IF 'THE DEAD' don't rise then who do we rule and reign over?

[Pilgrimshope]

How can anyone rule over a kingdom if they do not understand what that kingdom is?

P.S.

I should have included verse 18 in my final parentheses in my last response.

"But the saints of the most High shall take the kingdom, and possess the kingdom for ever, even for ever and ever. " (Dan. 7:18)

the kingdom is within us we are being given our original dominion back over sin and death within our own selves

“And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation: neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭17:20-21‬ ‭KJV‬‬


Mankind was given a kingdom in genesis 1-2 but then fell Into slavery to sinful lusts within our heart through satans snare set in Eden this condition within us caused by the forbidden fruit and it’s knowledge within man it was a trap set by Satan for the man and his wife to corrupt themselves and all creation through transgression corrupted the kingdom of earth through sin.

the sin problem is here and is what the forbidden knowledge caused

“For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders, thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness: all these evil things come from within, and defile the man.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭7:21-23‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Gods kingdom is meant to be within us and not this corrupt heart of wicked imaginations and lusts and desires that lead us into commiting sin. Hearing and believing the gospel is meant to become the rule and authority within our heart the kingdom within us where Gods Will is meant to reign un-inhibited by the lists of evil

The Captivity in other words from Paul sound like this corruption of the law within man

“Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.

but I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭7:20-21, 23‬ ‭KJV‬‬

when God forbid man to partake of the knowledge of good and evil, it was because we aren’t meant to have this conflict paul is describing within us. God knew beforehand ot would cause man to be like what Paul is saying held captive and enslaved by our own lusts and desires formed of the evil knowledge of sin in the world we imagine , desire , cover and partake of and let into our inner kingdom

it was a trap and the knowledge of the gospel is the escape to freedom the kingdom of God


“in meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; and that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.”
‭‭2 Timothy‬ ‭2:25-26‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Because we fell Into this trap and became snared and taken captive by satans Will in the world God came to give us the truth to remove the deception in the world

“Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; and ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.

If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.”
‭‭John‬ ‭8:31-32, 34, 36‬ ‭KJV‬‬

The gospel is about becoming free of satans dominion or kingdom in this world and coming into christs dominion and kingdom and receiving the promise ahead of eternal Life as well

“Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey;

whether of sin unto death,

or of obedience unto righteousness?

But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin,

but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.

Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭6:16-

there’s a conversion that happens when we let The gospel of the kingdom in to rule out heart and mind when we let Christ the king and his word become the word of our Lord and king and let him rule the heart and guard the mind

the kingdom is within when we receive the gospel of the kingdom within and believe , and in the future we have the promise of a homeland we can’t yet see and a life together with Jesus that never will end and death and all sorrow will
Be left behind

this life is the time for conversion to christs kingdom in faith and hope and love in deed and truth as we wait for salvstion to come forth

“And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations;

and then shall the end come.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭24:14‬ ‭KJV‬‬

when we face death and are saved by the lords promise who is faithful and well able to keep his word of promise

“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:24‬ ‭

“Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death.”
‭‭John‬ ‭8:51‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: and whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?”
‭‭John‬ ‭11:25-26‬

there’s a kingdom within us by spirit and a kingdom of glory waiting ahead just beyond death

 

[kleronomos]

So you don't know what the beast is that once was and was not and yet is.

And no, it's not Rome. When Revelation was written, the beast that had once existed, did not exist.

https://biblehub.com/revelation/17-8.htm


It exists today though. The world followed after it. If you want to reign, your going to have to be victorious over it. Your not going to do that if you don't confront it.
But according to you, your not even going to enter that kingdom till after the beast is slain.
Why should you reign in the Lord's kingdom if you dont even confront the beast?

https://biblehub.com/revelation/20-4.htm

As I said, it is impossible for there to have been a beast. The image that Daniel saw proves it.


2 Thessalonians 2:5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?

2 Thessalonians 2:6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.

2 Thessalonians 2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.



I know that Satan will be kicked out of heaven and will rule the earth, I know he will be bound and sealed in the abyss, and I know he will again be let loose to deceive the nations.




I won't enter the Tribulation until Satan is kicked out of heaven, if I am still here. I won't enter the Millennial kingdom until Christ returns.

 

[kleronomos]

the kingdom is within us we are being given our original dominion back over sin and death within our own selves

“And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation: neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭17:20-21‬ ‭KJV‬‬


Mankind was given a kingdom in genesis 1-2 but then fell Into slavery to sinful lusts within our heart through satans snare set in Eden this condition within us caused by the forbidden fruit and it’s knowledge within man it was a trap set by Satan for the man and his wife to corrupt themselves and all creation through transgression corrupted the kingdom of earth through sin.

the sin problem is here and is what the forbidden knowledge caused

“For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders, thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness: all these evil things come from within, and defile the man.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭7:21-23‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Gods kingdom is meant to be within us and not this corrupt heart of wicked imaginations and lusts and desires that lead us into commiting sin. Hearing and believing the gospel is meant to become the rule and authority within our heart the kingdom within us where Gods Will is meant to reign un-inhibited by the lists of evil

The Captivity in other words from Paul sound like this corruption of the law within man

“Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.

but I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭7:20-21, 23‬ ‭KJV‬‬

when God forbid man to partake of the knowledge of good and evil, it was because we aren’t meant to have this conflict paul is describing within us. God knew beforehand ot would cause man to be like what Paul is saying held captive and enslaved by our own lusts and desires formed of the evil knowledge of sin in the world we imagine , desire , cover and partake of and let into our inner kingdom

it was a trap and the knowledge of the gospel is the escape to freedom the kingdom of God


“in meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; and that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.”
‭‭2 Timothy‬ ‭2:25-26‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Because we fell Into this trap and became snared and taken captive by satans Will in the world God came to give us the truth to remove the deception in the world

“Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; and ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.

If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.”
‭‭John‬ ‭8:31-32, 34, 36‬ ‭KJV‬‬

The gospel is about becoming free of satans dominion or kingdom in this world and coming into christs dominion and kingdom and receiving the promise ahead of eternal Life as well

“Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey;

whether of sin unto death,

or of obedience unto righteousness?

But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin,

but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.

Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭6:16-

there’s a conversion that happens when we let The gospel of the kingdom in to rule out heart and mind when we let Christ the king and his word become the word of our Lord and king and let him rule the heart and guard the mind

the kingdom is within when we receive the gospel of the kingdom within and believe , and in the future we have the promise of a homeland we can’t yet see and a life together with Jesus that never will end and death and all sorrow will
Be left behind

this life is the time for conversion to christs kingdom in faith and hope and love in deed and truth as we wait for salvstion to come forth

“And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations;

and then shall the end come.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭24:14‬ ‭KJV‬‬

when we face death and are saved by the lords promise who is faithful and well able to keep his word of promise

“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:24‬ ‭

“Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death.”
‭‭John‬ ‭8:51‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: and whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?”
‭‭John‬ ‭11:25-26‬

there’s a kingdom within us by spirit and a kingdom of glory waiting ahead just beyond death

WHICH ARE TWO DIFFERENT SUBJECTS. WHY ARE YOU BRINGING THE SPIRITUAL KINGDOM WITHIN US INTO A DISCUSSION OF THE END TIME EVENTS? IT MAKES NO SENSE AND ONLY CAUSES CONFUSION TO THOSE WHO CAN'T RIGHTLY DIVIDE THE TWO.

IF YOU WOULD LIKE TO DISCUSS THAT SUBJECT THEN PLEASE START A THREAD ON IT AS IT DOESN'T BELONG HERE. THANK YOU.

 

[Shilohsfoal]

It isn't the ascending so much as the RISING UP FROM THE DEAD that freaked them out and remember at this same hour HEAVEN WILL BE OPENED meaning our eyes will be seeing the now 'unseen' world' and what do the see in heaven? The LORD OF LORD AND KING OF KINGS AND THE ARMIES COMING DOWN AND SUDDEN DESTRUCTION IS COMING UPON ALL THOSE WHO HAVE TAKEN THE MARK OF THE BEAST.

WOULD want to live through a nuclear war? What for? If that is the issue I would like for it to land right beside me, rather than survive it as I am not very attached to this world at all. Here doing my duty.

Let me ask you, WHY would Satan allow nuclear war? Why would there be a war when THE whole world is ruled by ONE? Who is fighting who?

It is when he will be STANDING WHERE HE OUGHT NOT, claiming to be 'God' that it all takes place and again it is the return of the Lord.


Mark 13:14 But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains:




Daniel 8:11 Yea, he magnified himself even to the prince of the host, and by him the daily sacrifice was taken away, and the place of his sanctuary was cast down.

Daniel 8:12 And an host was given him against the daily sacrifice by reason of transgression, and it cast down the truth to the ground; and it practised, and prospered.

Daniel 8:13 Then I heard one saint speaking, and another saint said unto that certain saint which spake, How long shall be the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, and the transgression of desolation, to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot?

Daniel 8:14 And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed.



THE SUDDEN DESTRUCTION THAT IS COMING UPON THE WORLD ISN'T NUCLEAR WAR IT IS THE 2ND ADVENT.



Daniel 11:30 For the ships of Chittim shall come against him therefore he shall be grieved, and return, and have indignation against the holy covenant so shall he do; he shall even return, and have intelligence with them that forsake the holy covenant.

Daniel 11:31 And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.

Daniel 11:32 And such as do wickedly against the covenant shall he corrupt by flatteries but the people that do know their God shall be strong, and do exploits.


2 Thessalonians 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

2 Thessalonians 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.


1Thessalonians 5:1 But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.

1Thessalonians 5:2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.

1Thessalonians 5:3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.






8251. shiqquts ►
Strong's Concordance
shiqquts: detested thing
Original Word: שִׁקּוּץ
Part of Speech: Noun Masculine
Transliteration: shiqquts
Phonetic Spelling: (shik-koots')
Definition: detested thing
NAS Exhaustive Concordance
Word Origin
from the same as sheqets
Definition
detested thing
NASB Translation
abominable idols (1), abomination (4), abominations (5), detestable (1), detestable idol (3), detestable idols (2), detestable things (10), detested things (1), filth (1).

Strong's Exhaustive Concordance
abominable filth idol detestable thing
Or shiqquts {shik-koots'}; from shaqats; disgusting, i.e. Filthy; especially idolatrous or (concretely) an idol -- abominable filth (idol, -ation), detestable (thing).




8074. shamem ►
Strong's Concordance
shamem: to be desolated or appalled
Original Word: שָׁמֵם
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: shamem
Phonetic Spelling: (shaw-mame')
Definition: to be desolated or appalled
NAS Exhaustive Concordance
Word Origin
a prim. root
Definition
to be desolated or appalled
NASB Translation
appalled (13), astonished (8), astounded (1), become desolate (1), causes horror (1), causing consternation (1), desolate (22), desolated (4), desolating (1), desolation (5), desolations (3), destitute (1), destroy (1), devastations (1), horrified (2), laid desolate (1), laid waste (4), lie deserted (1), lies desolate (1), made me desolate (1), made you desolate (1), made desolate (3), make the desolate (2), make their desolate (2), make them desolate (1), make your desolate (1), make...appalled (1), make...desolate (1), makes desolate (2), ravaged (1), ruin (1), ruined (1), ruins (1).

Well, you definitely won't be reigning with Christ in the Lord's land if you won't even confront the beast.You'll just have to be one of the many ruled over by israel in the Lord's land if your even there.
But by what you've stated, it looks like you wouldn't want to live there because of the war that devestates the land.

 

[Shilohsfoal]

WHICH ARE TWO DIFFERENT SUBJECTS. WHY ARE YOU BRINGING THE SPIRITUAL KINGDOM WITHIN US INTO A DISCUSSION OF THE END TIME EVENTS? IT MAKES NO SENSE AND ONLY CAUSES CONFUSION TO THOSE WHO CAN'T RIGHTLY DIVIDE THE TWO.

IF YOU WOULD LIKE TO DISCUSS THAT SUBJECT THEN PLEASE START A THREAD ON IT AS IT DOESN'T BELONG HERE. THANK YOU.

PS
The beast doesn't rule the world. It's just a kingdom for heavens sake.

https://biblehub.com/matthew/24-7.htm

Kingdom shall rise against kingdom.

 

[Beckie]

my eyes are old the vision is distorted letters/numbers just sometimes are not there . the overly large font with in the normal font is over whelming .

 

[kleronomos]

my eyes are old the vision is distorted letters/numbers just sometimes are not there . the overly large font with in the normal font is over whelming .

Considering you see me as a power hungry childish person lacking in wisdom and understanding of what is written, I don't understand why you are even trying. And I thought you stopped at the LARGE SCRIBBLE.

Now I will tell you WHY I write in such a 'distracting' manner. Because when we see something we THINK we know we read it as we think it is written. The large and small and assorted colors are to BREAK UP the speed reading, to slow the person down and maybe even have to read over the same part a time or 2 more. So IT IS ON PURPOSE.

Awhile back I started typing out the Greens Interlinear Bible and being a rather slow typist It made me really take notice of how the actual order in which God gave the words, though harder to figure out turned out to be more telling somehow. I still don't know why, I just know it is. Also going slow and then having to check my work again, just opened up my understanding. And, I noticed whenever something was written in a way that seem off, I realized it was to MAKE ME slow down, stop speed reading and give those words that extra bit of attention. And it's turned into quite an amazing adventure. Instead of checking off the check list of I did this much today, I started going slower and pondering upon parts that somehow got my attention. And my understanding was opened up at the same time so truly the first words of the ministry of Jesus It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God maybe the truest words ever spoken.


so yes, I understand it is distracting. But then again, I don't think it is written for very many people right now. God will lead, they will follow, and I will never know it even took place. Which is perfect because it isn't about us anyway. It is about HIM and His wants. We are just to do our best to be here in the best shape possible when and if He ever does call upon us. And as for me being power hungry, the reality is, I am quite the opposite. I have never sought out a position of authority nor ruling over anyone my whole life and whenever I have been approached to do so, I have turned it down. I have always worked on the working side rather than on the management side. I am the opposite of what you perceived from the question I asked. Funny thing is is it wasn't about the ruling and reigning at all. It was, and still is, about the events and who goes where when and why and who doesn't and why the gift of salvation is being trampled under foot. I know if I gave my life to get people out of deaths grip and to make sure not another one of mine ever felt those hands again, I would be REALLY UPSET if no one believed I accomplished what I set out to do. What Adam did caused death from the first generation on, BUT what Christ accomplished is of NO EFFECT until the very end? OH MY, I wonder who loves rendering HIM... not able.

That being said the real reason I responded was 'the spots missing' sometimes. If you haven't been checked for macular degeneration you want to do that now, as they can really slow down the progression of it. Cross my heart, hope to die, stick a needle in my eye. Whoever thought I would watch that happening every 6 weeks for years and years. Just in case. I am really hoping my writing style just bothers you and it isn't your eyes. I will pray

 

[Shilohsfoal]

As I said, it is impossible for there to have been a beast. The image that Daniel saw proves it.


2 Thessalonians 2:5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?

2 Thessalonians 2:6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.

2 Thessalonians 2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.



I know that Satan will be kicked out of heaven and will rule the earth, I know he will be bound and sealed in the abyss, and I know he will again be let loose to deceive the nations.




I won't enter the Tribulation until Satan is kicked out of heaven, if I am still here. I won't enter the Millennial kingdom until Christ returns.

It's not impossible for there to have been a beast before revelation was written for even revelation says there was.


You just havnt fiqured out who it is talking about yet. You shouldn't just give up on it. If you don't know now, it doesn't mean you won't realize what it is later.

The beast you saw once was, now is not, and will come up out of the abyss and go to his destruction. The Inhabitants of the earth who's names have not been written in the book of life from the creation of the world will be astonished when they see the beast because he once was, now is not,and yet will come.

 

[kleronomos]

It's not impossible for there to have been a beast before revelation was written for even revelation says there was.


You just havnt fiqured out who it is talking about yet. You shouldn't just give up on it. If you don't know now, it doesn't mean you won't realize what it is later.

The beast you saw once was, now is not, and will come up out of the abyss and go to his destruction. The Inhabitants of the earth who's names have not been written in the book of life from the creation of the world will be astonished when they see the beast because he once was, now is not,and yet will come.

ALL the reds are the beast THAT GOD SAYS IS THE BEAST and what GOD says the beast will look like, where he will come from, who will be partakers in it, and WHAT WILL DESTROY IT and what will happen afterwards. If THE BEAST you are discussing FITS INTO EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THESE VERSES, You show me how, without exception, and I WILL BELIEVE IT. UNTIL it fits into WHAT IS WRITTEN, I don't care what any man thinks or says or believes. So you explain where 'this beast' fits and we will go from there.



Daniel 2:36 This is the dream; and we will tell the interpretation thereof before the king.

Daniel 2:37 Thou, O king, art a king of kings for the God of heaven hath given thee a kingdom, power, and strength, and glory.

Daniel 2:38 And wheresoever the children of men dwell, the beasts of the field and the fowls of the heaven hath he given into thine hand, and hath made thee ruler over them all. Thou art this head of gold.

Daniel 2:39 And after thee shall arise another kingdom inferior to thee, and another third kingdom of brass, which shall bear rule over all the earth.

Daniel 2:40 And the fourth kingdom shall be strong as iron forasmuch as iron breaketh in pieces and subdueth all things and as iron that breaketh all these, shall it break in pieces and bruise.

Daniel 2:41 And whereas thou sawest the feet and toes, part of potters' clay, and part of iron, the kingdom shall be divided; but there shall be in it of the strength of the iron, forasmuch as thou sawest the iron mixed with miry clay.

Daniel 2:42 And as the toes of the feet were part of iron, and part of clay, so the kingdom shall be partly strong, and partly broken.

Daniel 2:43 And whereas thou sawest iron mixed with miry clay, they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men but they shall not cleave one to another, even as iron is not mixed with clay.

Daniel 2:44 And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.

Daniel 2:45 Forasmuch as thou sawest that the stone was cut out of the mountain without hands, and that it brake in pieces the iron, the brass, the clay, the silver, and the gold; the great God hath made known to the king what shall come to pass hereafter and the dream is certain, and the interpretation thereof sure.




Revelation 12:7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,

Revelation 12:8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.

Revelation 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.



Revelation 13:1 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.

Revelation 13:2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.

Revelation 13:3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.

Revelation 13:4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?

Revelation 13:5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.

Revelation 13:6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.

Revelation 13:7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

Revelation 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.


1. Which kingdom made up of 10 different kings came into power?

2. Which 'head' of what kingdom received the deadly wound?

3. How was the deadly wound healed?

4. Did anyone make a record Satan 'like lightening falling from the sky'?

5. Which supernatural signs and wonders did he do? How many?

6. What were the names of the 10 kingdoms and what were the names of the kings who wore the crowns?

7. What did the image that was set up look like?

8. Where exactly did Satan stand claiming to be God?

9. What was the mark they took?

10. What day did the world see the return of Jesus with 10,000s of His angels? How bright is His Brightness?

11. Why isn't there still a valley from where His feet touched down on the Mount? Did many die at the change?

12. Where were the 7000 who instantly died at the Lords return found?

13. Did any of the fallen angels seduce the woman? Who did the fallen angels marry? What happened to their children?

14. How many days was it neither dark nor light?

15. Where is the throne of David set up and where is it now?

16. Where are all the alive and remaining who were changed?

17. Where are all the dead who rose up?

18. What year was the GWTJ?

19. Where is the abyss Satan was cast and sealed into?

20. Who recorded what he or it looked like when men asked 'is this the man who deceived the world'?

21. What day did the 42 months begin and end on?

22. Who did the Holy Spirit speak through?

23. Who was given up for 10 day trials? Were they then released or not? If not what happened to them?

24. How many people recorded these events?


Looking forward your answers. The great thing about history is it is recorded so shouldn't take too long and I am hoping you already have all the answers recorded somewhere.

 

[Adstar]

Flooding your post with rheams and rheams of scripture does not substitue for actual points.. Yeah you may give the impression that your very religous to some people and they may therefore think you have some Authority but thats only some people..

ARE you trying to tell me that 'THE CAMP OF THE SAINTS' IS OUTSIDE THE BELOVED CITY? AND THE CAMP IS THE CHURCH AND THE CITY IS ISRAEL?

Oh and bolding and caping ( shouting ) does not substitue for substance..

Yes i am saying the camp of the Saints will be outside Jerusalem and inside Jerusalem the decendants of the 144,000 will be living normal flesh lives ( extended a lot but still notmal flesh ) The Saints who will be ruling with Jesus will have eternal bodies and will be perfect / without sin.. They will be different beings.. Interacting with the locals but not living in the same area as the locals.. Again remember this is Not in eternity.. This is during the 1000 Years before the actual final judgement when ALL who shall be saved will be given eternal bodies.. So there is a distinction between the Saints who are ruling with Jesus and those being ruled ( 144,000 and decendants )..

QUIT TRYING TO BUILD BACK THE PARTITION THAT CHRIST JESUS BROKE DOWN

The division will be in the different nature of the beings.. We shall be different. Though all will be subject to God.. Again you are mixing up the current times with the different times in the 1000 year kingdom.. Jesus did remove the division and all Saints of our current time both Jews and gentiles are united in the Faith of the Atonement of the LORD Jesus Christ.. But during the 1000 years the resurrected Saints will be different from the 144,000 and the nations that survive the great tribulation..

ANOTHER REASON WHY PRE TRIB RAPTURE GOES AGAINST THE SAVING OF SOULS AND RENDERS IT IMPOSSIBLE TO BRING ANYONE TO CHRIST.

Why are you even bringing up the issue of rapture in response to my post ?? Did i mention the rapture?? Nope.. I am not even a supporter of per-tribulation rapture.. At this stage of your post you have simply projected a position on me ( built a fake straw man around me ) and you are burning it.. If you reply to me deal with the positions i have stated in my post.. Don't rant all over the place about topics and positions i have not put forward..

 

[Shilohsfoal]

ALL the reds are the beast THAT GOD SAYS IS THE BEAST and what GOD says the beast will look like, where he will come from, who will be partakers in it, and WHAT WILL DESTROY IT and what will happen afterwards. If THE BEAST you are discussing FITS INTO EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THESE VERSES, You show me how, without exception, and I WILL BELIEVE IT. UNTIL it fits into WHAT IS WRITTEN, I don't care what any man thinks or says or believes. So you explain where 'this beast' fits and we will go from there.



Daniel 2:36 This is the dream; and we will tell the interpretation thereof before the king.

Daniel 2:37 Thou, O king, art a king of kings for the God of heaven hath given thee a kingdom, power, and strength, and glory.

Daniel 2:38 And wheresoever the children of men dwell, the beasts of the field and the fowls of the heaven hath he given into thine hand, and hath made thee ruler over them all. Thou art this head of gold.

Daniel 2:39 And after thee shall arise another kingdom inferior to thee, and another third kingdom of brass, which shall bear rule over all the earth.

Daniel 2:40 And the fourth kingdom shall be strong as iron forasmuch as iron breaketh in pieces and subdueth all things and as iron that breaketh all these, shall it break in pieces and bruise.

Daniel 2:41 And whereas thou sawest the feet and toes, part of potters' clay, and part of iron, the kingdom shall be divided; but there shall be in it of the strength of the iron, forasmuch as thou sawest the iron mixed with miry clay.

Daniel 2:42 And as the toes of the feet were part of iron, and part of clay, so the kingdom shall be partly strong, and partly broken.

Daniel 2:43 And whereas thou sawest iron mixed with miry clay, they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men but they shall not cleave one to another, even as iron is not mixed with clay.

Daniel 2:44 And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.

Daniel 2:45 Forasmuch as thou sawest that the stone was cut out of the mountain without hands, and that it brake in pieces the iron, the brass, the clay, the silver, and the gold; the great God hath made known to the king what shall come to pass hereafter and the dream is certain, and the interpretation thereof sure.




Revelation 12:7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,

Revelation 12:8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.

Revelation 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.



Revelation 13:1 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.

Revelation 13:2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.

Revelation 13:3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.

Revelation 13:4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?

Revelation 13:5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.

Revelation 13:6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.

Revelation 13:7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

Revelation 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.


1. Which kingdom made up of 10 different kings came into power?

2. Which 'head' of what kingdom received the deadly wound?

3. How was the deadly wound healed?

4. Did anyone make a record Satan 'like lightening falling from the sky'?

5. Which supernatural signs and wonders did he do? How many?

6. What were the names of the 10 kingdoms and what were the names of the kings who wore the crowns?

7. What did the image that was set up look like?

8. Where exactly did Satan stand claiming to be God?

9. What was the mark they took?

10. What day did the world see the return of Jesus with 10,000s of His angels? How bright is His Brightness?

11. Why isn't there still a valley from where His feet touched down on the Mount? Did many die at the change?

12. Where were the 7000 who instantly died at the Lords return found?

13. Did any of the fallen angels seduce the woman? Who did the fallen angels marry? What happened to their children?

14. How many days was it neither dark nor light?

15. Where is the throne of David set up and where is it now?

16. Where are all the alive and remaining who were changed?

17. Where are all the dead who rose up?

18. What year was the GWTJ?

19. Where is the abyss Satan was cast and sealed into?

20. Who recorded what he or it looked like when men asked 'is this the man who deceived the world'?

21. What day did the 42 months begin and end on?

22. Who did the Holy Spirit speak through?

23. Who was given up for 10 day trials? Were they then released or not? If not what happened to them?

24. How many people recorded these events?


Looking forward your answers. The great thing about history is it is recorded so shouldn't take too long and I am hoping you already have all the answers recorded somewhere.

It's not my fault it is hidden from your eyes.
Maybe someday God will reveal it to you.

 

[Shilohsfoal]

Flooding your post with rheams and rheams of scripture does not substitue for actual points.. Yeah you may give the impression that your very religous to some people and they may therefore think you have some Authority but thats only some people..



Oh and bolding and caping ( shouting ) does not substitue for substance..

Yes i am saying the camp of the Saints will be outside Jerusalem and inside Jerusalem the decendants of the 144,000 will be living normal flesh lives ( extended a lot but still notmal flesh ) The Saints who will be ruling with Jesus will have eternal bodies and will be perfect / without sin.. They will be different beings.. Interacting with the locals but not living in the same area as the locals.. Again remember this is Not in eternity.. This is during the 1000 Years before the actual final judgement when ALL who shall be saved will be given eternal bodies.. So there is a distinction between the Saints who are ruling with Jesus and those being ruled ( 144,000 and decendants )..



The division will be in the different nature of the beings.. We shall be different. Though all will be subject to God.. Again you are mixing up the current times with the different times in the 1000 year kingdom.. Jesus did remove the division and all Saints of our current time both Jews and gentiles are united in the Faith of the Atonement of the LORD Jesus Christ.. But during the 1000 years the resurrected Saints will be different from the 144,000 and the nations that survive the great tribulation..



Why are you even bringing up the issue of rapture in response to my post ?? Did i mention the rapture?? Nope.. I am not even a supporter of per-tribulation rapture.. At this stage of your post you have simply projected a position on me ( built a fake straw man around me ) and you are burning it.. If you reply to me deal with the positions i have stated in my post.. Don't rant all over the place about topics and positions i have not put forward..

I understand those who were killed for thier witness of Jesus and who did not worship the beast or its image or recieve its mark shall reign with Christ. That much is written. But I believe the 144000 did not worship the beast, its Image or recieve its mark as well. They were victorious over the beast as well. That explains the name of thier father written in thier foreheads.

https://biblehub.com/revelation/3-12.htm

Those who are reigning with Christ is Israel. This to is written in isaiah.That would include those 144000 of Israel.

https://biblehub.com/kjv/isaiah/14-2.htm

Those who are being reigned over are the nations. This too is written.

It actually makes perfect sense once you fiqure out the beast is the Israeli goverment that is going to give its citizens the mark.

 

[Adstar]

I understand those who were killed for their witness of Jesus and who did not worship the beast or its image or receive its mark shall reign with Christ. That much is written. But I believe the 144000 did not worship the beast, its Image or receive its mark as well.

I agree.. They are described as ""innocents having never known a woman"" which points to me as if they are little ones.. toddlers.. even infants.. The scriptures make it clear that anyone who worships the image of the beast and receives the Mark of the beast are doomed.. They will not be saved.. Of course we have a very different idea about Why the 144,000 will not worship the beast and receive the Mark..

The book of revelation makes a distinction between the 144,000 and another group of people.. I believe the other group of people will include Christians who refuse to worship the beast and do not receive the mark of the beast.. If the 144,000 people and the second group are the same people then there would be no need to mention them separately.. I quote the passage..

Note Rev chapter 7 before this verse describes the 144,000 and who they are.. Note the 144,000 are numbered but the second group that is distinct from the first group are of a number that no man can count..

Revelation 7:
"After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands; {10} And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb. {11} And all the angels stood round about the throne, and about the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God, {12} Saying, Amen: Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honour, and power, and might, be unto our God for ever and ever. Amen. {13} And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they? {14} And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb."

Note also that this group goes through the great tribulation and are Christians because they are Washed / covered by the Atoning Blood of the Lamb of God, Jesus Christ..

 

[FreeGrace2]

We are not going to rule and reign over each other but we will rule and reign over THE DEAD who have been resurrected.

Approx half of the world's population will be killed during the Tribulation. Rev 6:8 and and 9:15.

All believers will be resurrected in a single resurrection "when He comes", which is the Second Advent, to end the Tribulation and set up His Millennial kingdom. So Jesus will "rule the nations with a rod of iron". Those who survived the Tribulation. And all resurrected believers will serve/reign with Him.

For 1000 years, those resurrected when Christ returns HAVE NOT yet BEEN JUDGED.

Those resurrected when Christ returns are believers only. 1 Cor 15:23 - But each in turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him.

AND there WONT BE another judgment day FOR 1000 YEARS.

This singular resurrection is for all unbelievers. Acts 24:15 - and I have the same hope in God as these men themselves have, that there will be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked.

iow, one each. The difference is that the resurrection of the unsaved will NOT include a glorified body.

Revelation 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

The GWT is only for unbelievers, since all believers were resurrected/glorified 1,000 years prior when Christ returned.

Revelation 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

Intil fairly recently I always thought the 'second death' was just another way to say "spiritual death". However, all people are already born spiritually dead or become spiritually dead at the first sin. Whatever.

In fact, since the Bible teaches that there will be a resurrection for all unsaved, they will get their old carcass back, only to have it physically DIE AGAIN. That is what the "second death" refers to. Physical bodies will be consumed in the lake of fire. Not the souls.

NOTICE WHO ISN'T JUDGED AT THE GWTJ? THOSE WHO WERE JUDGED on their last day when they went to be where CHRIST IS, in heaven, at the right hand of God, who will be returning with Him, to rule and reign OVER THE DEAD. (just and unjust until they are judged)

No believer will be judged at the GWT judgment, since their evaluation was at the Bema or judgment Seat of Christ when He returns.

2 Cor 5:10

 

[Shilohsfoal]

I agree.. They are described as ""innocents having never known a woman"" which points to me as if they are little ones.. toddlers.. even infants.. The scriptures make it clear that anyone who worships the image of the beast and receives the Mark of the beast are doomed.. They will not be saved.. Of course we have a very different idea about Why the 144,000 will not worship the beast and receive the Mark..

The book of revelation makes a distinction between the 144,000 and another group of people.. I believe the other group of people will include Christians who refuse to worship the beast and do not receive the mark of the beast.. If the 144,000 people and the second group are the same people then there would be no need to mention them separately.. I quote the passage..

Note Rev chapter 7 before this verse describes the 144,000 and who they are.. Note the 144,000 are numbered but the second group that is distinct from the first group are of a number that no man can count..

Revelation 7:
"After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands; {10} And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb. {11} And all the angels stood round about the throne, and about the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God, {12} Saying, Amen: Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honour, and power, and might, be unto our God for ever and ever. Amen. {13} And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they? {14} And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb."

Note also that this group goes through the great tribulation and are Christians because they are Washed / covered by the Atoning Blood of the Lamb of God, Jesus Christ..

https://biblehub.com/kjv/isaiah/14-2.htm

Isaiah makes it clear who will reign with Christ in the Lord's land. He says Israel will reign over the nations

The 144000 in Revelation are israel. 12000 from each tribe.
The great multitude which comes out of great tribulation are from other nations. They are not israel. I repeat, they are not israel. They come from the nations.
According to zechariah 14.The survivors of the nations which attack Jerusalem are saved from the plague of the great tribulation. That is who you see in Revelation from the nations.

The mark of the beast is not offered to them because they don't live in Israel.

As I stated. Once you learn that the Israeli goverment is the beast, and the occupants of Israel recieve its mark,it all marks sense why the remnant of Israel will reign over the nations as isaiah stated. Read what he says.

https://biblehub.com/kjv/isaiah/14-2.htm

 

[FreeGrace2]

https://biblehub.com/kjv/isaiah/14-2.htm

Isaiah makes it clear who will reign with Christ in the Lord's land. He says Israel will reign over the nations

1 Cor 15:23 - But each in turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him.

This verse says ALL believers, not just Jews. And Paul's epistle was addressed to Gentile believers in Corinth.

Rev 20:4,5 shows that this resurrection of all believers is the FIRST resurrection, the second one being for the unsaved, which will occur at the end of the Millennial reign, for the GWT judgment.

In this first resurrection will be tribulational martyrs, not just Jews. All believers who were martyred during the Trib.

 

[Shilohsfoal]

1 Cor 15:23 - But each in turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him.

This verse says ALL believers, not just Jews. And Paul's epistle was addressed to Gentile believers in Corinth.

Rev 20:4,5 shows that this resurrection of all believers is the FIRST resurrection, the second one being for the unsaved, which will occur at the end of the Millennial reign, for the GWT judgment.

In this first resurrection will be tribulational martyrs, not just Jews. All believers who were martyred during the Trib.

Paul never recieved the revelation of Jesus christ which he gave to John to show us after Paul was dead and buried.

You can quote Paul all you want but Paul didn't know everything as he said and he definitely didn't know revelation.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Paul never recieved the revelation of Jesus christ which he gave to John to show us after Paul was dead and buried.

Huh? Paul was given direct revelation from Jesus Christ.
Gal1:12 - I did not receive it from any man, nor was I taught it; rather, I received it by revelation from Jesus Christ.

Further, Paul also went to heaven.
2 Cor 12:1-7
I must go on boasting. Although there is nothing to be gained, I will go on to visions and revelations from the Lord. I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago was caught up to the third heaven. Whether it was in the body or out of the body I do not know—God knows. And I know that this man—whether in the body or apart from the body I do not know, but God knows— was caught up to paradise and heard inexpressible things, things that no one is permitted to tell. I will boast about a man like that, but I will not boast about myself, except about my weaknesses. Even if I should choose to boast, I would not be a fool, because I would be speaking the truth. But I refrain, so no one will think more of me than is warranted by what I do or say,

You can quote Paul all you want but Paul didn't know everything as he said and he definitely didn't know revelation.

These verses prove the opposite. Paul and John both knew more than anyone else.

btw, the issue isn't about what "Paul didn't know". The issue is that Paul was a writer of Scripture, inspired by the Holy Spirit. So what he wrote is just as much important as what John or any other writer wrote.

Please don't sell him short. He wrote MORE theology than all the others combined.

 

[Shilohsfoal]

Huh? Paul was given direct revelation from Jesus Christ.
Gal1:12 - I did not receive it from any man, nor was I taught it; rather, I received it by revelation from Jesus Christ.

Further, Paul also went to heaven.
2 Cor 12:1-7
I must go on boasting. Although there is nothing to be gained, I will go on to visions and revelations from the Lord. I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago was caught up to the third heaven. Whether it was in the body or out of the body I do not know—God knows. And I know that this man—whether in the body or apart from the body I do not know, but God knows— was caught up to paradise and heard inexpressible things, things that no one is permitted to tell. I will boast about a man like that, but I will not boast about myself, except about my weaknesses. Even if I should choose to boast, I would not be a fool, because I would be speaking the truth. But I refrain, so no one will think more of me than is warranted by what I do or say,


These verses prove the opposite. Paul and John both knew more than anyone else.

btw, the issue isn't about what "Paul didn't know". The issue is that Paul was a writer of Scripture, inspired by the Holy Spirit. So what he wrote is just as much important as what John or any other writer wrote.

Please don't sell him short. He wrote MORE theology than all the others combined.

JESUS did not give the revelation of Jesus christ which God gave to him to show his servants to Paul. He gave it to John to deliver to us.
If he had given it to Paul then Paul would have been the author of Revelation I sted of John.

Jesus chose John for that task and would not even share that task with Peter when he asked about John.

 

[Shilohsfoal]

Jesus waited till Paul was dead before sharing revelation with John. That's says much in itself.