Interesting insight (John 3v36) OSAS take note
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Hi Jackrosie, believe it or not MANY MANY OSAS believers think that obedience has NO BEARING on salvation (my caps here are not shouting but emphasis). Obedience instead is categorised as discipleship, or something we should aspire to. When confronting an OSAS believer with the following question below, you will see no end to the dodging, avoidance, dancing around the topic. Anything but to avoid answering what is plainly obvious to the CONSCIENCE. Below is the question:
Q: As a believer, are you free to continue in adultery and fornication without repentance, and still be saved on the day of judgement?
To which the most typical standard response is "A true believer won't do that anyway". But they have not answered the question. A Y/N answer is all that is needed. Yes or No.
Q: As a believer, are you free to continue in adultery and fornication without repentance, and still be saved on the day of judgement?
To which the most typical standard response is "A true believer won't do that anyway". But they have not answered the question. A Y/N answer is all that is needed. Yes or No.
E
the question is is obedience involved the question is what context obedience is used
if it is used as a means of earning salvation, then it is a false gospel, as even Paul tells us perfection is required and all have sinned and fall short of this requirement (gods glory) these are also called self righteous deeds, which are unable to saved because we are saved by Gods mercy
if it is used in context of as a result of salvation people living out their new creation, then it is called works of righteousness or living out our new creation of which scripture says ALL of Gods children will do this, which is why it is seen as a byproduct of salvation and why we are told those born of him obey him
if it is used as a means of earning salvation, then it is a false gospel, as even Paul tells us perfection is required and all have sinned and fall short of this requirement (gods glory) these are also called self righteous deeds, which are unable to saved because we are saved by Gods mercy
if it is used in context of as a result of salvation people living out their new creation, then it is called works of righteousness or living out our new creation of which scripture says ALL of Gods children will do this, which is why it is seen as a byproduct of salvation and why we are told those born of him obey him
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E
here we see how a legalist turns the grace of god into self righteous works
he ignores his own sin while judging others of theirs, he can not look inside and see he does not meet gods standard, but will try to support his noses belief with the normal view of true believers will not do these th8mgs, even though scripture shows otherwise,
in his standard, David was not saved when he committed those sins, because as he said, no true believer would do those things
he ignores his own sin while judging others of theirs, he can not look inside and see he does not meet gods standard, but will try to support his noses belief with the normal view of true believers will not do these th8mgs, even though scripture shows otherwise,
in his standard, David was not saved when he committed those sins, because as he said, no true believer would do those things
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E
1. I was not answering a question I was commenting to the room what you said
2. it would be better, if I was trying to answer any question to ask a better more appropriate question
if a believer can commit any sin after he is saved, then to say a believe is not a believer because they committed some pet sin is an invalid question
2. it would be better, if I was trying to answer any question to ask a better more appropriate question
if a believer can commit any sin after he is saved, then to say a believe is not a believer because they committed some pet sin is an invalid question
Did anybody notice how all of these modern translations changes the word "believe" to "does not obey"?
(Joh 3:36) He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
NLT : And anyone who believes in God’s Son has eternal life. Anyone who doesn’t obey the Son will never experience eternal life but remains under God’s angry judgment.”
ESV: Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.
NASB: "He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him."
ISV: The one who believes in the Son has eternal life, but the one who disobeys the Son will not see life. Instead, the wrath of God remains on him.
The message of the KJV is he that believes on the on the Son has everlasting life and those that don't believe on the Son don't have everlasting life. And we ALL know this is true. It's a plain and simple contrast between a believer and a non-believer.
The message of these other versions is anyone who believes in Jesus has eternal life BUT even though he believes in Jesus, if he disobeys Jesus he will not have eternal life.
No wonder Chris and all the others believe they can loose their salvation, that's the message of the newer translations.
(Joh 3:36) He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
NLT : And anyone who believes in God’s Son has eternal life. Anyone who doesn’t obey the Son will never experience eternal life but remains under God’s angry judgment.”
ESV: Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.
NASB: "He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him."
ISV: The one who believes in the Son has eternal life, but the one who disobeys the Son will not see life. Instead, the wrath of God remains on him.
The message of the KJV is he that believes on the on the Son has everlasting life and those that don't believe on the Son don't have everlasting life. And we ALL know this is true. It's a plain and simple contrast between a believer and a non-believer.
The message of these other versions is anyone who believes in Jesus has eternal life BUT even though he believes in Jesus, if he disobeys Jesus he will not have eternal life.
No wonder Chris and all the others believe they can loose their salvation, that's the message of the newer translations.
1) Jesus says if you love Him you will obey his commands, which are not burdensome ---> I don't believe that there will be people who enter heaven who do not love Jesus Christ.
2) Jesus addresses those who refuse to heed his commands in the following way: Why do you call me Lord, Lord and not do what I say? ---> showing Jesus has an issue with those calling Him Lord, but refuse obedience.
3) The bible says in Romans 8 : If you BY THE SPIRIT put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live ---> I believe this verse in its entirety. This verse is not optional. We are to crucify the flesh. Daily. Consider ourselves dead to sin.
4) The bible says in Romans 6: What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin so that Grace may abound? Certainly not! How can we who died to sin LIVE ANY LONGER therein ----> the person who says they are saved by Grace better quickly understand what this grace actually means.
5) I believe Jesus did not die JUST to save us from the penalty of Sin. He was RISEN to save us from the POWER of sin. ----> Jesus came to destroy the WORKS of the devil.
6) John the baptist paved the way for the Lord Jesus with the ministry of Repentance. Jesus Christ started his ministry with the same words. ---> Matthew 4v17. ---> how can ANYONE say repentance is not necessary for salvation? Repentance is a change of mind concerning your SIN. How can you serve two masters?
7) We cannot earn justification by any works we have done. Peace can only be had with the Father through faith in Jesus Christ.
8) Now that Jesus has dealt with the penalty, He moves to deal with the Power. We have our sanctification walk to walk. Those who Walk with God are His. Romans 8 says: Those who are LED by the Spirit are the sons of God. ---> any OSAS believer thinking they don't have to obey the word are NOT walking with God.
9) Lets just sum up all of this above: 1 John 1v6-7 v6 If we say that we have fellowship with Him, and walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth. 7 But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin. ------> see that? The blood of Jesus cleanses the sins of those who WALK WITH HIM.
2) Jesus addresses those who refuse to heed his commands in the following way: Why do you call me Lord, Lord and not do what I say? ---> showing Jesus has an issue with those calling Him Lord, but refuse obedience.
3) The bible says in Romans 8 : If you BY THE SPIRIT put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live ---> I believe this verse in its entirety. This verse is not optional. We are to crucify the flesh. Daily. Consider ourselves dead to sin.
4) The bible says in Romans 6: What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin so that Grace may abound? Certainly not! How can we who died to sin LIVE ANY LONGER therein ----> the person who says they are saved by Grace better quickly understand what this grace actually means.
5) I believe Jesus did not die JUST to save us from the penalty of Sin. He was RISEN to save us from the POWER of sin. ----> Jesus came to destroy the WORKS of the devil.
6) John the baptist paved the way for the Lord Jesus with the ministry of Repentance. Jesus Christ started his ministry with the same words. ---> Matthew 4v17. ---> how can ANYONE say repentance is not necessary for salvation? Repentance is a change of mind concerning your SIN. How can you serve two masters?
7) We cannot earn justification by any works we have done. Peace can only be had with the Father through faith in Jesus Christ.
8) Now that Jesus has dealt with the penalty, He moves to deal with the Power. We have our sanctification walk to walk. Those who Walk with God are His. Romans 8 says: Those who are LED by the Spirit are the sons of God. ---> any OSAS believer thinking they don't have to obey the word are NOT walking with God.
9) Lets just sum up all of this above: 1 John 1v6-7 v6 If we say that we have fellowship with Him, and walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth. 7 But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin. ------> see that? The blood of Jesus cleanses the sins of those who WALK WITH HIM.
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Maybe you don't understand. Why are two different words, namely PISTEUW and APEIQEW translated as Believeth (one word in the KJV) whereas in different translations they make a clear distinction? Why did KJV not bring the meaning through adequately, since in Greek the very words of GOD are using two different words. You cannot say to me thta KJV is "more correct" than the Greek.
Believeth (in the "Believeth Not" sense) is the same word - Pisteuw. Here we have an example in verse 18 of the same chapter:
3:18 He that believeth 4100 5723 on 1519 him 846 is 2919 0 not 3756 condemned 2919 5743: but 1161 he that believeth 4100 5723 not 3361 is condemned 2919 5769 already 2235, because 3754 he hath 4100 0 not 3361 believed 4100 5758 in 1519 the name 3686 of the only begotten 3439 Son 5207 of God 2316.
See--> believeth not has a negative which does not change Pisteuw. They are both 4100. Therefore you need to give an account of the word APIQEW
3:18 He that believeth 4100 5723 on 1519 him 846 is 2919 0 not 3756 condemned 2919 5743: but 1161 he that believeth 4100 5723 not 3361 is condemned 2919 5769 already 2235, because 3754 he hath 4100 0 not 3361 believed 4100 5758 in 1519 the name 3686 of the only begotten 3439 Son 5207 of God 2316.
See--> believeth not has a negative which does not change Pisteuw. They are both 4100. Therefore you need to give an account of the word APIQEW
Why do you call "obey" more correct? It's because it fits your theology, you want it to mean obey just like the antichrist bibles want it to mean obey.... that's why they're called anti (against) Christ bibles.
Here's the definition you posted to begin the thread.
How would it sound like this: He that believeth on the son hath everlasting life and he that refuses this believe and isn't obedient to this belief shall not see life.
They all say the same thing but believeth not is the easiest to understand.
Those bible verses you posted have an agenda and that agenda is to rob you of your liberty in Christ by MISREPRESENTING the word of God. You did ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to earn your salvation, it was given to you by the grace and goodness of God. You are eternally secure, live in that joy and freedom.
I'm praying for you Chris, I'm praying that God will deliver you from Satan's bondage.
Here's the definition you posted to begin the thread.
- Word: apeiqew
Pronounce: ap-i-theh'-o
Strongs Number: G544
Orig: from 545; to disbelieve (wilfully and perversely):--not believe, disobedient, obey not, unbelieving. G545
Use: TDNT-6:10,818 Verb
Heb Strong: H2308 H3808 H3808 H3985 H3988 H4603 H4775 H4784 H4843 H5637 H8280
1) not to allow one's self to be persuaded
1a) to refuse or withhold belief
1b) to refuse belief and obedience
2) not to comply with
How would it sound like this: He that believeth on the son hath everlasting life and he that refuses this believe and isn't obedient to this belief shall not see life.
They all say the same thing but believeth not is the easiest to understand.
Those bible verses you posted have an agenda and that agenda is to rob you of your liberty in Christ by MISREPRESENTING the word of God. You did ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to earn your salvation, it was given to you by the grace and goodness of God. You are eternally secure, live in that joy and freedom.
I'm praying for you Chris, I'm praying that God will deliver you from Satan's bondage.