If Perchance Catholicism Is Mistaken

[Dan_473]

Again, the Muslims do not believe in the One true God. They believe in allah, who is not God. Then they tac a false prophet on top of that. They are lost. Where as the Jews believe in the One true God and been blinded to Christ for a time.

Another interesting thing I think about God's name

Many Christians feel that the common curse phrase
"G. d. "
Is taking God's name in vain.

But what the third commandment is talking about is using God's personal name in the old testament
"yhwh" (the vowels are unknown)
As part of an oath and then breaking that oath.
I think.

 

[kaylagrl]

As I understand it, Allah is simply the common Arabic word for God.

You probably know that Arabic and Hebrew are both Semitic languages. The basic Hebrew root word for God is El. In Arabic the basic root is Al. The roots are obviously related, just a little pronunciation drift. The common word for God in the old testament is "Elohim" (literally "Gods"). How the Al root became Allah, I don't know.
Would you be offended if someone said
"There is no God but Elohim"?

Kind of like in English we say God, and in German they say Gott.

So I think we could talk about the Muslim situation either of two ways

Muslims are on the right track with believing that there is just one God, but they are misled about God giving Muhammad the Quran.

Or we could say that the god that Muslims believe in, the god that inspired the Quran, is either non-existent, that is to say a false god, or it was a satanic force or a demon.

Yes, I'd agree with your last statement.

 

[Dan_473]

Our One Lord and Savior is alive and well as is His word. That is His story and I'm sticking to it.

I totally hear what you're saying!

And regarding the Bible, God's word, I wouldn't encourage anyone to look into the history of how we got the Bible today, unless they really felt led by the holy Spirit to do so.

The results can be life-changing, but they can also be disturbing!

 

[kaylagrl]

Well, I would see it differently, as I talked about above.

Muslims believe that there is just one God. They are correct about that. The common Arabic word for God is Allah, though I agree that many Muslims seem to think of it as a personal name. Kind of like how many English speakers think of God as a personal name, when it is actually a title.

But Muslims are wrong about Muhammad. a person can be right about one thing and wrong about something else.

To use a different situation, are Jehovah's witnesses right when they say that God created the heavens and the Earth? they are wrong when they say that Jesus is not God.

No, we would disagree here. If you read the Quran and about allah, He is nothing like the One true God. He is a false god, demonic, I believe. So they are wrong on both points.

 

[Dan_473]

I think the question you asked, "Yet Jews say that Jesus is not God. So how can they be believing in the God of Abraham?" , is a good one, but the answer has to be that they DON'T believe in the God of Abraham.
John 8:56-58 New King James Version (NKJV)
56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see My day, and he saw it and was glad.”

57 Then the Jews said to Him, “You are not yet fifty years old, and have You seen Abraham?”

58 Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.”



And the Muslims CERTAINLY don't believe in the God of Abraham because they also don't believe Jesus is God in the Flesh.

I see what you're saying. In the context of my post above, I was talking to Jackson and following a particular train of thought. Jackson said that the Jews did believe in the God of Abraham, I think.

 

[Dan_473]

The Bible says we can find Him if we seek Him and that there are things all around us that lead us to Him. But there are also false gods, like what the Muslims believe. And when they die Muslims do not inherit heaven because they have believed in a false god.

I hear what you're saying. Think of the Lakota person I talked about. They would grow up hearing about Wakan Tanka, often translated in English as the great spirit, but probably better as "great mysterious".

If such a person earnestly sought the true God, what would God reveal to them about himself? Especially over time?

He might say that he was not Wakan Tanka, or He might begin by leading that person to a better, truer understanding of the "great mysterious".

 

[Dan_473]

One interpretation is that Revelation 11: 1-11 prophesied this.
That for 3 and half days (which can mean 3 and a half years, which can mean 1260 days, which can mean 1260 years) the 2 witnesses were dead. So this might mean that for 1260 years the Word and Holy Spirit were kept (separated) from the people. Perhaps this 1260 years started around the time Christianity fused with Roman Culture (~325 AD) and ended about 1260 years with the start of the reformation at about 1585 AD).

What Happened In the 16th century which was about 1260 years after ~325AD
In Renaissance Europe, the arrival of mechanical movable type printing introduced the era of mass communication, which permanently altered the structure of society. The relatively unrestricted circulation of information and (revolutionary) ideas transcended borders, captured the masses in the Reformation and threatened the power of political and religious authorities.

Renaissance Period (1300 -1600 AD)
Reformation Period (1517 - 1648 AD)

Revelation foretells about the 1st and 2nd Beast and about the beast that killed the 2 witnesses.
Could the 1st Beast have been the Roman (and then Byzantine) Empire
Could the 2nd Beast have been the middle ages Roman Catholic Church?

Yes, that certainly is a possible interpretation.

 

[Hazelelponi]

.
My eldest brother (for convenience sake, call him Larry) was ordained to the
priesthood in 1965 and remained so for 53 years prior to passing away at
the age of 78 in May of 2018.

Larry graduated from the Pontifical Gregorian University in Rome. He taught
at the University of San Diego and has served in parishes in San Diego,
Mexico, Portland, the Tohono O'odham Indian Reservation, and Huntington
Beach. Larry served as the Director of Pastoral Ministry and the first Rector
of the Conventual Church of Our Lady of the Angels at the Franciscan
Renewal Center, Scottsdale, Arizona.

In 1973, he served at University of San Diego as an Assistant Professor of
Religious Studies in the College of Arts and Sciences. Larry then served as
the University Chaplain and Director of Campus Ministry from September
1974 until June 1984.

Larry entered the Franciscan Order to become a Friar in 1987 after serving
as a priest of the Diocese of San Diego for 22 years. During his semi
retirement years, Larry, he was a priest at the Mission San Luis Rey in
Oceanside, California.

Supposing Rome's version of Christianity is mistaken? (This is only a
hypothetical question; I'm not alleging Rome is mistaken.) The ramifications
of that would be too awful to contemplate. It would mean that my deceased
brother is right now, this very moment, in Hell regardless of the quality and
the extent of his devotion to The Church. It would also mean that my
brother was a minister of darkness rather than light; thus everyone he
influenced was led down a path leading directly to the lake of brimstone
depicted at Rev 20:11-15 where they would be facing a mode of death akin
to a foundry worker falling into a kettle of molten iron.

I can only imagine the crushing, unspeakable dismay that my brother would
undergo were it to turn out that all the while he sincerely believed himself
serving Christ's best interests, he was actually serving the Devil's.
_

Hey. I'm going to come at this from a different view in mind.

The question is not, what if my brother whom I loved was wrong, but do I believe in the God whom I now follow?

I chose to believe in God - This Triune God, and I am willing to put all in His Hand, knowing Him to be perfect in His Judgments, just in all His ways, I know Him to be right in all things, sovereign in all things...

So to Him I give over my will, my desires, my wishes, even what I wish for others whom I love, knowing in all things He will do what is right.

From there, I chose to do in faith what He had led me to do, and leave what is unchangeable in His Hand.

 

[Starflower7]

Supposing Rome's version of Christianity is mistaken? (This is only a
hypothetical question; I'm not alleging Rome is mistaken.) The ramifications
of that would be too awful to contemplate. It would mean that my deceased
brother is right now, this very moment, in Hell regardless of the quality and
the extent of his devotion to The Church. It would also mean that my
brother was a minister of darkness rather than light; thus everyone he
influenced was led down a path leading directly to the lake of brimstone
depicted at Rev 20:11-15 where they would be facing a mode of death akin
to a foundry worker falling into a kettle of molten iron.

I can only imagine the crushing, unspeakable dismay that my brother would
undergo were it to turn out that all the while he sincerely believed himself
serving Christ's best interests, he was actually serving the Devil's.
_[/QUOTE]

That sounds like a real burden to carry, thinking about that.

Here's my understanding of it, and I hope it gives you comfort through Scripture:

For one thing, only God can judge our hearts, and He knows who has a heart fit for heaven. He knows who is in harmony with Him and His law (1 Sam. 16:7; Ps. 24:3-5; Matt. 25:31-46). I believe if your brother had a sincere heart of love for God, and lived up to the light that he had, God will take him home.

For another, the Bible says that the dead know nothing (Ecc. 9:5), that they are neither in heaven (Ps. 115:17), nor in hell until the Second Coming (1 Thess. 4:16, 17; John 5:28, 29). Jesus called death a sleep (John 11:11; Matt. 9:24). So whether your brother had a faithful heart toward God or not, he is sleeping until the resurrection, when God will give everyone the reward they have chosen--either separation from God and death (Ez. 18:4), or eternal life.

The Bible says that the wicked will be "burned up" like "stubble," and will "leave them neither root nor branch" (Mal. 4:1, 3). It also says they will "vanish away" and "be destroyed" and "cut off" (Ps. 37:20, 38). So even a sinner who goes to hell will not be tormented for eternity. God gives the righteous an eternal life of joy, but the wicked are destroyed. As Jesus famously said, "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life." (John 3:16). There are only two options--utter destruction, or everlasting life. And the Lord will do everything He can to make sure we can have life (Rom. 8:31-34).

God is merciful, and He will do what is best for your brother, so don't despair.

 

[Dan_473]

I am curious. So you are saying there are some muslims who believe in Yud Heh Vav Heh, Yaweh, the Heavenly Father, who gave His only begotten son, Yeshua/Jesus, who died and rose again so that we could be reconciled to God?

I would agree with that, if that is what they proclaim. But if they call their God, Allah, I would question, very much if we are serving the same master.

I will admit that I have not studied any of their beliefs concerning Allah, simply because it seems only my God deserves my focus. However, you have peaked my curiosity a bit. I would want to separate myself from even the slightest doubt of who it is I am serving. His name matters.

Well, kind of like I talked about above, I don't think there's any question that Muslims declare that there is only one God. I don't think they refer to God as yhwh, they would probably see that as a Jewish thing.

So about God's name, here's what I understand.
The Hebrew of the old testament was written without vowels. There is a specific personal name for God in the old testament, the letters we have are yhwh. The King James, and many modern English translations, render that as LORD in all caps.

The writers of the New testament never use that personal name for God. Even in places where the New testament quotes the old, they replace yhwh that was in the Hebrew with "kyrios", commonly translated in English as Lord.

There are many places in the old testament where God says something like
I will make my name known among the Nations.
But again, the New testament writers, declaring the gospel to the Nations, never use that four letter name.

Maybe this verse explains it
Acts 4: 12. There is salvation in none other, for neither is there any other name under heaven, that is given among men, by which we must be saved!"

Note the key phrase
Given among men

I understand that as
Available to humans

So the four letter personal name of God isn't really available to us today, as I see it. The name of Jesus is, thanks be to God!

What about the millions of people throughout history who have never heard of the name of Jesus, or the details of the Gospel? I believe that if they truly sought God during their lifetime, God can save them in the name of Jesus. That's my opinion.

 

[Dan_473]

No, we would disagree here. If you read the Quran and about allah, He is nothing like the One true God. He is a false god, demonic, I believe. So they are wrong on both points.

Right, the Quran does not tell about the one true God, the god that Muslims claim that they worship.

What would you say about the Jehovah's witnesses? They talk about just one God, and they say that God gave us the Bible, and that the Bible tells the truth about God. Okay, so I agree with them there.

But then they go on to say that Jesus is Michael the archangel. So I disagree with them there. But are they talking about the same God?

 

[Sipsey]

Right, the Quran does not tell about the one true God, the god that Muslims claim that they worship.

What would you say about the Jehovah's witnesses? They talk about just one God, and they say that God gave us the Bible, and that the Bible tells the truth about God. Okay, so I agree with them there.

But then they go on to say that Jesus is Michael the archangel. So I disagree with them there. But are they talking about the same God?

Dan,

What weight are you giving one that says, there is one God? You allude to the JW’s, you think their one God is sufficient? Jesus said that “no one” can reach God, except, through Him.

I too have a soft spot for native Americans and have books as to their beliefs. There were good, bad and ugly tribes just as there are around the world.

God is a God of grace, but He is The God of judgement also. When His justice is satisfied, His grace is dispensed.

 

[Webers.Home]

.
Larry and I didn't grow up together. We had the same father but not the
same mother.

I was taken to visit Larry just once when we were both young boys. I did not
see him again until I was seventeen when he and our dad gave me a
surprise send-off to the Army in August of 1961.

From thence, our lives took very different directions. Larry went on to
pursue a vocation with the Catholic Church, and I went on to become a
soldier and a welder.

Now the thing is this: Larry entered the priesthood under false pretenses. He
never revealed his mother's divorce, nor did he ever reveal that he had
siblings. Plus his mom was connected. She managed to get Larry's birth
record altered so that her new husband appeared to be Larry's real father.

Larry was ambitious. He wanted to go far with the Catholic Church and
figured his chances would be better if Rome didn't know too much about
him. Long story short; it was Larry's wish that I keep a distance to avoid the
risk of exposure. Larry dropped off the radar, and I lost contact with him for
the next 54 years till we Googled him in 2015. In point of fact, were it not
for the internet, Larry and I probably never would've found each other again.

Because of all the secrecy; I was unable to speak with my brother about
religion till just three years prior to his death via email. However, when I
did; Larry, without saying why, went dark and stopped communicating with
me; and I only found out about his illness and his death just recently when
we Googled him once again.

My one lasting regret is that Larry didn't contact me about his illness so we
could've at least said our good-byes before he passed away.
_

 

[Dan_473]

Dan,

What weight are you giving one that says, there is one God? You allude to the JW’s, you think their one God is sufficient? Jesus said that “no one” can reach God, except, through Him.

I too have a soft spot for native Americans and have books as to their beliefs. There were good, bad and ugly tribes just as there are around the world.

God is a God of grace, but He is The God of judgement also. When His justice is satisfied, His grace is dispensed.

Hi Sipsey,

I agree that believing that there is one God is not enough for salvation.

The larger question I was talking about was what about non-Christian groups that talk about God? Muslims, Lakota, Jehovah's witnesses, and even Jews. Are they talking about the same God, they are just misled about other things? Or are they talking about a different god.

And of course, it could vary from one non-Christian to another.

 

[Dan_473]

.
Larry and I didn't grow up together. We had the same father but not the
same mother.

I was taken to visit Larry just once when we were both young boys. I did not
see him again until I was seventeen when he and our dad gave me a
surprise send-off to the Army in August of 1961.

From thence, our lives took very different directions. Larry went on to
pursue a vocation with the Catholic Church, and I went on to become a
soldier and a welder.

Now the thing is this: Larry entered the priesthood under false pretenses. He
never revealed his mother's divorce, nor did he ever reveal that he had
siblings. Plus his mom was connected. She managed to get Larry's birth
record altered so that her new husband appeared to be Larry's real father.

Larry was ambitious. He wanted to go far with the Catholic Church and
figured his chances would be better if Rome didn't know too much about
him. Long story short; it was Larry's wish that I keep a distance to avoid the
risk of exposure. Larry dropped off the radar, and I lost contact with him for
the next 54 years till we Googled him in 2015. In point of fact, were it not
for the internet, Larry and I probably never would've found each other again.

Because of all the secrecy; I was unable to speak with my brother about
religion till just three years prior to his death via email. However, when I
did; Larry, without saying why, went dark and stopped communicating with
me; and I only found out about his illness and his death just recently when
we Googled him once again.

My one lasting regret is that Larry didn't contact me about his illness so we
could've at least said our good-byes before he passed away.
_

Such a sad story, I extend loads of sympathy. My prayers are with you!

 

[Sipsey]

Hi Sipsey,

I agree that believing that there is one God is not enough for salvation.

The larger question I was talking about was what about non-Christian groups that talk about God? Muslims, Lakota, Jehovah's witnesses, and even Jews. Are they talking about the same God, they are just misled about other things? Or are they talking about a different god.

And of course, it could vary from one non-Christian to another.

It seems you are simply saying, we are not to judge the hearts of others. Paul said we are only allowed to judge a “professed” believer. He also seems to cover every aspect of humanity in these verses, do you agree?

9 There will be tribulation and distress for every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the Greek, 10 but glory and honor and peace to everyone who does good, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. 11 For there is no partiality with God. For all who have sinned without the Law will also perish without the Law, and all who have sinned under the Law will be judged by the Law; 13 for it is not the hearers of the Law who are just before God, but the doers of the Law will be justified. 14 For when Gentiles who do not have the Law do instinctively the things of the Law, these, not having the Law, are a law to themselves, 15 in that they show the work of the Law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness and their thoughts alternately accusing or else defending them, 16 on the day when, according to my gospel, God will judge the secrets of men through Christ Jesus.

 

[Nehemiah6]

Well, looking at the big picture, who decides what books should be in the Bible? Of course we can say God decides that, but how does God communicate it to humans? Did God communicate it to a group of humans? Or to each individual separately?

Let's focus on the Old Testament, which is where the CC has added 7 books. The Lord Jesus Christ (who is also God the Word) clearly stated that the Hebrew Tanakh (OT) consisted of only 24 books. He called them "all the Scriptures". That implied that none of the apocryphal (so-called Deutero-canonical) were Scripture.

LUKE 24
25 Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken: [THE PROPHETS = THE OT]
26 Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory?
27 And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.... [MOSES AND ALL THE PROPHETS = THE SCRIPTURES = THE TANAKH = THE OT]
44 And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in [1] the law of Moses [TORAH], and in [2] the prophets [NEVIIM], and in [3] the psalms [KETUVIM], concerning me.
45 Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures, [TORAH, NEVIIM, KETUVIM = THE SCRIPTURES = THE TANAKH]

There are three major divisions in the Hebrew Bible: (1) Torah (the Law) = 5 books (also called Moses or the Law of Moses), (2) Neviim (the Prophets) = 8 books, and (3) Ketuvim (the Psalms or the Writings) = 11 books. Those are now the 39 books of the Protestant Bibles (since several of them were split up).

NOW EVEN THOUGH YOU HAVE RECEIVED THE TRUTH FROM SCRIPTURE YOU WILL NOT GIVE UP YOUR CATHOLIC BIBLE. AM I CORRECT?

To put it another way, without looking at tradition, which books should be in the Bible?

As to the New Testament, Peter already identified all of Paul's epistles as well as his own as Scripture. That is 60% of the NT. Several of the other books are also shown to be divinely inspired by their writers. Indeed there are only five books in the NT which do not explicitly say that they are inspired. But they are consistent with the Scriptures, and are shown through other early Christian documents to be Scripture.

 

[Webers.Home]

.

Such a sad story, I extend loads of sympathy. My prayers are with
you!

Thank you. I appreciate your regard.
_

 

[Jackson123]

Well, how about if we say it this way

Both Jews and Muslims are correct that there is one universal God.
Jews are incorrect when they say that their scriptures teach them that Jesus is not God.
Muslims are incorrect when they say that God gave the Quran to Muhammad.

Does that sound good to you?

The specification who is God by moslim is not the same specification by Christian


For Example Christian God have a Son,His name is Jesus

Muslim God do not have a son.

So Christian God and muslim God is not the same person, prove that catholic is Lie


Catholic have thausand bible scholar they must know that It is 2 different specification

So they deliberatly Lie

They say muslim is in the plan of salvation,It mean we do not need to witness to them

It is demonic strategy to block gospel Being spread.

 

[Jackson123]

Right, I understand the words, with the help of a dictionary!
And praise God, what a wonderful message!

But when the singers sing
Tak usah
(No need)
It sounds like they leave the k off of Tak (no).

Is it like English speakers sometimes change "want to" into "wanna"?

Like "do you wanna go"?

Usualy tak or tidak prounonce what It is with the K and mean No or No need depend oN the context