastiness in people. We'll see if this thread is any different.

 

[Sackcloth-N-Ashes]

So you're saying that if the missionary hadn't gone to reach these people further with the Gospel that God would have condemned them to die in their sin? Do you know how many people in the world are not allowed to have a Bible? Are you saying that without a physical Bible in your hand you cannot be saved?!

Without the word of God there is no faith. How can people come to saving faith without the word my friend? Faith comes by hearing the word of God, but I think reading it can save as well.

 

[Hevosmies]

Without the word of God there is no faith. How can people come to saving faith without the word my friend? Faith comes by hearing the word of God, but I think reading it can save as well.

Jesus is called the Word of God too

There is that!

There is more to the Christian life than reading the bible and getting all our doctrinal ducks in a perfect row.

 

[Sackcloth-N-Ashes]

Jesus is called the Word of God too

There is that!

There is more to the Christian life than reading the bible and getting all our doctrinal ducks in a perfect row.

In every place, such as 1 Cor. 1:18-21, 26-31, Romans 1:16-17, 10:8-17, and Ephesians 1:13-14, the context is the written word, not the Word. The written word is what is used to bring the lost to saving faith in the Word, the Son of God.

 

[Hevosmies]

In every place, such as 1 Cor. 1:18-21, 26-31, Romans 1:16-17, 10:8-17, and Ephesians 1:13-14, the context is the written word, not the Word. The written word is what is used to bring the lost to saving faith in the Word, the Son of God.

Nobody had the written New testament in the book of Acts. It was all word to mouth.

Nobody had the entire new testament for a century. (Since revelation wasnt written until the 90s AD)

They went by whatever epistle/gospel they might of had, and were led by the Spirit.

 

[Sackcloth-N-Ashes]

Nobody had the written New testament in the book of Acts. It was all word to mouth.

Nobody had the entire new testament for a century. (Since revelation wasnt written until the 90s AD)

They went by whatever epistle/gospel they might of had, and were led by the Spirit.

But they went by the word of God.

Peter spoke through the OT scriptures.
Paul did as well.

 

[tourist]

first you have to pass the "born again" test

Your post on marriage in heaven suggests you are mormon..........are you?

No, I am a Catholic but have not attended mass for years due to believing that a lot of the Catholic doctrine and practices are contrary to scripture. As I believed that I said about heaven in previous posts, I believe marriage to be a contract between God, a man, and woman that is enforced until death of either the husband or the wife. In heaven there will be no death so therefore there can't be marriage as it is currently understood. I do hope that there will be male and female relationships but not really sure how that would play out if this was really true. I know exactly zero about Mormons. First and foremost I consider myself to be a Christian.

 

[dcontroversal]

All these fancy words we use to make our points and argue amongst ourselves...dividing the body. When the truth is of few words but packs a wallop. Thanks DCon.

Amen....the simplicity found in Christ......through and through!

 

[GraceAndTruth]

No, I am a Catholic but have not attended mass for years due to believing that a lot of the Catholic doctrine and practices are contrary to scripture. As I believed that I said about heaven in previous posts, I believe marriage to be a contract between God, a man, and woman that is enforced until death of either the husband or the wife. In heaven there will be no death so therefore there can't be marriage as it is currently understood. I do hope that there will be male and female relationships but not really sure how that would play out if this was really true. I know exactly zero about Mormons. First and foremost I consider myself to be a Christian.

OIC......it was your post about relationship between male and female that made me wonder about mormonism.
Jesus said there was neither male nor female in heaven. so. guess that answers that.

 

[garee]

Unless those Scriptures are being misrepresented.

Calvinists misrepresent the sinful condition of the human race by taking it to an extreme which Scripture does not allow. As I have already stated Total Depravity (the T of TULIP) is a false doctrine, since it wilfully omits the fact (a) that every human being has a conscience, and (b) all humans are not continuously evil, or (c) incapable of responding to the Gospel under the convicting power of the Holy Spirit (the Gospel itself being the power of God unto salvation and the seed of the New Birth). Thus another false doctrine is created which puts regeneration (the New Birth) BEFORE saving faith.

The conscience is simply a judgement hall that either accuses us or excuses us. God is greater than our conscience. Total Depravity lacks any faith to believe God . As in no faith not little but none. The faith to hear God is the gift of God. This is not of the imagination of our consciences as in who can know it. One day it accuses the next accuses.

It puts regeneration as the gift of saving faith.