Is Baptism necessary for Salvation?

[Diakonos]

No.

Do you worship a person?

A person is someone who may be properly addressed with personal pronouns (he/him/she/her/you/I/etc). Scripture uses personal pronouns for God (who is spirit) in both testaments because God is a person, Who has the capacity for personal relationships with other people. A person has intelligence, emotion, and a will. We know the Holy Spirit is a person because He loves us, teaches us, speaks to us, and communes with us. He can be lied to, blasphemed, grieved, etc.

Just as the Holy Spirit is a person without a body, the Son of God was a person even before He was born.

Are you Trinitarian?

The Son of God became a man and remains one today, but He has always been a person from eternity.

 

[peldom10]

Jesus baptizes with the Holy Spirit

John 15:3 ►

New International Version
You are already clean because of the word I have spoken to you.

New Living Translation
You have already been pruned and purified by the message I have given you.

English Standard Version
Already you are clean because of the word that I have spoken to you.

Berean Study Bible
You are already clean because of the word I have spoken to you.

Berean Literal Bible
Already you are clean by reason of the word that I have spoken to you.

King James Bible
Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.

New King James Version
You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you.

New American Standard Bible
You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you.

NASB 1995
“You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you.

NASB 1977
“You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you.

Amplified Bible
You are already clean because of the word which I have given you [the teachings which I have discussed with you].

Christian Standard Bible
You are already clean because of the word I have spoken to you.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
You are already clean because of the word I have spoken to you.

American Standard Version
Already ye are clean because of the word which I have spoken unto you.

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
“From now on you are purged because of the word which I have spoken with you.”

Contemporary English Version
You are already clean because of what I have said to you.

Douay-Rheims Bible
Now you are clean by reason of the word, which I have spoken to you.

Good News Translation
You have been made clean already by the teaching I have given you.

International Standard Version
You are already clean because of what I've spoken to you.

Literal Standard Version
you are already clean, because of the word that I have spoken to you;

New American Bible
You are already pruned because of the word that I spoke to you.

NET Bible
You are clean already because of the word that I have spoken to you.

New Revised Standard Version
You have already been cleansed by the word that I have spoken to you.

New Heart English Bible
You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you.

Weymouth New Testament
Already you are cleansed--through the teaching which I have given you.

World English Bible
You are already pruned clean because of the word which I have spoken to you.

Young's Literal Translation
already ye are clean, because of the word that I have spoken to you;

Titus 3:4-5

Your new age religion slant...doesn't fit.
Baptism is God's commandment;

Baptism is Required



Peter 3: 21.... whereunto even baptism doth also now save us...

John 3:5 .......Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.


Acts 2;38-....Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Acts 22;16... And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

Luke 3;33 KJV .... “And he came into all the country about Jordan, preaching the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins;”

Galations 3:26...... For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

KJV Marrk 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

KJV Mrark 1;4 John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins.

Matthew 3:14... But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me? 15. Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now, for thus it becometh us to fulfil all rightesousness. Then He suffered Him.

KJV Matthew 28:19..... Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:.

Acts 8:12-18: But when they believed Philip as he preached the things concerning the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, both men and women were baptized.

John 3; 22 After these things came Jesus and his disciples into the land of Judaea; and there he tarried with them, and baptized.
23 And John also was baptizing in Aenon near to Salim, because there was much water there: and they came, and were baptized.

Quote from Billy Graham that is note worthy;
....Also, to clarify I did not say remission of sin takes place at repentance. Scripture makes it clear that it occurs upon obedience to water baptism in the name of the Lord Jesus. Each is a step of faith, along with receiving the Holy Ghost, in the process of one's spiritual rebirth

.."Paul explains the doctrinal significance of what occurs when one is baptized.His explanation is found in his letter to those who had already been obedient to the command.



======================

 

[peldom10]

timed out.... 622 cont'd

If there is no water baptism anywhere then why do we find these passages:
Mark 1: 4 And so John the Baptist appeared in the wilderness, preaching a baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins. 5 The whole Judean countryside and all the people of Jerusalem went out to him. Confessing their sins, they were baptized by him in the Jordan River.
Luke 3:16 John answered them all, “I baptize you with water. But one who is more powerful than I will come, the straps of whose sandals I am not worthy to untie. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.
Matthew 3:13 Then Jesus came from Galilee to the Jordan to be baptized by John. 14 But John tried to deter him, saying, “I need to be baptized by you, and do you come to me?" 15 Jesus replied, “Let it be so now; it is proper for us to do this to fulfill all righteousness.” Then John consented. 16 As soon as Jesus was baptized, he went up out of the water. At that moment heaven was opened, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and alighting on him. 17 And a voice from heaven said, “This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased.”
Acts 8:36 As they traveled along the road, they came to some water and the eunuch said, “Look, here is water. What can stand in the way of my being baptized? ” 38 And he gave orders to stop the chariot. Then both Philip and the eunuch went down into the water and Philip baptized him.
Acts 16: 31 They replied, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved—you and your household.” 32 Then they spoke the word of the Lord to him and to all the others in his house. 33 At that hour of the night the jailer took them and washed their wounds; then immediately he and all his household were baptized.
Acts 22:16 And now what are you waiting for? Get up, be baptized and wash your sins away, calling on his name.’

From these we learn:
1.John's baptism was with water in which repentant received forgiveness. Jesus submitted himself to this baptism to accomplish all righteousness. His baptism blesses and gives His benefits to out baptism.
2.Those who heard Jesus' words to make disciples "baptizing them" in the name of our Triune God clearly understood that meant connecting Jesus Words with water. The other passages where people were baptized included water.
3.The Holy Spirit uses means to connect the blessings Jesus won to the won receiving them. In Baptism it is Water.
Acts 2: 38 Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 The promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off—for all whom the Lord our God will call.” 40 With many other words he warned them; and he pleaded with them, “Save yourselves from this corrupt generation.”
41 Those who accepted his message were baptized, and about three thousand were added to their number that day.

 

[Magenta]

Your new age religion slant...doesn't fit.

That was directly copied from multiple Bible translations. That it does not fit your theology does not surprise me.

Because you reject, deny, and disagree with quite a lot of Scripture.

Only a radical leftist would deny scriptures.

 

[Dirtman]

The Bible does not say whether the thief on the cross was baptized or not. To say he was not is an assumption.

One verse says all the region of Judea and all of Jerusalem were going out to him (John the
Baptist) and were being baptized by him in the Jordan river. He could have been one of them.

Not the guy who kept saying the thief on the cross the narrator. Who elaborates on the subject

 

[Magenta]

Not the guy who kept saying the thief on the cross the narrator. Who elaborates on the subject

It is an assumption to say he was not baptized regardless who says it. And it is said quite a bit.

 

[Bluesproverb]

Your new age religion slant...doesn't fit.
Baptism is God's commandment;

Baptism is Required



Peter 3: 21.... whereunto even baptism doth also now save us...

John 3:5 .......Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.


Acts 2;38-....Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Acts 22;16... And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

Luke 3;33 KJV .... “And he came into all the country about Jordan, preaching the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins;”

Galations 3:26...... For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

KJV Marrk 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

KJV Mrark 1;4 John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins.

Matthew 3:14... But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me? 15. Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now, for thus it becometh us to fulfil all rightesousness. Then He suffered Him.

KJV Matthew 28:19..... Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:.

Acts 8:12-18: But when they believed Philip as he preached the things concerning the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, both men and women were baptized.

John 3; 22 After these things came Jesus and his disciples into the land of Judaea; and there he tarried with them, and baptized.
23 And John also was baptizing in Aenon near to Salim, because there was much water there: and they came, and were baptized.

Quote from Billy Graham that is note worthy;
....Also, to clarify I did not say remission of sin takes place at repentance. Scripture makes it clear that it occurs upon obedience to water baptism in the name of the Lord Jesus. Each is a step of faith, along with receiving the Holy Ghost, in the process of one's spiritual rebirth

.."Paul explains the doctrinal significance of what occurs when one is baptized.His explanation is found in his letter to those who had already been obedient to the command.



======================

A person who repents, accepts Christ, and is saved by God's free gift of faith and salvation isn't actually saved unless or until they're also baptized?

 

[peldom10]

A person who repents, accepts Christ, and is saved by God's free gift of faith and salvation isn't actually saved unless or until they're also baptized?[/QUOTE



You mean ...born again......by .....God's grace .....established through the sacrifice by Christ on the cross.

We must be baptized after repentance to be ......born again.....
We must be...... born again..... and live a righteous life...."until the end" .....in order for God to award us...saved..... status upon judgment.

 

[Dirtman]

It is an assumption to say he was not baptized regardless who says it. And it is said quite a bit.

Right.
And while that is often the go to. Its not the point of the video.
The point of the video is the narrative offered by the narrator. If ya watch the other video there isnt the satirical aside. He simply explains. If that makes it better.

 

[peldom10]

Right.
And while that is often the go to. Its not the point of the video.
The point of the video is the narrative offered by the narrator. If ya watch the other video there isnt the satirical aside. He simply explains. If that makes it better.

why be guided by man's video.
Rely on the Bible...1611 edition KJV.

 

[Bluesproverb]

It is an assumption to say he was not baptized regardless who says it. And it is said quite a bit.

It's equally an assumption to claim he was baptized.

The thief knew who Jesus was, as we know because he said as much while hanging on the cross beside him.

However, if he would have been baptized it would mean the thief wouldn't have had to tell Jesus he knew who he was. Jesus would have known him.
The thief also wouldn't have asked Jesus to remember him when Jesus came into his kingdom.

And Jesus wouldn't have then said to the thief, today you will be with me in paradise.

According to some, the thief wasn't baptized and that means he wasn't really saved.

Some will balk at that though they insist that part about baptism remains true for everyone else.

However, when Jesus said we are saved by faith through God's grace, and made no condition requisite for baptism for that to be so, their argument is contrary to the facts. And reason.

If Baptism is mandatory, everyone who died and thought they were saved but weren't baptized are damned to death.

If they compromise Jesus, the living water, and his teaching that we are saved by faith by insisting it's not so unless we're baptized, Jesus can't deny himself. He can't contradict himself if he insisted we're not saved until we're also baptized. Which means he couldn't make that promise to the thief.

Jesus didn't make baptism mandatory. Others do.

 

[Dirtman]

why be guided by man's video.
Rely on the Bible...1611 edition KJV.

Do ypu go to church amd have a pastor And listen to him teach of coarse you do. You listen to a mans teaching which is why you are hung up on kjv1611. Lol. Using that version isnt even in scripture. Irony of ironies.

 

[Bluesproverb]

You mean ...born again......by .....God's grace .....established through the sacrifice by Christ on the cross.

We must be baptized after repentance to be ......born again.....
We must be...... born again..... and live a righteous life...."until the end" .....in order for God to award us...saved..... status upon judgment.

I wish you the best.

 

[Magenta]

It's equally an assumption to claim he was baptized.

Who has done that?

However, if he would have been baptized it would mean the thief wouldn't have had to tell Jesus he knew who he was. Jesus would have known him.
The thief also wouldn't have asked Jesus to remember him when Jesus came into his kingdom.

These are all logical fallacies and assumptions as well.

According to some, the thief wasn't baptized and that means he wasn't really saved.

It's an assumption to say he was not baptized.

 

[Runningman]

A person who repents, accepts Christ, and is saved by God's free gift of faith and salvation isn't actually saved unless or until they're also baptized?

Salvation is free based on our faith. If faith were a free gift and God wants no one to perish then everyone would have faith. These simple litmus tests are all that are required to rightly divide the word of truth.

 

[Bluesproverb]

Who has done that?

These are all logical fallacies and assumptions as well.

It's an assumption to say he was not baptized.

😆 You just answered your first question.

 

[Runningman]

It's equally an assumption to claim he was baptized.

The thief knew who Jesus was, as we know because he said as much while hanging on the cross beside him.

However, if he would have been baptized it would mean the thief wouldn't have had to tell Jesus he knew who he was. Jesus would have known him.
The thief also wouldn't have asked Jesus to remember him when Jesus came into his kingdom.

And Jesus wouldn't have then said to the thief, today you will be with me in paradise.

According to some, the thief wasn't baptized and that means he wasn't really saved.

Some will balk at that though they insist that part about baptism remains true for everyone else.

However, when Jesus said we are saved by faith through God's grace, and made no condition requisite for baptism for that to be so, their argument is contrary to the facts. And reason.

If Baptism is mandatory, everyone who died and thought they were saved but weren't baptized are damned to death.

If they compromise Jesus, the living water, and his teaching that we are saved by faith by insisting it's not so unless we're baptized, Jesus can't deny himself. He can't contradict himself if he insisted we're not saved until we're also baptized. Which means he couldn't make that promise to the thief.

Jesus didn't make baptism mandatory. Others do.

Jesus had all of His disciples water baptized and commanded it as a requirement in the great commission. Roll the dice and minimize, ignore it, and/or approve of others who do the same at your own risk. Personally I wouldn’t spend too much time trying to argue against the New Testament model of Jesus of Nazareth’s church.

John 4:1
1When therefore the Lord knew how the Pharisees had heard that Jesus made and baptized more disciples than John,

Mark 16:16
16He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

Matthew 28:19
19Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

 

[Magenta]

😆 You just answered your first question.

Saying it is an assumption to claim he was not baptized is not affirming
that he was, despite your injudicious inference to the contrary.

 

[Wansvic]

The thief on the cross. LOL. Why do people assume and assert he wasn't baptized? We do not know that.

The thief died under the OT. Whereas water baptism in the name of the Lord Jesus for remission of one's sin is commanded of those living in the NT. The NT command was instituted on the Day of Pentecost in association with Jesus' death, burial and resurrection.

Also, as Paul pointed out, it is those who have been baptized into Jesus who have been buried with Him into His death. And those who have been planted together in the likeness of His death (through baptism) shall also be in the likeness of his resurrection. (Rom 6:3-6)

 

[Dirtman]

Who has done that?

These are all logical fallacies and assumptions as well.

It's an assumption to say he was not baptized.

You are indeed correct. We can not know his baptismal status. John the Baptist was baptizing folks and the disciples of Jesus were also baptizing people prior to the event of the cross. He is irrelevant to the conversation. Ironically those who oppose baptismal regeneration jump right to this event as proof; which proves nothing at all. Because as you said its all assumptions.