Is America the Babylon of scripture? NO!

[selahsays]

I also believe that the first beast rising up out of the sea mentioned in Revelation 13 refers to many nations (a one-world system?). The second beast coming up out of the earth is Satan.

And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy. And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority. And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast. And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him? And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon. And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed. And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,

- Revelation 13:1-4,11-13 (KJV)

 

[posthuman]

You avoided the evidence I gave in my post so that needs to be addressed first before we move to a counterpoint.

i do not pretend to have expertise in eschatology. I put the verse because if I accept what you say about the second beast - and indeed it is the one with the number, which is the number of 'a man' - then what do I do with the references in Revelation 17 that seem to indicate the first beast is the Antichrist?

people have discussed these things for centuries - referring to the two as the Antichrist and the false prophet isn't new, not my own ideas, but things I read and repeated.

i appreciate your input; I'm not disagreeing with any of it ((again, no expertise here)), just learning from it.

 

[ewq1938]

i do not pretend to have expertise in eschatology. I put the verse because if I accept what you say about the second beast - and indeed it is the one with the number, which is the number of 'a man' - then what do I do with the references in Revelation 17 that seem to indicate the first beast is the Antichrist?

The first beast is never identified as the AC. It's a massive kingdom, not a person. Only the FP is a person. No biblical writer ever mentions the AC and some second person in charge under him. Why does Rev say the FP performs miracles to deceive and Paul's man of sin does the same exact things? Obviously it's the same person and Paul never said the man of sin has a side kick.


Rev 13:13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,
Rev 13:14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.

wonders:

G4592
se¯meion
say-mi'-on
Neuter of a presumed derivative of the base of G4591; an indication, especially ceremonially or supernaturally: - miracle, sign, token, wonder.
Total KJV occurrences: 77

deceived:

G4105
planao¯
plan-ah'-o
From G4106; to (properly cause to) roam (from safety, truth, or virtue): - go astray, deceive, err, seduce, wander, be out of the way.
Total KJV occurrences: 39

miracles:

G4592
s?µe????
se¯meion
say-mi'-on
Neuter of a presumed derivative of the base of G4591; an indication, especially ceremonially or supernaturally: - miracle, sign, token, wonder.
Total KJV occurrences: 77


Revelation 19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received
the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

Here we read of the second beast, who performs miracles in the sight of the first beast and performing those miracles in order to deceive the people!



Paul's Antichrist was called the man of sin and he is described as doing the same things for the same reason as the false prophet:

2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
2Th 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
2Th 2:5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
2Th 2:6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
2Th 2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
2Th 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
2Th 2:9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders

lying:

G5579
pseudos
psyoo'-dos
From G5574; a falsehood: - lie, lying.
Total KJV occurrences: 9

wonders:

G5059
teras
Thayer Definition:
1) a prodigy, portent
2) miracle: performed by any one
Part of Speech: noun neuter
A Related Word by Thayer’s/Strong’s Number: of uncertain affinity
Citing in TDNT: 8:113, 1170



"Lying wonders" by the man of sin is the same as "deceiving miracles" by the false prophet.

The false prophet and the man of sin are the same person, the Antichrist.

 

[Blade]

In other words you believe "America is not Babylon" and here's why.