Interpreting the Parable of the Rich Man and Lazarus: It's Really Good News!

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

TheLearner

Well-known member
Jan 14, 2019
8,221
1,584
113
68
Brighton, MI
Heb 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

God gave the Sabbath long before the law was given in Exodus. In the new covenant God will write the law on our hearts and in our minds..

Us = all that want to avoid sin.

Rom 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
Rom 7:8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.
Rom 7:12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
Rom 7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

You can keep saying it is only for the Jews but that is just a way of stopping sin from being known or revealed. How happy is your flesh when the law that reveals sin does not apply to you therefore does not convict you.

Rom 7:9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.

If your willing = Us = Gods people at the end

Rev 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

By grace i have peace that my sins are forgiven but that does not mean i continue in sin.
Hi Brother, friend Matthew was writting to Jewish People of Israel.

"
Purpose and Audience
It is quite obvious and widely accepted that Matthew was written to the Jews. For one, he focuses on the fulfillment of the Old Testament, even quoting from it sixty-two times, which is more than any other Gospel writer. Secondly it is interesting that Matthew does not explain Jewish culture like the other evangelists (cf. Mark 7:3, John 19:40), which also adds to the argument that he is writing to Jews. Matthew uses the phrase, "kingdom of heaven," (the only author, in fact, to use this phrase) which can be considered as a "reverential Jewish expression" [12]-a term appropriate to a Jewish audience. His purpose in writing to the Jews was to show them that Jesus of Nazareth was the expected messiah and both his genealogy and his resurrection were legitimate proofs of this.

Themes
"
https://www.blueletterbible.org/study/intros/matthew.cfm
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
12,399
6,738
113
Also, don't take the sabbeth texts out of context.
they try to extract the Law from the Covenant. that is the main trick they try to pull.

the 2nd is to use obscure translations to claim that Sabbath keeping is commanded in the N.T. when it clearly is not.
 

TheLearner

Well-known member
Jan 14, 2019
8,221
1,584
113
68
Brighton, MI
God gave the Sabbath at creation. Gen 2.
From my Jewish background, I know that G_d the Seventh day made it special. It was not given to humans as a commandment at that time. There is no record in Genesis that people keep the Seventh day as a Sabbath.


  1. Genesis 2:2
    And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.
    In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
  2. Genesis 2:3
    And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.
    In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
  3. Genesis 8:4
    And the ark rested in the seventh month, on the seventeenth day of the month, upon the mountains of Ararat.
  4. Genesis 22:5
    And Abraham said unto his young men, Abide ye here with the ass; and I and the lad will go yonder and worship, and come again to you.
    In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
  5. Genesis 24:26
    And the man bowed down his head, and worshipped the Lord.
    In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
  6. Genesis 24:48
    And I bowed down my head, and worshipped the Lord, and blessed the Lord God of my master Abraham, which had led me in the right way to take my master's brother's daughter unto his son.
    In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
  7. Genesis 24:52
    And it came to pass, that, when Abraham's servant heard their words, he worshipped the Lord, bowing himself to the earth.
    In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
  8. Genesis 31:54
    Then Jacob offered sacrifice upon the mount, and called his brethren to eat bread: and they did eat bread, and tarried all night in the mount.
    In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
  9. Genesis 46:1
    And Israel took his journey with all that he had, and came to Beersheba, and offered sacrifices unto the God of his father Isaac.
    In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations

Genesis 4:1-17 Does not say this happened on the Seventh day. One has to read the day into the text.
King James Version
4 And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from the Lord.

2 And she again bare his brother Abel. And Abel was a keeper of sheep, but Cain was a tiller of the ground.

3 And in process of time it came to pass, that Cain brought of the fruit of the ground an offering unto the Lord.

4 And Abel, he also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof. And the Lord had respect unto Abel and to his offering:


5 But unto Cain and to his offering he had not respect. And Cain was very wroth, and his countenance fell.

6 And the Lord said unto Cain, Why art thou wroth? and why is thy countenance fallen?

7 If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.

8 And Cain talked with Abel his brother: and it came to pass, when they were in the field, that Cain rose up against Abel his brother, and slew him.

9 And the Lord said unto Cain, Where is Abel thy brother? And he said, I know not: Am I my brother's keeper?

10 And he said, What hast thou done? the voice of thy brother's blood crieth unto me from the ground.

11 And now art thou cursed from the earth, which hath opened her mouth to receive thy brother's blood from thy hand;

12 When thou tillest the ground, it shall not henceforth yield unto thee her strength; a fugitive and a vagabond shalt thou be in the earth.

13 And Cain said unto the Lord, My punishment is greater than I can bear.

14 Behold, thou hast driven me out this day from the face of the earth; and from thy face shall I be hid; and I shall be a fugitive and a vagabond in the earth; and it shall come to pass, that every one that findeth me shall slay me.

15 And the Lord said unto him, Therefore whosoever slayeth Cain, vengeance shall be taken on him sevenfold. And the Lord set a mark upon Cain, lest any finding him should kill him.

16 And Cain went out from the presence of the Lord, and dwelt in the land of Nod, on the east of Eden.

17 And Cain knew his wife; and she conceived, and bare Enoch: and he builded a city, and called the name of the city, after the name of his son, Enoch.



1645824588904.jpeg


Genesis 2
King James Version
2 Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.

2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.

3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

4 These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the Lord God made the earth and the heavens,

5 And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew: for the Lord God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and there was not a man to till the ground.

Genesis 2:1-5
Easy-to-Read Version
The Seventh Day—Rest
2 So the earth, the sky, and everything in them were finished. 2 God finished the work he was doing, so on the seventh day he rested from his work. 3 God blessed the seventh day and made it a holy day. He made it special because on that day he rested from all the work he did while creating the world.

The First Man and the Garden of Eden
4 This is the story about the creation of the sky and the earth. This is what happened when the Lord God made the earth and the sky. 5 This was before there were plants on the earth. Nothing was growing in the fields because the Lord God had not yet made it rain on the earth, and there was no one to care for the plants.
 

TheLearner

Well-known member
Jan 14, 2019
8,221
1,584
113
68
Brighton, MI
Do we have to keep "Thou shalt have no other gods before Me" or can we throw it out with the Sabbath commandment?
Every Christian knows you can not serve two masters. We need no commandment because Jesus is our only Lord and Savior.

aside: An Alien from Space returned to his spaceship. His commander asked, "did you capture any humans for us to study how they think?" He answered, "No, I got something better, their main god." The Commander said, "show him to me." The god looks like this,
 

TheLearner

Well-known member
Jan 14, 2019
8,221
1,584
113
68
Brighton, MI
So spiritually dead but with physical life. When thrown into lake of fire and physical life is also dead, that is twice dead, no life spiritually or physically. Dead dead.
What kind of death did Adam and Eve experience, since they did not physically die that day?

James 2:26 defines death as seperation, not ceasing to exist.

If Jesus ceased to exist when he died, we would not be here today.
 

TheLearner

Well-known member
Jan 14, 2019
8,221
1,584
113
68
Brighton, MI
.

Why for that matter would we have to love God (Deut 6:5) or neigbour (Leviticus 19:17-18)?
When we are born again we recieve, the fruit of the Spirit and Agape. No, commandment is needed since we have a new nature added to our old.

Romans 6:15
What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.

Romans 7:6
But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

Romans 8:4
That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Romans 13:8
Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
 

TheLearner

Well-known member
Jan 14, 2019
8,221
1,584
113
68
Brighton, MI
1 Corinthians 6:12
All things are lawful unto me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any.

Galatians 2:21
I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

Galatians 3:12
And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.

Galatians 5:18
But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

Galatians 4

We live under the Holy Spirit and agape.
 
Feb 7, 2022
646
75
28
Wait, everyone says these are "Two new commandments Jesus gave us to replace the Ten"....you mean to tell me Moses was teaching them way back 1,500 years before?

Well then...that must mean the Two aren't "new" in the sense of "replacement", but "new concepts" for those attempting to derive salvation by letter of the law, intended to teach them that the gift of salvation leads to keeping the Spirit of the law, not simply the Letter.

So, if it's true that "On these Two Commandments hang all the law and the prophets", why do Christians everywhere fight harder to take down the Ten Commandments than leftist Democrats fight to take down Confederate statues?
What gets me, is the silly argument that the Ten Commandments (Exo. 20:1-17), or even just the 4th commandment (Exo. 20:8-11) was only for "the Jews".

1. Moses wasn't a 'Jew', he was an Israelite, and of Levi.

2. Moses' wife, Zipporah, wasn't an Israelite at all, or a Jew, she was of Midian.

3. The "mixed multitude" that came out of Egypt, with many "strangers" weren't Hebrews, Israelites or Jews.

Etc.

If they use the same scales of balance in judgment for Deuteronomy 5 (repeating Exo. 20 by Moses), then Deuteronomy 6:5 (Love God, context, Deut 5 Ten Commandments) and Leviticus 19:17-18 (Love Neighbour) is also only for the Jews, and they might as well throw that out (which they do in practice) by their own standard, but they have unevenly weighted scales.

Again, who was Jesus talking to when He said Love God and Neighbor and what was He citing from in OT (written in the law)?

Same for Paul.

They don't think from beginning of their theology to it's logical progressive conclusion and self refuting ending. They do not reason cause to effect, but only live in the seemingly justifiable now, and present out of context text, and when exposed move to the next and then eventually circle back to their sandy a priori.
 

TheLearner

Well-known member
Jan 14, 2019
8,221
1,584
113
68
Brighton, MI
Wait, everyone says these are "Two new commandments Jesus gave us to replace the Ten"....you mean to tell me Moses was teaching them way back 1,500 years before?

Well then...that must mean the Two aren't "new" in the sense of "replacement", but "new concepts" for those attempting to derive salvation by letter of the law, intended to teach them that the gift of salvation leads to keeping the Spirit of the law, not simply the Letter.

So, if it's true that "On these Two Commandments hang all the law and the prophets", why do Christians everywhere fight harder to take down the Ten Commandments than leftist Democrats fight to take down Confederate statues?
Does not say those two parts given to Israel --- the texts do not say those are commandments. Jesus combined those two principles to apply to the new testament, covenant.

Deuteronomy 6
Easy-to-Read Version
Always Love and Obey God
6 “These are the commands, the laws, and the rules that the Lord your God told me to teach you. Obey these laws in the land that you are entering to live in. 2 You and your descendants must respect the Lord your God as long as you live. You must obey all his laws and commands that I give you. If you do this, you will have a long life in that new land. 3 Israelites, listen carefully and obey these laws. Then everything will be fine with you. You will have many children, and you will get the land filled with many good things[a]—just as the Lord, the God of your ancestors, promised.

4 “Listen, people of Israel! The Lord is our God. The Lord is the only God. 5 You must love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your strength. 6 Always remember these commands that I give you today. 7 Be sure to teach them to your children. Talk about these commands when you sit in your house and when you walk on the road. Talk about them when you lie down and when you get up. 8 Tie them on your hands and wear them on your foreheads to help you remember my teachings. 9 Write them on the doorposts of your houses and on your gates.

10 “The Lord your God made a promise to your ancestors, Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. He promised to give you this land, and he will give it to you. He will give you great and rich cities that you did not build. 11 He will give you houses full of good things that you did not put there. He will give you wells that you did not dig. He will give you vineyards and olive trees that you did not plant, and you will have plenty to eat.

12 “But be careful! Don’t forget the Lord. You were slaves in Egypt, but he brought you out of the land of Egypt.

Luke 10:27
The man answered, “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart, all your soul, all your strength, and all your mind.’ Also, ‘Love your neighbor the same as you love yourself.’”

Leviticus 19:18
Forget about the wrong things people do to you. Don’t try to get even. Love your neighbor as yourself. I am the Lord.
 

TheLearner

Well-known member
Jan 14, 2019
8,221
1,584
113
68
Brighton, MI
What gets me, is the silly argument that the Ten Commandments (Exo. 20:1-17), or even just the 4th commandment (Exo. 20:8-11) was only for "the Jews".

1. Moses wasn't a 'Jew', he was an Israelite, and of Levi.

2. Moses' wife, Zipporah, wasn't an Israelite at all, or a Jew, she was of Midian.

3. The "mixed multitude" that came out of Egypt, with many "strangers" weren't Hebrews, Israelites or Jews.

Etc.

If they use the same scales of balance in judgment for Deuteronomy 5 (repeating Exo. 20 by Moses), then Deuteronomy 6:5 (Love God, context, Deut 5 Ten Commandments) and Leviticus 19:17-18 (Love Neighbour) is also only for the Jews, and they might as well throw that out (which they do in practice) by their own standard, but they have unevenly weighted scales.

Again, who was Jesus talking to when He said Love God and Neighbor and what was He citing from in OT (written in the law)?

Same for Paul.

They don't think from beginning of their theology to it's logical progressive conclusion and self refuting ending. They do not reason cause to effect, but only live in the seemingly justifiable now, and present out of context text, and when exposed move to the next and then eventually circle back to their sandy a priori.
I already proved that the big ten are for Israel.
 

TheLearner

Well-known member
Jan 14, 2019
8,221
1,584
113
68
Brighton, MI
Catechism For Jewish Children
By Isaac Leeser.​

Appendix I
The Ceremonial Law

1. What is the Ceremonial Law?
The duties which the law of God as revealed through Moses demands of us, the Israelites, in particular, as the professors of its religion.
2. Upon what is this Law founded?
Upon the history of the Mosaic Religion, and of the people of Israel before and since the promulgation of the Ten Commandments from Sinai.
3. What is the object of the ceremonies?
The constant observance of the ceremonies is intended to remind us perpetually of the events upon which they are founded, and to cause their being handed over to our children after us, to the latest generations.
"Remember his miracles that He hath done, his wonders and the Judgments of his mouth. O ye seed of Israel, his servants; the children of Jacob, his chosen people. He is the Lord our God; his judgments are in all the earth. Remember ye his covenant for ever; the word which He commanded to a thousand generations. Which He covenanted with Abraham, and likewise his oath unto Isaac. And he confirmed the same to Jacob for a statute, to Israel for an everlasting covenant." Ps. cv. 5-10.
4. Which are the principal events of which the Ceremonial Law is to remind us?
The following three:
First, The Exodus, or removal, of our forefathers from Egypt.
Second, The Divine Revelation, and the promulgation of the Law on Sinai.

Third, The destruction of the temple at Jerusalem, and of the kingdom of Israel.
5. What observances are to remind us of the Exodus?
First, The Sabbath day, regarded as the sign of the covenant of the manifestation of God's power in Egypt.
"And remember that thou were a servant in the land of Egypt, and that the Lord thy God brought thee out thence, through a mighty hand, and by an outstretched arm: therefore the Lord thy God commanded thee to keep the Sabbath day." Deut. v. 15.
Second, Several others of the festivals.

...

18. How is the Day of Atonement to be observed?
On the tenth day of the seventh month is the great day of humiliation and prayer before the Lord. During the whole of its continuance, from sunset of the ninth till after the stars have appeared on the tenth, we shall abstain from food and drink, and all earthly enjoyments; and perform no manner of labor, just as on the weekly Sabbath. We shall seriously think over our past conduct, and offer up to God a contrite spirit for our manifold transgressions; if we have offended our neighbor we should satisfy him, before we ask forgiveness of the Lord; and it is for such repentance that we are promised a remission of sin, and an atonement for our iniquities.
"And this shall be a statute for ever unto you, that in the seventh month, on the tenth day of the month, ye shall fast, and do no work at all.--And this shall be an everlasting statute unto you, to make an atonement for the children of Israel, for all their sins, once a year." Lev. xvi. 29-34.
http://www.jewish-history.com/catechism/ceremonial.html
 

TheLearner

Well-known member
Jan 14, 2019
8,221
1,584
113
68
Brighton, MI
http://www.jewish-history.com/catechism/catech06.htm
Chapter VII.
The Ten Commandments
1. What are the Ten Commandments?
Those celebrated commandments which God the Lord communicated himself to the people of Israel on Mount Sinai,
without the intervention of a prophet; which means that the people heard them from God himself, and not from Moses, who received the other laws first from the Lord, and afterwards told them to the people.
"And the Lord spoke with you out of the midst of the fire; you heard the voice of words, but ye saw no similitude, only ye heard a voice. And He declared unto you his covenant, which He commanded you to perform, the Ten commandments, and He wrote them upon two tables of stone." Deut. 4:12, 13.
2. In what light would you regard these Ten Commandments?
The Ten Commandments are the everlasting fundamental principles of the divine law, and are to be observed during all times, and throughout every generation. We may call them the Divine Constitution, according to which the other statutes have been enacted; and every other commandment has reference to one of the other of them, whether it regards the worship of the Lord, or our intercourse with other men.
"The Lord our God made with us a covenant on Horeb. Not with our forefathers made the Lord this covenant, but with ourselves, who are here all alive this day. Face to face the Lord spoke with you on the mount, from the midst of the fire. I stood between the Lord and you at that time, to tell unto you the word of the Lord, for ye were afraid of the fire, and ye ascended not the mount." Ibid. 5:2-5.

...


33. What are the words of the FOURTH commandment?
"Remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy; six days thou shalt labor, and do all thy work; but the seventh day is the Sabbath in honor of the Lord thy God: on it thou shalt not do any work, neither thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy man-servant, nor thy maid-servant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates. For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day; therefore, the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it."
34. What are we taught by this precept?
We should out of love and reverence to the Lord regard as holy that day which He has set apart as devoted to his service, and do nothing to profane it. God is the Master of our labor, the Possessor of our bodies, and, as such, He demands of us that we, his servants, should cease from labor one day in seven, and this on the last day of that period which He instituted as the week from the first creation of man upon the earth.
"Ye shall keep my Sabbaths, and reverence my sanctuary: I am the Lord." Lev. xxvi. 2.
"And say unto them, Hear ye the word of the Lord, ye kings of Judah, and all Judah, and all the inhabitants of Jerusalem, that enter in by these gates: Thus saith the Lord, Take heed to yourselves and carry no burden on the Sabbath day; nor bring it in by the gates of Jerusalem; neither carry forth a burden out of your houses on the Sabbath day, neither do ye any work, but hallow ye the Sabbath day, as I commanded your fathers." Jer. 17: 20-22.
35. What is the meaning and object of the Sabbath?
The Sabbath is a sign of the covenant between us and our Creator
, by which we are to be sanctified, and acknowledge that we are sincerely convinced of our subjection to his will.
"And the Lord spoke unto Moses, saying, Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my Sabbaths ye shall keep; for it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations, that ye may know that I am the Lord who sanctify you.--And the children of Israel shall keep the Sabbath, observing the Sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant. It is a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever; for in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day He rested." Exod. 31: 12-17.
36. How shall we sanctify the Sabbath?

We shall sanctify the Sabbath by abstaining from labor and business, and spend it in devotional exercises and contemplating the word and works of God.
"Ye shall keep the Sabbath, for it is holy unto you; every one that defileth it shall surely be put to death; for whosoever doth any work thereon, that soul shall be cut off from among his people." Exod. 31:14.

http://www.jewish-history.com/catechism/catech07.htm

It is clear that the Sabbath was only given to Isreal. We Gentiles were not slaves in Egypt.
 
Feb 7, 2022
646
75
28
Easily seen that those who reject our message, on any doctrine, are simply varying expounders of antinomianism. Oh they think they see issue with state of the dead, hellfire, judgment, sabbath, covenants, etc, but since they are all connected to the Gospel and thus God's mercy and justice, being love, simply are waging war against the very eternal law of heaven, and the argument is always reduced to this point.
 

TheLearner

Well-known member
Jan 14, 2019
8,221
1,584
113
68
Brighton, MI
Easily seen that those who reject our message, on any doctrine, are simply varying expounders of antinomianism. Oh they think they see issue with state of the dead, hellfire, judgment, sabbath, covenants, etc, but since they are all connected to the Gospel and thus God's mercy and justice, being love, simply are waging war against the very eternal law of heaven, and the argument is always reduced to this point.
The law was still not given to Gentiles. I was quoting from http://www.jewish-history.com/catechism/ceremonial.html
They know their own Religion. After all, the old covenant was given to them, not to US.
 

TheLearner

Well-known member
Jan 14, 2019
8,221
1,584
113
68
Brighton, MI
Antinomianism comes from the Greek meaning lawless. In Christian theology it is a pejorative term for the teaching that Christians are under no obligation to obey the laws of ethics or morality. Few, if any, would explicitly call themselves "antinomian," hence, it is usually a charge leveled by one group against an opposing group.

Antinomianism may be viewed as the polar opposite of legalism, the notion that obedience to a code of religious law is necessary for salvation. In this sense, both antinomianism and legalism are considered errant extremes.

Antinomianism in the New Testament
Paul, in his letters, mentions several times that we are saved by the unearned grace of God, not by our own good works, "lest anyone should boast." He used the term freedom in Christ, for example Galatians 2:4, and it is clear that some understood this to mean lawlessness, for example Acts 21:21 records James explaining his situation to Paul:

"...they have been told about you that you teach all the Jews who are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, telling them not to circumcise their children or walk according to our customs." The early history of Christianity records conflict between "Pauline Christianity" and the Jerusalem Church led by James the Just, Simon Peter, and John, the so-called "Jewish Christians." In Galatians 2:14, part of the "Incident at Antioch," Paul publicly accused Peter of judaizing, perhaps legalism. He goes on to say that sins remain sins, and condemns by several examples the kind of behaviour that the church should not tolerate. This confusion is most likely the cause of the statement in 2 Peter 3.16 that some of Paul's Letters are hard to understand, "which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other Scriptures" (2 Peter 3:16b).

The Epistle of James, in contrast, states that our good works justify before men our faith after salvation and we are to obey the Law of God, that faith without works is death (2:14-26).

According to the Sermon on the Mount, Jesus taught:

"Thus you will recognize them by their fruits. Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. On that day many will say to me, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?' And then will I declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.'" Matthew 7:20-23 According to the Sermon on the Plain, Jesus taught:

"The good person out of the good treasure of his heart produces good, and the evil person out of his evil treasure produces evil, for out of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaks. Why do you call me 'Lord, Lord,' and not do what I tell you?" Luke 6:45-46

Antinomianism among Christians
In the case of Christianity, the controversy arises out of the doctrine of grace, the forgiveness of sins and atonement by faith in Jesus Christ. If God forgives sins, what exactly is the disadvantage in sinning, or the reward of obedience?

There are several issues that are addressed by the charge of antinomianism. The charge may represent the fear that a given theological position does not lead to the edification of the believer or assist him in leading a regenerate life. Doctrines that tend to erode the authority of the church and its right to prescribe religious practices for the faithful are often condemned as antinomian. The charge is also brought against those whose teachings are perceived as hostile to government and established authority.

The first people accused of antinomianism were found, apparently, in Gnosticism; various aberrant and licentious acts were ascribed to these by their orthodox enemies; we have few independent records of their actual teachings. In the Book of Revelation 2:6-15, the New Testament speaks of Nicolaitans, who are traditionally identified with a Gnostic sect, in terms that suggest the charge of antinomianism might be appropriate.

Roman Catholicism tends to charge Protestantism with antinomianism, based in part on the distinctively Protestant doctrine of sola fide, salvation by faith alone, and the typical Protestant rejection of the elaborate sacramental liturgy of the Roman church, and its body of canon law. Within Roman Catholicism itself, Blaise Pascal accused the Jesuits of antinomianism in his Lettres provinciales, charging that Jesuit casuistry undermined moral principles. Charges of antinomianism have also been bandied about within the Protestant camp as well; Martin Luther accused Johannes Agricola of antinomianism and rejecting the notion of a moral law; other Protestant groups that have been so accused include the Anabaptists and Mennonites. Calvinists have also drawn charges of antinomianism. In the history of American Puritanism, Roger Williams was accused of antinomian teachings by the Puritan leadership of New England.

Theological charges of antinomianism typically imply that the opponent's doctrine leads to various sorts of licentiousness, and imply that the antinomian chooses his theology in order to further a career of dissipation. The conspicuous austerity of life among surviving groups of Anabaptists or Calvinists suggests that these accusations are mostly for rhetorical effect.

Resources
  • Badenas, Robert. Christ the End of the Law, Romans 10.4 in Pauline Perspective 1985 argues that telos is correctly translated as goal, not end, so that Christ is the goal of the Law, end of the law would be antinomianism
  • James Dunn Jesus, Paul and the Law 1990
  • Hall, Robert W., Anchor Bible Dictionary, Antinomianism
https://www.theopedia.com/antinomianism
 

TheLearner

Well-known member
Jan 14, 2019
8,221
1,584
113
68
Brighton, MI
Those of us who disagree with you Brother, friend believe in simply: Walking in The Spirit, Work by the Fruit of the Spirit, Be filled with the Holy Spirit, Grace Alone, and Living in God's Agape to others. I also, posted texts that shows if one follows this recipe, there is no need to worry about law keeping.
 

TheLearner

Well-known member
Jan 14, 2019
8,221
1,584
113
68
Brighton, MI

See antinomianism. The rest is simply straw man as if we don't believe in those things.


I gave you the definition and how Mature Christians live.

2 Peter 1
Easy-to-Read Version
1 Greetings from Simon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ.

To all of you who share in the same valuable faith that we have. This faith was given to us because our God and Savior Jesus Christ always does what is good and right.

2 Grace and peace be given to you more and more, because now you know God and Jesus our Lord.

God Has Given Us Everything We Need
3 Jesus has the power of God. And his power has given us everything we need to live a life devoted to God. We have these things because we know him. Jesus chose us by his glory and goodness, 4 through which he also gave us the very great and rich gifts that he promised us. With these gifts you can share in being like God. And so you will escape the ruin that comes to people in the world because of the evil things they want.

5 Because you have these blessings, do all you can to add to your life these things: to your faith add goodness; to your goodness add knowledge; 6 to your knowledge add self-control; to your self-control add patience; to your patience add devotion to God; 7 to your devotion add kindness toward your brothers and sisters in Christ, and to this kindness add love. 8 If all these things are in you and growing, you will never fail to be useful to God. You will produce the kind of fruit that should come from your knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 But those who don’t grow in these blessings are blind. They cannot see clearly what they have. They have forgotten that they were cleansed from their past sins.

10 My brothers and sisters, God called you and chose you to be his. Do your best to live in a way that shows you really are God’s called and chosen people. If you do all this, you will never fall. 11 And you will be given a very great welcome into the kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, a kingdom that never ends.

12 You already know these things. You are very strong in the truth you have. But I am always going to help you remember them. 13 While I am still living here on earth, I think it is right for me to remind you of them. 14 I know that I must soon leave this body. Our Lord Jesus Christ has shown me that. 15 I will try my best to make sure you remember these things even after I am gone.