Is fellowship possible between Calvinists and Arminians?

[crossnote]

Is this because they preach, or because of what they preach?

It's what they don't preach. They don't preach what they teach. When have you heard a Calvinist say to an unsaved person, ”Christ died for the elect only”. Instead they will say 'Christ died for our sins'. To the hearer 'our' means all but to the Calvinist he is interpreting 'our' as the elect.
The Calvinist can't honestly say ”Christ died for 'your' sins” while witnessing as he would be assuming the person was one of the elect that Christ died for.

 

[Skinski7]

It's what they don't preach. They don't preach what they teach. When have you heard a Calvinist say to an unsaved person, ”Christ died for the elect only”. Instead they will say 'Christ died for our sins'. To the hearer 'our' means all but to the Calvinist he is interpreting 'our' as the elect.
The Calvinist can't honestly say ”Christ died for 'your' sins” while witnessing as he would be assuming the person was one of the elect that Christ died for.

Calvinism is such a monstrous doctrine that one has to be intellectually indoctrinated into it by degree. There is no way a strict 5-point Calvinist can tell someone what they truly believe and not have God appear as a monstrous tyrant.

I wonder how many strict 5-point Calvinists would officiate a funeral service of a little child and state that the deceased is possibly in hell. They have to dance around what they rally believe.

I have found most Calvinists will tell you what you want to hear but when you corner them with very specific questions they get very uncomfortable and tend to run and hide.

 

[jimmydiggs]

I wonder how many strict 5-point Calvinists would officiate a funeral service of a little child and state that the deceased is possibly in hell.

I'll do it. I spoke at my grandmothers funeral.

I have found most Calvinists will tell you what you want to hear but when you corner them with very specific questions they get very uncomfortable and tend to run and hide.

I'm right here. Fire away.

 

[zone]

I'll do it. I spoke at my grandmothers funeral.



I'm right here. Fire away.

Skinskis golden calf is about to be ground into powder.
Thirsty, skinski?

 

[jimmydiggs]

It's what they don't preach. They don't preach what they teach. When have you heard a Calvinist say to an unsaved person, ”Christ died for the elect only”.

I do, when relevant.

Instead they will say 'Christ died for our sins'. To the hearer 'our' means all but to the Calvinist he is interpreting 'our' as the elect.

I will say things like, "Christ died to atone for those that were, are, and will be his people.

The Calvinist can't honestly say ”Christ died for 'your' sins” while witnessing as he would be assuming the person was one of the elect that Christ died for.

This is correct. It is something I try to make sure I do not do.

 

[zone]

<Standingthegappism> is such a monstrous doctrine that one has to be intellectually indoctrinated into it by degree. There is no way a <standingthegapper> can tell someone what they truly believe and not have God appear as a monstrous tyrant.

I wonder how many <standingthegappers> would officiate a funeral service of a <little child? teenager? old man?> and state that the deceased is possibly in hell.

 

[crossnote]

I do, when relevant.


I will say things like, "Christ died to atone for those that were, are, and will be his people.




This is correct. It is something I try to make sure I do not do.

Thanks for your honesty.
You say 'when relevant' you tell the unsaved that 'Christ died only for the elect'.
Wouldn't that plant a stronghold of doubt in the hearers mind e.g. 'maybe I am not one that Christ died for' or 'if Christ died for some,how do I know He died for me'?

 

[1still_waters]

I'm saying this based on personal experience and as someone who agrees mostly with Calvinism. Sometimes I wonder if Calvinists can be friendly with anyone. For some reason, an abrasive/obnoxious personality and Calvinism seem to go hand in hand, based on my own personal experience.

 

[jimmydiggs]

Thanks for your honesty.

It's not always easy, I will concede.

It is by far much more convenient to say, "Jesus died for everyone, including you!" to motivate them to work against sin, but that would only be an act of the flesh against the flesh.

You say 'when relevant' you tell the unsaved that 'Christ died only for the elect'.

Yes, when relevant. When I preach the Gospel I don't give them a run down of A.W. Pink's The Sovereignty of God, or go through TULIP. Are Sovereignty and TULIP in the Gospel, and my proclamation of it? Yes. It isn't the totality of the Gospel though.

I speak first on the law, the school master that teaches about our sin, which is why the Cross has any significance. Then I tell them God has commanded them to repentance. I very much like Ray Comfort.

Wouldn't that plant a stronghold of doubt in the hearers mind e.g. 'maybe I am not one that Christ died for' or 'if Christ died for some,how do I know He died for me'?

In a sense I suppose, but I don't think this is a bad thing for us or God.

Example: I spoke with a Catholic about two or three weeks ago. When it got to this issue, that is when she shut down. She rejected Grace, and went on her merry way. I'm not too terribly concerned to be honest. The unregenerate will reject the Gospel call, and any truth about God as long as they remain unregenerate. The fact that she did not respond to the Gospel call with repentance and faith, is proof that she was not regenerate, and thus she would have rejected the truth of the Gospel, unless I were to give a false sugarcoated "gospel".

 

[crossnote]

Calvinism is such a monstrous doctrine that one has to be intellectually indoctrinated into it by degree. There is no way a strict 5-point Calvinist can tell someone what they truly believe and not have God appear as a monstrous tyrant.

I wonder how many strict 5-point Calvinists would officiate a funeral service of a little child and state that the deceased is possibly in hell. They have to dance around what they rally believe.

I have found most Calvinists will tell you what you want to hear but when you corner them with very specific questions they get very uncomfortable and tend to run and hide.

Funny, I came to embrace predestination and election long before I knew of Calvin. I just believed the Book of Ephesians and Romans.

 

[jimmydiggs]

Funny, I came to embrace predestination and election long before I knew of Calvin. I just believed the Book of Ephesians and Romans.

I still know very little on Calvin. It will probably remain that way for quite some time, because I'm not particularly concerned with the guy. I don't take my marching orders from him, nor Augustine.

 

[crossnote]

In a sense I suppose, but I don't think this is a bad thing for us or God.

Example: I spoke with a Catholic about two or three weeks ago. When it got to this issue, that is when she shut down. She rejected Grace, and went on her merry way. I'm not too terribly concerned to be honest. The unregenerate will reject the Gospel call, and any truth about God as long as they remain unregenerate. The fact that she did not respond to the Gospel call with repentance and faith, is proof that she was not regenerate, and thus she would have rejected the truth of the Gospel, unless I were to give a false sugarcoated "gospel".

'The unregenerate will reject the gospel call' But weren't we who have received the Gospel unregenerate at one time? Isn't it the Spirit working with His Gospel Word that the unregenerate become regenerate?

1Pet 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

Rom 10:15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!
Rom 10:16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?
Rom 10:17 So then faith [cometh] by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

 

[loveme1]

1 Corinthians 1

Paul, called to be an apostle of Jesus Christ through the will of God, and Sosthenes our brother,
2Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours:

3Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.

4I thank my God always on your behalf, for the grace of God which is given you by Jesus Christ; 5That in every thing ye are enriched by him, in all utterance, and in all knowledge; 6Even as the testimony of Christ was confirmed in you: 7So that ye come behind in no gift; waiting for the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ: 8Who shall also confirm you unto the end, that ye may be blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9God is faithful, by whom ye were called unto the fellowship of his Son Jesus Christ our Lord.

10Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment. 11For it hath been declared unto me of you, my brethren, by them which are of the house of Chloe, that there are contentions among you. 12Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ. 13Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul? 14I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius; 15Lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name. 16And I baptized also the household of Stephanas: besides, I know not whether I baptized any other. 17For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.

18For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

19For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.

20Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world? 21For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe. 22For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom: 23But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness; 24But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God. 25Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men.

26For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called: 27But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty; 28And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are: 29That no flesh should glory in his presence. 30But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption: 31That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord.

one says i'm of calvin another says i'm arminian... nothing new under the sun.

 

[zone]

Funny, I came to embrace predestination and election long before I knew of Calvin. I just believed the Book of Ephesians and Romans.

so did Calvin

 

[zone]

one says i'm of calvin another says i'm arminian... nothing new under the sun.

and others say i'm of Yahshua, and that Jesus is an evil pagan name which will damn.
but there is no YAHshua to be found anywhere in the Hebrew scriptures.
at all. ever.
very poor scholarship.
and a dangerous soteriological foundation - built entirely on sand.
to each their own...but if we are claiming "knowing" and "speaking" the Christ's name in Hebrew is critical for salvation, perhaps we ought to find out what His Name is in Hebrew.
it is NOT Yahshua..

"There are some groups that are so fervently convinced that the true name is Yahweh, that they have chosen to call their messiah Yahwehshua, or other variations, using the truncated form of Yah as a prefix.(Yahshua, Yahushua, Yahuwshua,Yahuashua, Yahvahshua, Yahoshua, etc). Their reasoning for this is rooted in the Scripture where Jesus is quoted, in John 5:43, as saying, &#8220;I have come in the name of My Father&#8221;. Due to this statement, they believe that He must then have part of the Fathers Name included in His Name...."

http://www.seekgod.ca/htname.htm < click.

like...seriously.

 

[loveme1]

and others say i'm of Yahshua, and that Jesus is an evil pagan name which will damn.
but there is no YAHshua to be found anywhere in the Hebrew scriptures.
at all. ever.
very poor scholarship.
and a dangerous soteriological foundation - built entirely on sand.
to each their own...but if we are claiming "knowing" and "speaking" the Christ's name in Hebrew is critical for salvation, perhaps we ought to find out what His Name is in Hebrew.
it is NOT Yahshua.

Even so it is closer than calling out "Luther" in english.....

And i have never said the words "critical for salvation".

 

[zone]

Even so it is closer than calling out "Luther" in english.....

And i have never said the words "critical for salvation".

loveme...i appreciate your devotion to the Lord. i really do.
you wouldn't be reading or holding a Bible in your hand AT ALL were it not for some men long ago who died to get one into your hands.
i don't think i've ever suggested Luther died for my sins.

are you or are you not an English speaker? like....are you ashamed of that?

it's fine for you to never darken the door of a lutheran church. probably for the best given your feelings on the matter.
but seriously, it's so very easy for us in 2013 to sit here and arm-chair quaterback about this or that. if we're going to make bold statements about Constantine (for example) ought we not to know the actual facts?

and, regarding having said or not said your particular rendering of the Savior's Name is correct, or more precisely that Jesus is evil and part of an evil agenda, yes you have said that....repeatedly.

acting as though you don't have your own "Luther" (which is a ridiculous accusation as you see); it's evident from your insistence in YAHshua and YAHavah that you DO adhere to a certian sect, and possibly have a Bible written by them, specifically advancing THEIR agenda!!

okay?

peace.

 

[loveme1]

loveme...i appreciate your devotion to the Lord. i really do.
you wouldn't be reading or holding a Bible in your hand AT ALL were it not for some men long ago who died to get one into your hands.
i don't think i've ever suggested Luther died for my sins.

are you or are you not an English speaker? like....are you ashamed of that?

it's fine for you to never darken the door of a lutheran church. probably for the best given your feelings on the matter.
but seriously, it's so very easy for us in 2013 to sit here and arm-chair quaterback about this or that. if we're going to make bold statements about Constantine ought we not to know the actual facts?

and, regarding having said or not said your particular rendering of the Savior's Name is correct, or more precisely that Jesus is evil and part of an evil agenda, yes you have said that....repeatedly.

acting as though you don't have your own "Luther" (which is a ridiculous accusation as you see); it's evident from your insistence in YAHshua and YAHavah that you DO adhere to a certian sect, and possibly have a Bible written by them, specifically advancing THEIR agenda!!

okay?

peace.

All i share was revealed by the Holy Spirit.

You are wrong on much and my Bible does not contain these names it was a member on here that made me aware that there is a Bible that uses those spellings.

That you can see in another thread.

I hold to no mans theology.

My Bible has nothing but the word no references at all.

I was taught by the Holy Spirit and i have witnessed that and if it is not True then i have lied.

We each have our journey to make and i have shared Scripture that seems to record people during that time partaking in the same thing that people do today... making themselves of a certain person.

The title of the thread says it all.

 

[zone]

All i share was revealed by the Holy Spirit.

no dear.
Yahshua or Yahavah were not revealed to you by the Holy Spirit.

your claim that they were shows you're not being honest.

those names are not in any way legitimate translations or transliterations of God in any language.
ask any genuine Hebrew speaker. speaking them or writing them can not be derived from an English reading of your Bible. and it's evident you do not read or speak Hebrew or Aramaic.

the idea that Jesus is an evil counterfeit Name was not revealed to you by the Holy Spirit.

Jesus is the absolutely etymologically correct name for the Savior in English.

as for the OP generally: is it possible for believer X to fellowship with believer Y....ask yourself about your own convictions on this matter. not only in your belief concerning sacred names (your choices being completely illegitimate), but also your convictions on other matters.

 

[Kefa52]

We can have all the beliefs we want. Our church or denomination is only where we choose to worship God. We are all first the body of Christ.
Bickering over denominational beliefs is not edifying in any way. I am a brother to Christ, in the body of Christ. I worship at a community church.
Our local church body is just where we decide to worship in a group.

&#8220;Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.&#8221;
Hebrews 10:25

Arguing over denominational differances is just another way to keep the CHURCH devided.