Is God A Moral Monster?
- Thread starter Roughsoul1991
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Thank you for clarifying your earlier remarks. I was not aware of what you shared concerning them.
I do believe however, that accusations that a Christian doesn't believe the Bible, as I've been accused a time or two, does need to stop.
That would not apply to you as I wrongly believed in my prior remarks to you, thanks to your illuminating the exchange between yourself and Dibby53.
It is a Bible discussion forum. We should be able to debate scripture, share our personal understandings, without being charged as one who doesn't believe the Bible.
"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it."
I do believe however, that accusations that a Christian doesn't believe the Bible, as I've been accused a time or two, does need to stop.
That would not apply to you as I wrongly believed in my prior remarks to you, thanks to your illuminating the exchange between yourself and Dibby53.
It is a Bible discussion forum. We should be able to debate scripture, share our personal understandings, without being charged as one who doesn't believe the Bible.
"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it."
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You will have to forgive me and I apologize. I probably got you mixed up with others. Because I may not have actually questioned your beliefs to know what you believe. Your question for me sounded like you thought the Bible was not accurate after Abraham until Jesus.
As in the God that commanded Moses or Joshua wasn't the same God.
Yes I know the scrolls was true. We have many of them still today. But no not all the peoples understanding was corrupted. Many yes, but God did have a remnant that flocked to John the Baptist and then easily flocked to Jesus. Including some Gentiles recognized Jesus as divine.
As in the God that commanded Moses or Joshua wasn't the same God.
Yes I know the scrolls was true. We have many of them still today. But no not all the peoples understanding was corrupted. Many yes, but God did have a remnant that flocked to John the Baptist and then easily flocked to Jesus. Including some Gentiles recognized Jesus as divine.
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I completely understand but sometimes if something as they say walks and quacks like a duck then our reasoning and past experiences tells us it must be a duck.
If you thought the Bible wasn't 100% then by contradiction the individual doesn't believe the whole Bible. I meant it as a fact and not a insult to where as I have never treated him poorly but always was willing to discuss with him.
I would think he would agree with my actions towards him. He is a nice fellow.
If you thought the Bible wasn't 100% then by contradiction the individual doesn't believe the whole Bible. I meant it as a fact and not a insult to where as I have never treated him poorly but always was willing to discuss with him.
I would think he would agree with my actions towards him. He is a nice fellow.
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Since my views, or lack of them, have come up let me clarify.
I do not believe the bible is inerrant or infallible. And I am not a literalist. Since the bible books were written by human beings with all sorts of agendas, cultural biases and different experiences of life. They did not know the things we know today about science, outer space, genetics etc. They don't claim to.
Evangelical Christians say that God somehow overode their flawed humanity to write through them. Kind of like a form of automatic writing. So that we have ended up with something perfect. I don't believe this. In fact I think such a view can be dangerous to morality (For instance, in the genocide passages a literalist believer is forced to justify murders because to question this would mean they are questioning God, rather than an account written by people).
There is no evidence for an infallible and perfect bible ( only God himself is infallible and perfect). Science disproves a literalist understanding of Genesis creation. Scholarship shows that some biblical accounts are based on earlier sources (for instance, Moses birth is a retelling of the birth of Sargon the Great, king of Akkad who was also laid in a basket of rushes and placed in a river).
The archaeological work of Israeli scientists is also casting new light upon the bible.
Does this invalidate the bible? No. It makes it a far more interesting story of human reaching towards God and a spiritual understanding that is evolving. To me this culminates in the understanding that God is Love and that God is Light, in him is no darkness at all. This is a different understanding to older scriptures in which God is responsible for the light and the dark.
This is why I can unequivocally say that God would not be responsible for ordering wholesale slaughter. Since I am not a literalist I am not trying to take disparate aspects of biblical accounts of God's character ( many unsavoury) and trying to patchwork quilt them all together.
Is God a moral monster? NO! But do humans sometimes become moral monsters and blame God? YES!
I do not believe the bible is inerrant or infallible. And I am not a literalist. Since the bible books were written by human beings with all sorts of agendas, cultural biases and different experiences of life. They did not know the things we know today about science, outer space, genetics etc. They don't claim to.
Evangelical Christians say that God somehow overode their flawed humanity to write through them. Kind of like a form of automatic writing. So that we have ended up with something perfect. I don't believe this. In fact I think such a view can be dangerous to morality (For instance, in the genocide passages a literalist believer is forced to justify murders because to question this would mean they are questioning God, rather than an account written by people).
There is no evidence for an infallible and perfect bible ( only God himself is infallible and perfect). Science disproves a literalist understanding of Genesis creation. Scholarship shows that some biblical accounts are based on earlier sources (for instance, Moses birth is a retelling of the birth of Sargon the Great, king of Akkad who was also laid in a basket of rushes and placed in a river).
The archaeological work of Israeli scientists is also casting new light upon the bible.
Does this invalidate the bible? No. It makes it a far more interesting story of human reaching towards God and a spiritual understanding that is evolving. To me this culminates in the understanding that God is Love and that God is Light, in him is no darkness at all. This is a different understanding to older scriptures in which God is responsible for the light and the dark.
This is why I can unequivocally say that God would not be responsible for ordering wholesale slaughter. Since I am not a literalist I am not trying to take disparate aspects of biblical accounts of God's character ( many unsavoury) and trying to patchwork quilt them all together.
Is God a moral monster? NO! But do humans sometimes become moral monsters and blame God? YES!
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I do believe the Biblical account of creation is correct, and here is why. I also believe the historical content to be accurate. That is why I am a believer. 
https://docs.google.com/document/d/...QxCe0dSfbk1rvJTqiZr0EskFRirwX-J6eWUXwCN2A/pub
https://docs.google.com/document/d/...QxCe0dSfbk1rvJTqiZr0EskFRirwX-J6eWUXwCN2A/pub
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I do believe the Biblical account of creation is correct, and here is why. I also believe the historical content to be accurate. That is why I am a believer.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/...QxCe0dSfbk1rvJTqiZr0EskFRirwX-J6eWUXwCN2A/pub
https://docs.google.com/document/d/...QxCe0dSfbk1rvJTqiZr0EskFRirwX-J6eWUXwCN2A/pub
Do you believe macro evolution has enough evidence? I suppose you must define evolution from your belief.
I just do not see it but actually the more we learn, the theory just keeps getting weaker. Intelligent Design or ID is becoming quite popular. It may not lead you to the Christian God but it does atleast admit the evidence that some events or some structures in nature from reason and experience we know only comes from intelligence.
I just do not see it but actually the more we learn, the theory just keeps getting weaker. Intelligent Design or ID is becoming quite popular. It may not lead you to the Christian God but it does atleast admit the evidence that some events or some structures in nature from reason and experience we know only comes from intelligence.
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I do believe that all we see is a result of intelligence. What is evolution if it is not the evolution of intelligence? However, it maybe a philosophical position rather than scientific one. Since science deals in verifiable facts with evidence.
In our discussion it may not say anything about the morality, or otherwise of the intelligence at work.
In our discussion it may not say anything about the morality, or otherwise of the intelligence at work.
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Try Eisegesis - eis is Greek for in, into. So reading into the text! In other words, putting your own meanings into the words of the Bible.
Try Exegesis - ex in Greek for out. So taking out of the text what is actually there.
Stop using words you can't even spell. I've had you on ignore for a pleasantly long time. Gave you the benefit of the doubt, realized you are still pretending to be something you aren't. Like a Greek Scholar, when you haven't gotten a clue what the words mean, let alone spell them correctly.
The mind of man far too often thinks it can conceptualize all that is God, and comprehend how God is all.
There is a study known as "Theistic Evolution", that you might find of interest.
"Theistic evolutionists believe in the same process as the naturalistic evolutionists, but they believe that it was a tool used and/or controlled by God. A theistic evolutionist would say that the early chapters in the Book of Genesis in the Bible are not to be taken literally...."
What Is An Evolutionist - Philosophy - AllAboutPhilosophy.org
There is a study known as "Theistic Evolution", that you might find of interest.
"Theistic evolutionists believe in the same process as the naturalistic evolutionists, but they believe that it was a tool used and/or controlled by God. A theistic evolutionist would say that the early chapters in the Book of Genesis in the Bible are not to be taken literally...."
What Is An Evolutionist - Philosophy - AllAboutPhilosophy.org
It's important to understand the strategy that Satan is employing via the Amalekites and other violent nephilim tribes. Satan is attempting to destroy the bloodline of the coming Savior by interbreeding nephilm (half angle, half human) over hundreds of years so that when the time of the Savior finally arrives there will not be a pure bloodline available at Christ's appointed time . Of course we now know that Satan failed in his is plan to take out the Messiah, thankfully.
Way I see it? To give "my reasons" to why?
Once ya get "past the basic principles of the doctrines of Christ?" May even refer to this as "common salvation?" People mature at different rates. That is, those that mature at all.
Which means that what a verse, er passage, er story, er prophecy, means to one reader of the Bible, may take on a more fuller, er less fuller, (depth of understanding) dependin', on one's level of maturity.
It seems, the more one relies on the Bible, and not the Spirit of God, to "lead/guide/direct" one? The more the God and Father of Jesus Christ, including Jesus Christ, become less God, and more "an idol."
Which is more or less what one is saying when the phrase "God in a box" is used.
To which "love" covers some of that. But, not all.
As some people, given an "inch" take a "mile."
Deuteronomy 32
15 But Jeshurun waxed fat, and kicked: thou art waxen fat, thou art grown thick, thou art covered with fatness; then he forsook God which made him, and lightly esteemed the Rock of his salvation.
16 They provoked him to jealousy with strange gods, with abominations provoked they him to anger.
17 They sacrificed unto devils, not to God; to gods whom they knew not, to new gods that came newly up, whom your fathers feared not.
18 Of the Rock that begat thee thou art unmindful, and hast forgotten God that formed thee.
19 And when the Lord saw it, he abhorred them, because of the provoking of his sons, and of his daughters.
20 And he said, I will hide my face from them, I will see what their end shall be: for they are a very froward generation, children in whom is no faith.
IOW? Love? When it is, or becomes "oppressed/seduced/beguiled" into being the sole focus of the believer?
Leaves said believer open to being blindsided, by the remaining "fruit of the Spirit", which has been neglected, for "loves" sake. And, to a non-understanding of why "bad things happen to good people."
Once ya get "past the basic principles of the doctrines of Christ?" May even refer to this as "common salvation?" People mature at different rates. That is, those that mature at all.
Which means that what a verse, er passage, er story, er prophecy, means to one reader of the Bible, may take on a more fuller, er less fuller, (depth of understanding) dependin', on one's level of maturity.
It seems, the more one relies on the Bible, and not the Spirit of God, to "lead/guide/direct" one? The more the God and Father of Jesus Christ, including Jesus Christ, become less God, and more "an idol."
Which is more or less what one is saying when the phrase "God in a box" is used.
To which "love" covers some of that. But, not all.
As some people, given an "inch" take a "mile."
Deuteronomy 32
15 But Jeshurun waxed fat, and kicked: thou art waxen fat, thou art grown thick, thou art covered with fatness; then he forsook God which made him, and lightly esteemed the Rock of his salvation.
16 They provoked him to jealousy with strange gods, with abominations provoked they him to anger.
17 They sacrificed unto devils, not to God; to gods whom they knew not, to new gods that came newly up, whom your fathers feared not.
18 Of the Rock that begat thee thou art unmindful, and hast forgotten God that formed thee.
19 And when the Lord saw it, he abhorred them, because of the provoking of his sons, and of his daughters.
20 And he said, I will hide my face from them, I will see what their end shall be: for they are a very froward generation, children in whom is no faith.
IOW? Love? When it is, or becomes "oppressed/seduced/beguiled" into being the sole focus of the believer?
Leaves said believer open to being blindsided, by the remaining "fruit of the Spirit", which has been neglected, for "loves" sake. And, to a non-understanding of why "bad things happen to good people."
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Maybe that just adds to the fact that we're in a relationship when we are in Christ. And as such each person in that relationship understands their partner, God, in their own way. And due to God knowing precisely how to communicate through the surface of His word in print on the Bible page, while the deeper message meant for that one reading is uniquely for them by God's will.
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