Is it too late?

[awelight]

wattie, are you and I the only ones who have noticed what's going on? Has everyone else swallowed the Kool-Aid? Is the apostacy upon us?

NO - you are certainly not the only ones.

The World Church is rapidly coming together, just as the Lord spoke of it and the Father planned it. These events are grievous to the true believer but we should all take hope in that this was planned from the beginning according to Scripture. God is working all things to His determinate end.

This World Church, full of the worlds way of doing things, must continue to compromise with other religious beliefs in order to bring about a global unity. I read just the other day, where one of the so-called Christian book writers (Name left out intentionally), said that: "Muslims have a better understanding of whom Christ was than many Christian believers.". REALLY??? This kind of statement coming from one who professes a belief in Jesus Christ, is indeed a huge fall down a very slippery slope. But hey, we have to make room for the Muslim belief system. (He says with great sarcasm). True believers know that Christ is more than a Prophet, more than a Holy one sent from God.... He is the Eternal Son of God!!!!

As far as what true believers should do? If one finds themselves caught up in this mess, then - "Come out and be ye separate says the Lord." However, if one does just that, then understand you will lose fellowship with the ones you have known but you will gain further communion with God for doing so. Therefore, one must ask themselves, "Do I want to please God or please man?". What one should not do, is remain in one of these so-called churches thinking they might be able to fix the situation. This rarely, if ever works.

The years ahead will be difficult for true believers. The ones who hold to the TRUTH as taught in Holy Scripture. But Jesus Christ is The WORD and His TRUTH must be defended.... even unto death. It was always known, that a day was coming when True believers would find no truth being proclaimed in the worlds churches. No place to assemble but in homes again with like minded believers. Even the Book of Revelation, talks about a day when the Jews will abandon the Temple because it has been desecrated by the Anti-Christ.

Yes there are bleak days ahead but I say: "Even so... come Lord Jesus!".

 

[awelight]

You describe worldly things from a worldly perspective. The "real" church is the Body of Christ.

You are correct in this statement from a "universal" point of view. However, I think the main point of the thread is looking at the problem form the "local aspect". Physical, manifested churches or assemblies. They can be deceived, fall into apostasy. This was going on even in the time of the writings of Paul and Revelation. (Rev. 1-3).

As to the "Universal Aspect" , apostacy cannot touch the body as you well know. That body and all it's members will be redeemed and carried into Glory. Thank the Good Lord.

 

[awelight]

For the last hundred years or so, the church has been one step behind the world. As the world declines, so does the church. Where the world was yesterday is where the church is today.

You know John146, I believe you have your statement backwards. If you really give it more thought, I think you will see, it is the other way around.

Over the last 150 years are so, the Church began to stray further and further from the Truth. Only a very few churches were proclaiming the Truth of God's Holy Word by the 1970's.

Because of the church falling away and thus, the evil of Sin and church discipline no longer were being emphasized, the world fell into greater immorality. The churches were no longer casting out heretics and immoral members but were turning a blind eye to these things because increasing the membership roles became the priority. It is as if "evangelism" has gone completely overboard. All you have to do is say this little prayer and YOUR IN. Don't worry about those sins... there paid for on the cross and we know you have a busy life, so don't worry about studying the Bible, we will tell you what you need to know. (Sarcasm intentional).

Therefore, a world without an Objective Truth and proper guidance spun out of control. Of coarse, people like Dr. Spock and his books did not help matters. Don't discipline the children with a rod. Tragically, so-called pastors and believers were not carrying out proper Biblical discipline long before that.

Just a thought... take care.

 

[ResidentAlien]

You know John146, I believe you have your statement backwards. If you really give it more thought, I think you will see, it is the other way around.

Over the last 150 years are so, the Church began to stray further and further from the Truth. Only a very few churches were proclaiming the Truth of God's Holy Word by the 1970's.

Because of the church falling away and thus, the evil of Sin and church discipline no longer were being emphasized, the world fell into greater immorality. The churches were no longer casting out heretics and immoral members but were turning a blind eye to these things because increasing the membership roles became the priority. It is as if "evangelism" has gone completely overboard. All you have to do is say this little prayer and YOUR IN. Don't worry about those sins... there paid for on the cross and we know you have a busy life, so don't worry about studying the Bible, we will tell you what you need to know. (Sarcasm intentional).

Therefore, a world without an Objective Truth and proper guidance spun out of control. Of coarse, people like Dr. Spock and his books did not help matters. Don't discipline the children with a rod. Tragically, so-called pastors and believers were not carrying out proper Biblical discipline long before that.

Just a thought... take care.

You make a very good point.

 

[awelight]

There are plenty of good fellowships out there and plenty of faithful ministers, even some good ones on TV ... Jesus had megachurch

I think you must be pulling my leg. What good TV ministers are you referring too?

What good fellowship are you referring too? Proper fellowship is not just standing around talking. It is fellowship centered around Biblical Truth. Therefore, around doctrine with likeminded believers.

Act 2:42 And they continued steadfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.

 

[John146]

You know John146, I believe you have your statement backwards. If you really give it more thought, I think you will see, it is the other way around.

Over the last 150 years are so, the Church began to stray further and further from the Truth. Only a very few churches were proclaiming the Truth of God's Holy Word by the 1970's.

Because of the church falling away and thus, the evil of Sin and church discipline no longer were being emphasized, the world fell into greater immorality. The churches were no longer casting out heretics and immoral members but were turning a blind eye to these things because increasing the membership roles became the priority. It is as if "evangelism" has gone completely overboard. All you have to do is say this little prayer and YOUR IN. Don't worry about those sins... there paid for on the cross and we know you have a busy life, so don't worry about studying the Bible, we will tell you what you need to know. (Sarcasm intentional).

Therefore, a world without an Objective Truth and proper guidance spun out of control. Of coarse, people like Dr. Spock and his books did not help matters. Don't discipline the children with a rod. Tragically, so-called pastors and believers were not carrying out proper Biblical discipline long before that.

Just a thought... take care.

The world has always been in darkness, don't you think?

 

[Evmur]

I think you must be pulling my leg. What good TV ministers are you referring too?

What good fellowship are you referring too? Proper fellowship is not just standing around talking. It is fellowship centered around Biblical Truth. Therefore, around doctrine with likeminded believers.

Act 2:42 And they continued steadfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.

If you can't find good fellowship the problem is certainly with you.

If all you say about others is true then the right heart in those circumstances is to love the brethren and the assembly and earnestly seek it's prosperity.

When you die the truth will not die with you.

 

[Evmur]

What do you mean?

I mean whenever the true gospel is preach the crowds will come, if Jesus is truly being lifted up He will draw all men unto Him.

 

[Evmur]

Prayer, of course. That's a given.

But silence is what's gotten us to this point. It's our duty and responsibility to call out those who claim to be Christians who have strayed from the path. Maybe it's not my place to rebuke Rick Warren but I'm surprised someone closer to him hasn't said anything to him. If they did he clearly didn't listen.

"I charge you in the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who is to judge the living and the dead, and by his appearing and his kingdom: preach the word; be ready in season and out of season; reprove, rebuke, and exhort, with complete patience and teaching."-2 Timothy 1-2

There was an incident between Paul and Peter in Antioch in which Paul confronted Peter. The account of this incident is recorded in Galatians 2:11-14:

"But when Cephas came to Antioch, I opposed him to his face, because he stood condemned. For before certain men came from James, he was eating with the Gentiles; but when they came he drew back and separated himself, fearing the circumcision party. And the rest of the Jews acted hypocritically along with him, so that even Barnabas was led astray by their hypocrisy. But when I saw that their conduct was not in step with the truth of the gospel, I said to Cephas before them all, 'If you, though a Jew, live like a Gentile and not like a Jew, how can you force the Gentiles to live like Jews?' "

When Paul recounted this event to the Galatians was he gossiping or teaching them?

Carps and critics have been galore.

God's message for the end times is "forsake not the gathering of yourselves together as the manner of some is, especially when you see the time drawing near."

 

[ResidentAlien]

Carps and critics have been galore.

God's message for the end times is "forsake not the gathering of yourselves together as the manner of some is, especially when you see the time drawing near."

I agree, forsake not the assembling of yourselves together. It doesn't say forsake not assembling with heretics and false teachers.

"And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather expose them."-Ephesians 5:11

I'm sure we disagree on what the "unfruitful works of darkness" are; we'll just have to agree to disagree on that one.

We can't have unity just for the sake of unity. Are you aware of the push that's been on for quite some time to unite Evangelicalism with Catholicism and Islam? Should we extend the right hand of fellowship to a total lie just for the sake of unity? This is the spirit of antichrist at work.

 

[ResidentAlien]

The Catholic church already has no problem with Islam and hasn't since Vatican II. The Catholic catechism, paragraph 841, states:

"841 The Church's relationship with the Muslims. "The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind's judge on the last day."​

​

Notice "together with us." What this says is the official position of the Catholic church has no problem with Islam, since they both worship the same "god." I agree they both worship the same god but it's not the God I worship.

This is exactly what Brian Houston said as quoted above.

Pretty soon it's going to be one big happy family: Islam, Catholicism and Evangelicalism hand-in-hand skipping merrily down the (broad) road.

 

[Magenta]

I mean whenever the true gospel is preach the crowds will come, if Jesus is truly being lifted up He will draw all men unto Him.

John 12:31-32

 

[posthuman]

I mean whenever the true gospel is preach the crowds will come, if Jesus is truly being lifted up He will draw all men unto Him.

some to adore Him, but many to scorn & mock

 

[ResidentAlien]

I mean whenever the true gospel is preach the crowds will come, if Jesus is truly being lifted up He will draw all men unto Him.

With all due respect, this is a ridiculous argument. Crowd size has nothing at all to do with the preaching of the true gospel. Rock concerts draw large crowds, as do sporting events, etc.

The crowds followed Jesus mostly because of His miracles. This in part explains the modern megachurch phenomenon. What you have are claims of outright miracles taking place or promises of miracles: health and wealth mainly, but basically whatever you need to have what you think is the "good life" the megachurches are happy to promise. Whether they can deliver on these promises is another matter. But all that's necessary to keep "customers" coming back is the belief that they can. There are also very professional "praise and worship" leaders there to entertain you. Oftentimes there's not that much difference between these "praise and worship" services and an actual rock concert.

The difference between the large crowds that followed Jesus and modern megachurches is Jesus served while megachurch leaders are served. Jesus delivered, megachurches may or may not deliver. And even if they do, is it the truth they're delivering or self-indulgence?

 

[tourist]

Pretty soon it's going to be one big happy family: Islam, Catholicism and Evangelicalism hand-in-hand skipping merrily down the (broad) road.

Is that the yellow brick road?

 

[GRACE_ambassador]

The difference between the large crowds that followed Jesus and modern megachurches is Jesus served while megachurch leaders are served. Jesus delivered, megachurches may or may not deliver. And even if they do, is it the truth they're delivering or self-indulgence?

Precious friend, agree, and Even WORSE is a megachurch I heard of recently
bragging/Boasting of "performing FIFTY THOUSAND baptisms." I thought we
were supposed to preaching JESUS CHRIST and HIM Crucified/Resurrected,
Correct?

I say WORSE, because IF there is NO water For Today, is not their "bragging"
Also blaspheming God's Pure And Holy Word? But, I could be mistaken?:

Prophecy/Law for ISRAEL:
►►► The Twelve Were Sent to {water} baptize! ◄◄◄

The TWO Main (of 12) baptismS =

A) water, For remission of sins/induction into Israeli "priesthood!":
(Matthew_3:5-6; Mark_1:4; Luke_3:3; John_1:31; Luke_7:29-30; Acts_10:37)
(Matthew_28:19; Mark_16:16; Acts_2:38, 22:16; Ezekiel_36:25)
+
B) WITH The Holy Spirit, Poured Out By CHRIST, for power, signs And wonders!
(Isaiah_44:3; Matthew_3:11; Mark_1:8, 16:17-18;
Luke_24:49; Acts_2:17-18, 38, 8:15-17, 11:16)
Prophecy/Law

Rightly Divided (2_Timothy_2:15 KJB!) From Things That Differ!:

Mystery/GRACE! =
our "apostle to the Gentiles" for The Body Of CHRIST:

►►► Paul Was Not Sent to {water} baptize! Why Not?: ◄◄◄

Today: Only ONE Baptism = "BY" The ONE Spirit = God's OPERATION,
Spiritually Identifying members In (The ONE Body Of) CHRIST!!
(Ephesians_4:5; Colossians_2:12; Galatians_3:27;
Romans_6:3-4; ►►► 1 Corinthians 12:13 KJB! ◄◄◄)

ONE "Spiritual" BAPTISM, Correct?
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Conclusion: God's ONE Baptism Today? = ONE
OR, EQUALS TWO? {NO "critic" has Explained this WITH {ADDED} WATER, ...
...yet... STILL waiting }

Is it not Possible That God's Answer Of "NO water baptism, for
us Today," Under HIS Pure GRACE, absolutely vanquishes Satan's
{Many Severely DIVIDED denominations?} Confusion into oblivion!?

FULL "studies" here:
12 baptisms Rightly Divided From: ONE Baptism
----------------------------------------
Please be Richly Encouraged, enlightened, exhorted, and edified!
God's Simple Will!

 

[Evmur]

With all due respect, this is a ridiculous argument. Crowd size has nothing at all to do with the preaching of the true gospel. Rock concerts draw large crowds, as do sporting events, etc.

The crowds followed Jesus mostly because of His miracles. This in part explains the modern megachurch phenomenon. What you have are claims of outright miracles taking place or promises of miracles: health and wealth mainly, but basically whatever you need to have what you think is the "good life" the megachurches are happy to promise. Whether they can deliver on these promises is another matter. But all that's necessary to keep "customers" coming back is the belief that they can. There are also very professional "praise and worship" leaders there to entertain you. Oftentimes there's not that much difference between these "praise and worship" services and an actual rock concert.

The difference between the large crowds that followed Jesus and modern megachurches is Jesus served while megachurch leaders are served. Jesus delivered, megachurches may or may not deliver. And even if they do, is it the truth they're delivering or self-indulgence?

yes a good rock band can gather large crowds but a dead and alive gospel will not attract more than a few grey heads. John Lennon was able to claim that the Beatles were popular than Jesus, he was wrong but it was a reasonable observation to make. you need to lift your eyes a little over your parapet because even if God is not doing many mighty works in your town He sure is in other parts of the world.

God's will for YOU is that you might be in health and prosper even as your soul prospereth.

That has always been God's will for man.

That's why He placed man in a beautiful garden overflowing with every blessing. He was David's Good Shepherd. Of course David was persecuted for God's favour that was upon his life and so will we be. But nothing can stop us from getting the promises of God for this life and for the life to come, nothing except wilful sin that is. When David sinned he forfeited God's blessing, when he repented he found himself back in favour.

God may ask us to forgo the blessings in order that we can bring the good news to others as He did with Paul and Corrie ten Boom, if God requires that He will tell us about it.

Jesus was a prosperity preacher ... oh yes

"Give and it shall be given unto you again, good measure, pressed down and shaken together and running over shall men put into our bosom" are you one of those who do not like to dig too deep? maybe you do give, maybe you give sacrificially but do you believe God's word concerning giving?

God will only give to faith, if you sit there in unbelief you won't get a penny from God.

Just be careful who you give it to ...

 

[Evmur]

NO - you are certainly not the only ones.

The World Church is rapidly coming together, just as the Lord spoke of it and the Father planned it. These events are grievous to the true believer but we should all take hope in that this was planned from the beginning according to Scripture. God is working all things to His determinate end.

This World Church, full of the worlds way of doing things, must continue to compromise with other religious beliefs in order to bring about a global unity. I read just the other day, where one of the so-called Christian book writers (Name left out intentionally), said that: "Muslims have a better understanding of whom Christ was than many Christian believers.". REALLY??? This kind of statement coming from one who professes a belief in Jesus Christ, is indeed a huge fall down a very slippery slope. But hey, we have to make room for the Muslim belief system. (He says with great sarcasm). True believers know that Christ is more than a Prophet, more than a Holy one sent from God.... He is the Eternal Son of God!!!!

As far as what true believers should do? If one finds themselves caught up in this mess, then - "Come out and be ye separate says the Lord." However, if one does just that, then understand you will lose fellowship with the ones you have known but you will gain further communion with God for doing so. Therefore, one must ask themselves, "Do I want to please God or please man?". What one should not do, is remain in one of these so-called churches thinking they might be able to fix the situation. This rarely, if ever works.

The years ahead will be difficult for true believers. The ones who hold to the TRUTH as taught in Holy Scripture. But Jesus Christ is The WORD and His TRUTH must be defended.... even unto death. It was always known, that a day was coming when True believers would find no truth being proclaimed in the worlds churches. No place to assemble but in homes again with like minded believers. Even the Book of Revelation, talks about a day when the Jews will abandon the Temple because it has been desecrated by the Anti-Christ.

Yes there are bleak days ahead but I say: "Even so... come Lord Jesus!".

Why do you listen to these preachers? ... I don't

 

[Seeker47]

I have no prophetic vision but I do recognize a growing awareness that the church in the west has strayed far from God's word. It is also pretty easy to see a culture in free-fall, going headlong down to disaster but unable to change course.

But there are also signs that a few are aware and are turning from the church and going back to true worship. Maybe this is the "revival". The numbers are small but The Messiah began his church with small numbers, not mega-churches with expensive sound and audio systems designed to entertain. He commissioned his tiny assembly to go into the world and be salt.

 

[Evmur]

I agree, forsake not the assembling of yourselves together. It doesn't say forsake not assembling with heretics and false teachers.

"And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather expose them."-Ephesians 5:11

I'm sure we disagree on what the "unfruitful works of darkness" are; we'll just have to agree to disagree on that one.

We can't have unity just for the sake of unity. Are you aware of the push that's been on for quite some time to unite Evangelicalism with Catholicism and Islam? Should we extend the right hand of fellowship to a total lie just for the sake of unity? This is the spirit of antichrist at work.

We know all about that ... theys the same people who hate mega church, they hate for people to hear that God's will for people is GOOD, that He hears and answers prayer. You can't talk about miracles to those folk.