If Perchance Catholicism Is Mistaken

[Dan_473]

Yes, Moving the holy men of old to believe giving the authority opening their ears. I would think without the faith of Christ that works in us, yoked with him to both will and do his good pleasure .They could not hear.

It does show they have the Spirit of Christ no of there own selves but the free gift of faith .His workings in us that can believe him not seen.

Like the Noble Bereans used to edify the new kingdom of priest after the new testament order .also used with Peter.

With all readiness of mind by Him who not only teaches us but also brings to our minds the things he has.

Acts 17:11These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

1 Peter 1:10 Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you: . . . . .(us)

They heard the inspired word of God and were moved by the Spirit of Christ in them to see if it was so. This is when God was still bringing new revelations. We now have the perfect sealed with 7 seals till the end of time.

Parable 25:2- 3 It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to search out a matter. The heaven for height, and the earth for depth, and the heart of kings is unsearchable.

Making us searchable to the world

You could say as a kingdom of Priest, ambassadors for Christ. . sent as apostles from a foreign land not of here (not under the Sun) .To those he gives the understanding. . . hid in various parables.

It may be true that God simply tells people which books or documents are scripture.

I think it's interesting that the first person who actually wrote down for the first time the list of books for the New testament that we use today was a gentleman named Athanasius. I think he was a bishop.

http://www.bible-researcher.com/canon3.html

 

[Dan_473]

To me Paul say this verse say every body know God through His creation, not in the context they worship abraham god, but in the context no excuses to do evil.

Than it may there are people that never heard about Jesus worship unknown God.

Not mean Muslim worship abraham god. Because some Muslim hear about Jesus, their prophet mohammad uncle is Christian. His wife kotijah was catholic.

If I follow your reasoning, the reason that you say that Muslims don't adore Abraham God is because they attached wrong characteristics to God.

But as we've seen, the Jews do the same thing.

 

[Dan_473]

What do you mean by tradition? Tradition of the apostle or tradition of pagan?

Well, let's talk about the Bible that you use. In the New testament section, since that's what we've been talking about, there are 27 books, probably.

So the people that published your Bible, did they pick out those 27 books themselves? Probably not. They probably used those 27 books because that's what traditionally Christians have used.

So they based it on Christian tradition.

But if you go back in time to the early Christians, it turns out they didn't arrive at that same list until about 360 or 380 a d.

 

[Dan_473]

My brother, you know the Bible very good, I do not understand why you do not have opinion if purgatory is base on the Bible or not.

Different parts of the Bible seem to talk about what happens after death differently. For example, one part says the dead are unconscious, another part talks about dead people being aware of what's going on around them.

And I'm not sure what the official Catholic teaching is on what happens after death.

 

[Dan_473]

We are Christian must concern about what happen after death. After death eternity, that is jesus want us to focus on.
Colossians 3 King James Version (KJV)

3 If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.

2 Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.

Bible also say test every Spirit or teaching.

I hope we learn to obey the Bible, like you say you die with Christ, mean you have to obey bible to test if purgatory in the Bible.

Vatican read about Jesus, heard about Jesus and reject Jesus teaching by teach purgatory.

Purgatory origin from pagan, I understand if pagan teach purgatory, because they do not know or never heard about Jesus.

Well, when we look at the Bible to see what it says about what happens after we die, write off we run into the issue of
Is the Bible intended to be interpreted by each individual separately, or by the church, the body of Christ acting as a whole.

 

[Dan_473]

That is simply a dodge. Once a Catholic rejects the fantasy of Purgatory, he would have to reject ALL THE TEACHINGS of the Catholic church and come out of Babylon. But too many would rather cling to their denominations than believe the Bible.

I suppose it would be a Dodge if I were actually practicing as a Catholic.

 

[Dan_473]

Why ireneus put john as the writer?
It may he was investigate. John die about ad 100. Ireneus put his name at ad 160

He may know apostle john when the apostle live. And he may know who wrote that letter. Or he may know from other. I do not think he is lie.

Not about purgatory, which apostle teach it, if it is apostle tradition, why not in the act.

I don't know why Irenaeus called it 1st John. Maybe he did research it.

But another issue arises. If you trust irenaeus about that, well, he leaves several other books out.
http://www.bible-researcher.com/canon3.html

 

[Dan_473]

We are Christian must concern about what happen after death. After death eternity, that is jesus want us to focus on.
Colossians 3 King James Version (KJV)

3 If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.

2 Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.

Bible also say test every Spirit or teaching.

I hope we learn to obey the Bible, like you say you die with Christ, mean you have to obey bible to test if purgatory in the Bible.

Vatican read about Jesus, heard about Jesus and reject Jesus teaching by teach purgatory.

Purgatory origin from pagan, I understand if pagan teach purgatory, because they do not know or never heard about Jesus.

I suppose another thing we could say about Protestants and Catholics is that Protestants tend to view Jesus as done speaking at the end of the book we call revelation. I think Catholics say that Jesus continues to speak through the body of Christ. So I think Catholics would say that they may have doctrines that are not talked about in the scriptures.

This reminds me of an interesting scripture
1 Corinthians 15: 29. Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead?

There's something in the Bible that nobody except Mormons practices today. And yes, I'm aware that Paul doesn't actually say to do that, but he doesn't tell the Corinthians to stop doing it either!

 

[Jackson123]

If I follow your reasoning, the reason that you say that Muslims don't adore Abraham God is because they attached wrong characteristics to God.

But as we've seen, the Jews do the same thing.

Jews do the same think, now, in Moses time jesus not come to earth yet, Jesus say about Holy Spirit in his earthly life, so if Jews before Jesus do not have clue about trinity, it is understandable

Muslim start about 600 years after Christ.

 

[Jackson123]

Well, let's talk about the Bible that you use. In the New testament section, since that's what we've been talking about, there are 27 books, probably.

So the people that published your Bible, did they pick out those 27 books themselves? Probably not. They probably used those 27 books because that's what traditionally Christians have used.

So they based it on Christian tradition.

But if you go back in time to the early Christians, it turns out they didn't arrive at that same list until about 360 or 380 a d.

Pray to Jesus is also Christian tradition, how about pray to Mary?

 

[Jackson123]

Different parts of the Bible seem to talk about what happens after death differently. For example, one part says the dead are unconscious, another part talks about dead people being aware of what's going on around them.

And I'm not sure what the official Catholic teaching is on what happens after death.

What part of the Bible teach purgatory

 

[Jackson123]

I suppose another thing we could say about Protestants and Catholics is that Protestants tend to view Jesus as done speaking at the end of the book we call revelation. I think Catholics say that Jesus continues to speak through the body of Christ. So I think Catholics would say that they may have doctrines that are not talked about in the scriptures.

This reminds me of an interesting scripture
1 Corinthians 15: 29. Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead?

There's something in the Bible that nobody except Mormons practices today. And yes, I'm aware that Paul doesn't actually say to do that, but he doesn't tell the Corinthians to stop doing it either!

I do not think Paul teach baptism for the death. Paul question about logic.

The people that baptized the death do not believe in life after death.

But baptism for the death is useless.

 

[Jackson123]

I suppose another thing we could say about Protestants and Catholics is that Protestants tend to view Jesus as done speaking at the end of the book we call revelation. I think Catholics say that Jesus continues to speak through the body of Christ. So I think Catholics would say that they may have doctrines that are not talked about in the scriptures.

This reminds me of an interesting scripture
1 Corinthians 15: 29. Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead?

There's something in the Bible that nobody except Mormons practices today. And yes, I'm aware that Paul doesn't actually say to do that, but he doesn't tell the Corinthians to stop doing it either!

And do you believe pray to Mary is the revelation after bible?

 

[garee]

It may be true that God simply tells people which books or documents are scripture.

I think it's interesting that the first person who actually wrote down for the first time the list of books for the New testament that we use today was a gentleman named Athanasius. I think he was a bishop.

http://www.bible-researcher.com/canon3.html

Yes in the same which words are inspired. . men moved by the Holy Spirit not moved by men as things seen the church , Yes Athanasius rejected the Apocrypha .

 

[Dan_473]

Jews do the same think, now, in Moses time jesus not come to earth yet, Jesus say about Holy Spirit in his earthly life, so if Jews before Jesus do not have clue about trinity, it is understandable

Muslim start about 600 years after Christ.

Well, the holy spirit is talked about in the old testament. So, in my opinion, that would not be an excuse for Jews.

Much of the rabbinical commentary on the Torah happened after Jesus walked the Earth. Yet they also continue to deny that Jesus is God. So I think they would be in the same situation as Muslims regarding Jesus, as it relates to whether or not each group adores Abraham God.

 

[Dan_473]

Jews do the same think, now, in Moses time jesus not come to earth yet, Jesus say about Holy Spirit in his earthly life, so if Jews before Jesus do not have clue about trinity, it is understandable

Muslim start about 600 years after Christ.

Also, maybe it would be good to talk about what people like Abel, Enoch, or even Abraham himself knew about God.

Were those three examples adoring Abraham God? Of course, Abraham was! What did each person know about God? What were the key characteristics that they attached to God in their minds?

 

[Dan_473]

Pray to Jesus is also Christian tradition, how about pray to Mary?

It sounds like you want to change the subject. If you don't want to talk about it anymore, that's okay, we can stop.

But if you do want to talk about it more, are you agreeing that your Bible relies on Christian tradition? That is, your Bible relies on Christian tradition for what books are included in it?

 

[Dan_473]

What part of the Bible teach purgatory

I don't know. If you are asking me to read the Bible for myself, and by myself decide what happens after we die, then you are asking me to use a Protestant approach to Bible reading and interpretation.

So it would make sense that if a person does that, they will arrive at a Protestant conclusion.

 

[Dan_473]

I do not think Paul teach baptism for the death. Paul question about logic.

The people that baptized the death do not believe in life after death.

But baptism for the death is useless.

Yes, I agree that baptism for the dead is not a good idea.

But suppose you wanted to use the Bible only. And you wanted to live and practice Christianity in a way that was as close as possible to the earliest Christians. Then it would make sense to explore ways to baptize for the Dead.

 

[Dan_473]

And do you believe pray to Mary is the revelation after bible?

I think the Catholics would probably say yes, though they might find things in the Bible that form a basis for it.

Myself I don't see a reason to ask Mary to ask Jesus for something, why not just ask Jesus directly.