Is faith a reliable way to know truth?
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well, I didn't expect that answer, that you would keep a potentially conscious robot alive at the risk of your own survival. I think it is safe to say that many people (or most?) would terminate the robot if their personal survival was threatened.
let's rewind the story back to where you were on the island with another person. I'd like to talk about cooperation versus competition.
consider the situation of lions (the males). as I understand it, adult Lions fight with each other for control of a pride. the winning Lion gets to mate with the females, and thus pass on his genes.
if a lion has a genetic issue that makes it prone to something like muscular weakness, it is less likely to pass on his genes.
to me this demonstrates of value of competition in preserving good genes. are you with me so far?
let's rewind the story back to where you were on the island with another person. I'd like to talk about cooperation versus competition.
consider the situation of lions (the males). as I understand it, adult Lions fight with each other for control of a pride. the winning Lion gets to mate with the females, and thus pass on his genes.
if a lion has a genetic issue that makes it prone to something like muscular weakness, it is less likely to pass on his genes.
to me this demonstrates of value of competition in preserving good genes. are you with me so far?
How many times has science been proven wrong over the centuries? Can we even count the number?
Science is not Proof of anything. Proof is final, binary. Math for instance is not science. 2 +2 is 4. This is final, there is no new information in the future or the past that can change this. Science is nothing but evidence. It is neither absolutely true, nor is it absolutely false. There is no such thing as "Scientific Proof" only scientific "theory".
Can science disprove the existence of unicorns? No!! Science can create a theory, apply "evidence" to the theory, but it can't "prove" there was never unicorns.
Can science prove the Big Bang theory? No!! It can prove nothing. Science applies evidence to a "theory" which changes generation after generation, but it will never be able to "Prove" the Big Bang theory.
Is it possible that they will someday be able to go back in history and witness this "theory". Yes, it is possible, although very, very, very, unlikely. It is also possible that I will grow wings and fly to the Virgin Islands, but that too is very, very, very unlikely.
So you are free to place your "faith" in science which by it's very nature will never be able to prove the God of the Bible Doesn't exist.
You seem to believe you are somehow superior for following science which can never "disprove" anything. I will place my Faith in the Word's of an ancient Book which to date has been proven perfectly right in matters of the mind of natural man.
You have your god, and I have mine. I guess we will know at some point******* Or not.
Science is not Proof of anything. Proof is final, binary. Math for instance is not science. 2 +2 is 4. This is final, there is no new information in the future or the past that can change this. Science is nothing but evidence. It is neither absolutely true, nor is it absolutely false. There is no such thing as "Scientific Proof" only scientific "theory".
Can science disprove the existence of unicorns? No!! Science can create a theory, apply "evidence" to the theory, but it can't "prove" there was never unicorns.
Can science prove the Big Bang theory? No!! It can prove nothing. Science applies evidence to a "theory" which changes generation after generation, but it will never be able to "Prove" the Big Bang theory.
Is it possible that they will someday be able to go back in history and witness this "theory". Yes, it is possible, although very, very, very, unlikely. It is also possible that I will grow wings and fly to the Virgin Islands, but that too is very, very, very unlikely.
So you are free to place your "faith" in science which by it's very nature will never be able to prove the God of the Bible Doesn't exist.
You seem to believe you are somehow superior for following science which can never "disprove" anything. I will place my Faith in the Word's of an ancient Book which to date has been proven perfectly right in matters of the mind of natural man.
You have your god, and I have mine. I guess we will know at some point******* Or not.
I was going to ask if you have seen the LORD, but as written, not that any man hath seen the Father, save him who is of God, he hath seen the Father. But after all, if faith comes by hearing and then I don't need to tell you who said the following, ": for they are a very froward generation, children in whom is no faith." Deut 32:20
It is your faith in science and belief that science will move you closer to the truth. And you are welcome to your faith. But many men have lived their entire lives believing a lie because they relied on science for the truth. They died believing as truth what was a lie. This is the risk of all religions.
Personally I am more interested in how the mind works, how thoughts are formed and what drives them. This knowledge will help me become a better person to my wife and children, a better person in society, and as an added bonus, there is talk about a life that comes after this one where time is not a factor. For me personally, I believe this knowledge is greater and more beneficial to me than finding out how old a rock is. But I am a single individual, I am not pushing my thoughts, just sharing them with you.
You can believe that your god may lead to the truth after you are dead and gone, but for the moment many of your beliefs are just unproven theory? How is that different from religion?
How can you know God doesn't exist based on scientific theory? You can't "KNOW" you can only "BELIEVE". You want to believe in your science, you hope your science is right, but if you are honest, your trust in science is based on faith, not proof. You have evidence that points to an outcome you desire, but evidence is not proof.
My point is everybody has faith in something that has not been proven. 2+2=4 is not evidence, it is proof. You have zero proof that God doesn't exist, only evidence, and I have zero "proof" that He does exist, only evidence. You believe your evidence and I believe mine.
You have your god and I have mine. You have your faith and I have mine. You believe in your god where the Bible is concerned and I believe mine where the Bible is concerned.
I'm OK with that. There are many religions in the land now as there has always been.
Some day maybe you will form a religion and take advantage of the tax breaks. You could call it "Scientology".
Woops, than name is taken.
They may have evidence, a new theory, greater technology, but that unicorns never existed has not been "proven". Science finds animals they never knew existed all the time. You can't say, as fact, that unicorns never existed. Unlikely, yes, there is evidence that point to the unlikelihood of their existence. And personally I believe the "evidence". But evidence is not proof, it is evidence. Our belief is not based on "proof" where the unicorn is concerned, it is based on "evidence." In my opinion anyway, I could be wrong (There was that one time in 1962, LOL)
interesting thing about proof.
We all except some things without proof. The only thing we can know without Faith or belief is that our own Consciousness exists.
However, that only works for me, I can only know my own Consciousness exists. I can't know that the consciousness of other people exists.
I could, for example, simply be a brain in a vat being fed information, illusions.
We all except some things without proof. The only thing we can know without Faith or belief is that our own Consciousness exists.
However, that only works for me, I can only know my own Consciousness exists. I can't know that the consciousness of other people exists.
I could, for example, simply be a brain in a vat being fed information, illusions.
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Absolutely,
We only really know our thoughts exist. We can't really "KNOW" anything else. This is why I believe the Word/Law is Spiritual and that all the examples written for us are to be applied to those thoughts. What is love, what is evil, what is righteousness, what is lust, what is covetousness.
5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
We only really know our thoughts exist. We can't really "KNOW" anything else. This is why I believe the Word/Law is Spiritual and that all the examples written for us are to be applied to those thoughts. What is love, what is evil, what is righteousness, what is lust, what is covetousness.
5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
When I was lost I was without knowledge of God.
I knew then that there was an unknown God.
It is stupidity to reason as an atheist.
Why would any man reason that God would be seen scientifically.
Why would any man doubt the existence of God.
Science studies what exists.
And there’s no science of origins.
And there’s no scientific reason for believing things created them self’s.
It’s just the dumbest thing to end up atheistic. Who really has such an utter lack of comprehension of science and the common sense world around us except the people trapped in the philosophical religion of atheism?
This whole thread and not one proof of science proving anything evolved but Renate believes in evolution?
Believes in chance producing evolution of all things not created? That’s simply idiotic.
Do you realize that nothing about “chance” is scientific?
Chance produces no trend whatsoever. Duh.
So the idea that...
space created itself....
Then uncreated matter popped into existence within the space...
Then natural laws created themselves...
Then the laws forced all things in space to obey the newly existent laws...
And the space and everything in space expanded...
And in the expansion objects formed...
Then the objects gathered together in structures...
Then etc etc...
The evolution children’s story is a “just so” creation myth for end time heathens.
No science is involved.
I knew then that there was an unknown God.
It is stupidity to reason as an atheist.
Why would any man reason that God would be seen scientifically.
Why would any man doubt the existence of God.
Science studies what exists.
And there’s no science of origins.
And there’s no scientific reason for believing things created them self’s.
It’s just the dumbest thing to end up atheistic. Who really has such an utter lack of comprehension of science and the common sense world around us except the people trapped in the philosophical religion of atheism?
This whole thread and not one proof of science proving anything evolved but Renate believes in evolution?
Believes in chance producing evolution of all things not created? That’s simply idiotic.
Do you realize that nothing about “chance” is scientific?
Chance produces no trend whatsoever. Duh.
So the idea that...
space created itself....
Then uncreated matter popped into existence within the space...
Then natural laws created themselves...
Then the laws forced all things in space to obey the newly existent laws...
And the space and everything in space expanded...
And in the expansion objects formed...
Then the objects gathered together in structures...
Then etc etc...
The evolution children’s story is a “just so” creation myth for end time heathens.
No science is involved.
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Amen, as in who know the thoughts of ones own hearts other than the person thinking. If we want to know what the other preson id thinking the other person must reveal them . Man can look at the outside but God know our thoughts from afar. When we awake he is still there
But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God. For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God
But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God. For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God
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King James Version:
Deuteronomy 32:20 And he said, I will hide my face from them, I will see what their end shall be: for they are a very froward generation, children in whom is no faith.
The word "faith" in Deut 32:20 is the Hebrew word 'emuwn. The word 'emuwn is used five times in Scripture as follows:
3 times it is rendered “faithful” (Proverbs 13:17; 14:5; 20:6)
1 time it is rendered “truth” (Isaiah 26:2)
1 time it is rendered “faith” (Deuteronomy 32:20)
Interestingly enough, the various translations render the verse as follows:
New International Version
"I will hide my face from them," he said, "and see what their end will be; for they are a perverse generation, children who are unfaithful.
English Standard Version
And he said, ‘I will hide my face from them; I will see what their end will be, for they are a perverse generation, children in whom is no faithfulness.
New American Standard Version
"Then He said, 'I will hide My face from them, I will see what their end shall be; For they are a perverse generation, Sons in whom is no faithfulness.
International Standard Version
So he said: "Let me hide my face from them. I will observe what their end will be, because they are a perverted generation, children within whom there is no loyalty.
I believe the verse states they were not faithful. They did exactly as Rom 1:18 - they suppress the truth in unrighteousness (when truth is presented, they turn from it rather than allow truth to settle in their heart where God can cause faith to grow and strengthen).
Deuteronomy 32:20 And he said, I will hide my face from them, I will see what their end shall be: for they are a very froward generation, children in whom is no faith.
The word "faith" in Deut 32:20 is the Hebrew word 'emuwn. The word 'emuwn is used five times in Scripture as follows:
3 times it is rendered “faithful” (Proverbs 13:17; 14:5; 20:6)
1 time it is rendered “truth” (Isaiah 26:2)
1 time it is rendered “faith” (Deuteronomy 32:20)
Interestingly enough, the various translations render the verse as follows:
New International Version
"I will hide my face from them," he said, "and see what their end will be; for they are a perverse generation, children who are unfaithful.
English Standard Version
And he said, ‘I will hide my face from them; I will see what their end will be, for they are a perverse generation, children in whom is no faithfulness.
New American Standard Version
"Then He said, 'I will hide My face from them, I will see what their end shall be; For they are a perverse generation, Sons in whom is no faithfulness.
International Standard Version
So he said: "Let me hide my face from them. I will observe what their end will be, because they are a perverted generation, children within whom there is no loyalty.
I believe the verse states they were not faithful. They did exactly as Rom 1:18 - they suppress the truth in unrighteousness (when truth is presented, they turn from it rather than allow truth to settle in their heart where God can cause faith to grow and strengthen).
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Science deals with the physical realm only. There is a spiritual realm in existence which cannot be measured by any scientific method developed to date.
Yet you will not agree that there may be some truth to what is being shared with you concerning the spiritual realm ... that you could be wrong concerning spiritual matters.
You would rather tell those people who have knowledge of spiritual matters that you are coming closer to "the truth".
When Studyman encouraged you to not turn your back on God but study the Bible so that you may find Him, you told him that is what you had done and that is what led you to believe "there is not God" [Post #278]. That makes absolutely no sense because God gave us His Word so we could not only find Him, but know Him.
You then have the audacity to tell people who have knowledge of the truth concerning spiritual matters that you wish they would do the same as you.
John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by Me.
Yet you will not agree that there may be some truth to what is being shared with you concerning the spiritual realm ... that you could be wrong concerning spiritual matters.
You would rather tell those people who have knowledge of spiritual matters that you are coming closer to "the truth".
When Studyman encouraged you to not turn your back on God but study the Bible so that you may find Him, you told him that is what you had done and that is what led you to believe "there is not God" [Post #278]. That makes absolutely no sense because God gave us His Word so we could not only find Him, but know Him.
You then have the audacity to tell people who have knowledge of the truth concerning spiritual matters that you wish they would do the same as you.
John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by Me.
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