I AM PUZZLED AS TO THE BIBLE BEING THE SOLE AUTHORITY OF GOD'S WORD

[John146]

I once worked with a Korean fellow. Our conversation once turned to Christianity. I asked him if he were Christian. He said no and I asked why. He asked me how he could become a Christian since there were so many Christian Churches/Denominations/Sects and they all disagreed with each other about the tenets of their Christian faith. He made a good point.

All Christians look to the Bible as their source of God's word and truth. But what good is that if all these Christians interpret the Bible and it's passages differently? I've been on this board for about a year and so many disagreements. And, after observing many/many posts on this board, with differing opinions, I've never yet to see one person change their mind about any doctrine or tenet from the Bible.

Seems that each of us has appointed ourselves, and not the Bible, as the authority on what the Bible says and teaches. Jesus prayed that we all be one and promised to send the Spirit to lead us to all truth. That's surely not happening. Why so???????????

It's kind of hard to be of "one mind" when there are more than 100 different bible versions in English alone, that use different words that have different meanings, and even contain different truths.

"Fulfil ye my joy, that ye be likeminded, having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind."

 

[JaumeJ]

Sometimes Israel is the physical Israel descended from Abraham, and other times the reference is to the eternal Israel which all who believe form part of. Usually it is easy to understand to which our Maker is referring, I believe.

ps Both Israels are of Abraham, one physically and the other Spiritually. The believers are made up of the nations and all of Abrhams descendants who believe.

 

[Dino246]

Do you think you really opened your eyes and understood all the words of the Bible? Have you never realized that you are actually blind?

I tell you that I realized this. Am I an ancient Jew, not a modern Christian?

In my own flesh, with no help from the Holy Spirit, I am indeed blind. However, with Him, I see some things clearly and He is teaching me others.

 

[Gideon300]

I once worked with a Korean fellow. Our conversation once turned to Christianity. I asked him if he were Christian. He said no and I asked why. He asked me how he could become a Christian since there were so many Christian Churches/Denominations/Sects and they all disagreed with each other about the tenets of their Christian faith. He made a good point.

All Christians look to the Bible as their source of God's word and truth. But what good is that if all these Christians interpret the Bible and it's passages differently? I've been on this board for about a year and so many disagreements. And, after observing many/many posts on this board, with differing opinions, I've never yet to see one person change their mind about any doctrine or tenet from the Bible.

Seems that each of us has appointed ourselves, and not the Bible, as the authority on what the Bible says and teaches. Jesus prayed that we all be one and promised to send the Spirit to lead us to all truth. That's surely not happening. Why so???????????

The Bible is a spiritual book for spiritual people. Unfortunately, many approach the Bible as merely information, to be assessed intellectually. People have all kinds of preconceived notions and they colour their understanding.

People are also at different places in their walk. Attitudes change as people mature.

Philippians 3:15 All of us who are mature should embrace this point of view. And if you think differently about some issue, God will reveal this to you as well.

 

[arthurfleminger]

This has nothing to do with the Bible being the sole authority as God's Word. It does have everything to do with the false beliefs and interpretations which are rampant. Genuine Christians are generally in agreement on the fundamentals of the faith. But since man-made doctrines have crept into the denominations, there are many interpretations. In any event, each individual must only give account for himself or herself.

Nemiah, you say, "Genuine Christians are generally in agreement about the fundamentals of the faith." I strongly disagree, just look at the posts on this board over the last year or so. So many disagreements......water baptism/literal or symbolic communion/pre or post trib/saved by faith alone or works working through faith............on and on..........

You use the term 'Genuine Christians'. With so many that disagree with each on other on all important issues, just who is it that determines who the 'Genuine Christians' and the Psuedo 'Christians' are? I guess you'd assume yourself to be the judge on that??????????

All reading the same Bible, all averring it is the true Word of God, yet so many disagreements as to what the Bible's Scripture means??????? If the Bible can't be interpreted correctly, how can one arrive at God's truth in the Bible.

 

[Dino246]

Nemiah, you say, "Genuine Christians are generally in agreement about the fundamentals of the faith." I strongly disagree, just look at the posts on this board over the last year or so. So many disagreements......water baptism/literal or symbolic communion/pre or post trib/saved by faith alone or works working through faith............on and on..........

It appears that you have misunderstood N6's words. The need for baptism is a generally-agreed-upon issue. The means and meaning of baptism are more controversial. Similarly, the need to take communion is generally agreed, but the means and meaning are debated.
Neither of these is actually a fundamental issue. The virgin birth, atoning death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ are fundamental.

If the Bible can't be interpreted correctly, how can one arrive at God's truth in the Bible.

It can, but not when its readers begin with their conclusions firmly in place, refuse to employ sound hermeneutical methods, or are not guided by the Holy Spirit (as in the case of unbelievers).

 

[arthurfleminger]

It appears that you have misunderstood N6's words. The need for baptism is a generally-agreed-upon issue. The means and meaning of baptism are more controversial. Similarly, the need to take communion is generally agreed, but the means and meaning are debated.
Neither of these is actually a fundamental issue. The virgin birth, atoning death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ are fundamental.


It can, but not when its readers begin with their conclusions firmly in place, refuse to employ sound hermeneutical methods, or are not guided by the Holy Spirit (as in the case of unbelievers).

Dino, I respect your post but I have the same question for you as I did for Nemiah. Nemiah says there are 'Genuine Christians' which would infer that some who consider themselves Christian are indeed, fake Christians because they don't believe the fundamentals of the faith. I asked Nemiah, who is it that determines who the 'Genuine Christians' are.

Likewise you state that Christians don't disagree with fundamental issues. And you cite a few. Well, I respectfully disagree with you too. Who is it that decides what is a Christian 'Fundamental Issue' and what is not? From your post above, you've apparently decided that you are the judge as to what is a fundamental issue and what is not???????????????? By what authority do you declare yourself to be a judge about fundamental issues of the Christian religion and Biblical Scripture?

And, BTW, whether you like it or not disagreements on Communion/Baptism/Rapture/Sola Scriptura/Sola Fideles..........on and on etc..................... are indeed fundamental issues within the Christian faith. And there is no agreement as to their Biblical interpretations.

 

[arthurfleminger]

"Let God be true but every man a liar."—Romans 3:4

Let me just say up front I do believe there has to be a standard against which doctrines are compared—that's God's inspired word, the Bible. If we stopped using it as the ultimate standard things would be even worse than they are now. At least as it is a sincere disciple can search His word himself or herself then decide for themself.

People twist the scriptures to suit their own desires, that's a given. But we have been warned. This calls for discernment.

ResidentAlien, you say, " At least as it is a sincere disciple can search His word himself or herself then decide for themself."

Once we begin deciding for ourselves what is God's Word and what is not, it no longer is God's Word, but our word and viewpoint.

 

[PennEd]

I once worked with a Korean fellow. Our conversation once turned to Christianity. I asked him if he were Christian. He said no and I asked why. He asked me how he could become a Christian since there were so many Christian Churches/Denominations/Sects and they all disagreed with each other about the tenets of their Christian faith. He made a good point.

All Christians look to the Bible as their source of God's word and truth. But what good is that if all these Christians interpret the Bible and it's passages differently? I've been on this board for about a year and so many disagreements. And, after observing many/many posts on this board, with differing opinions, I've never yet to see one person change their mind about any doctrine or tenet from the Bible.

Seems that each of us has appointed ourselves, and not the Bible, as the authority on what the Bible says and teaches. Jesus prayed that we all be one and promised to send the Spirit to lead us to all truth. That's surely not happening. Why so???????????

The answer is prophecy. God dwells outside of time, and therefore knows the end from the beginning.

His Word has NEVER been wrong. In fact, many atheists are so distraught with how accurate Books like Daniel are, they try and claim they were written after the events unfolded.

There are many verse that basically say this:


Isaiah 42:9
New King James Version


9 Behold, the former things have come to pass,
And new things I declare;
Before they spring forth I tell you of them.”

Or, all of these:

https://bible.knowing-jesus.com/topics/Predicting-The-Future

No other religious book accurately predicts the future. And certainly nothing with a 100% accuracy.

 

[JeffA]

ResidentAlien, you say, " At least as it is a sincere disciple can search His word himself or herself then decide for themself."

Once we begin deciding for ourselves what is God's Word and what is not, it no longer is God's Word, but our word and viewpoint.

I think you are making a circular argument. Yes, God's word is his own but it IS for us to discern.
We are to seek diligently for God's truth, test all things, and hold fast that which is good.

One point that is missing from this thread is:
We are being deceived, on purpose.
There are principalities at work from ancient times that are thrilled that we are broken into denominations and bicker amongst ourselves about rather trivial things. As long as we hold true to God's gift of salvation through Jesus Christ, it is okay that we discuss scripture and even disagree vehemently. That doesn't change our love for each other in truth, does it?

Just remember, when I post something, I'm always right!

 

[maxwel]

Seems that each of us has appointed ourselves, and not the Bible, as the authority on what the Bible says and teaches. Jesus prayed that we all be one and promised to send the Spirit to lead us to all truth. That's surely not happening. Why so???????????

1. So what is YOUR view on this... for yourself?

2. Are you a Christian that adheres to a particular denomination, or do you make yourself the authority on the Bible's meaning, or are you perhaps not a Christian?

3. Please explain your own view on this, and how YOU deal with it - I'm sure everyone would interested.

.

 

[posthuman]

Do you think you really opened your eyes and understood all the words of the Bible? Have you never realized that you are actually blind?

I tell you that I realized this. Am I an ancient Jew, not a modern Christian?

Recognizing that i am blind, i probably have no business telling anyone what they look like

 

[arthurfleminger]

1. So what is YOUR view on this... for yourself?

2. Are you a Christian that adheres to a particular denomination, or do you make yourself the authority on the Bible's meaning, or are you perhaps not a Christian?

3. Please explain your own view on this, and how YOU deal with it - I'm sure everyone would interested.

.

You ask for my view. Go back to the first post of this thread. My opinion is that I'm puzzled by all the Christians who claim to be Bible believing Christians but they can't agree with one another as to what the Bible means. I was just hoping someone could clear that up for me. I'm not pushing nor selling anything. But for sure, I haven't seen any good answers as to why Christians can't be one, agree with one another on the issues of the Bible. After all, didn't Jesus pray that we'd all be one and that He'd send the Holy Spirit to lead us to all truth? Well, that just didn't happen. Instead we are Christians are fractured in so many ways, so many differing beliefs and interpretations of the Bible, and so many animosities amidst fellow Christians who don't believe as other Christians do.

Just puzzled is all. I'm asking, what good is the Bible if Christians can't agree as to it's meaning?

 

[maxwel]

You ask for my view. Go back to the first post of this thread. My opinion is that I'm puzzled by all the Christians who claim to be Bible believing Christians but they can't agree with one another as to what the Bible means. I was just hoping someone could clear that up for me. I'm not pushing nor selling anything. But for sure, I haven't seen any good answers as to why Christians can't be one, agree with one another on the issues of the Bible. After all, didn't Jesus pray that we'd all be one and that He'd send the Holy Spirit to lead us to all truth? Well, that just didn't happen. Instead we are Christians are fractured in so many ways, so many differing beliefs and interpretations of the Bible, and so many animosities amidst fellow Christians who don't believe as other Christians do.

Just puzzled is all. I'm asking, what good is the Bible if Christians can't agree as to it's meaning?

You didn't really answer my question, so maybe I wasn't clear.

1. Are you a Christian yourself?

2. How have YOU dealt with this issue in your own personal life.
A. Are you part of a denomination that has particular views?
B. Or do you just rely on yourself, and make up your own views and doctrines?



.

 

[Amanuensis]

I once worked with a Korean fellow. Our conversation once turned to Christianity. I asked him if he were Christian. He said no and I asked why. He asked me how he could become a Christian since there were so many Christian Churches/Denominations/Sects and they all disagreed with each other about the tenets of their Christian faith. He made a good point.

All Christians look to the Bible as their source of God's word and truth. But what good is that if all these Christians interpret the Bible and it's passages differently? I've been on this board for about a year and so many disagreements. And, after observing many/many posts on this board, with differing opinions, I've never yet to see one person change their mind about any doctrine or tenet from the Bible.

Seems that each of us has appointed ourselves, and not the Bible, as the authority on what the Bible says and teaches. Jesus prayed that we all be one and promised to send the Spirit to lead us to all truth. That's surely not happening. Why so???????????

If you think about it, most of the evangelical churches agree on the main tenets of faith, Jesus, salvation etc.

They differ in other details and usually it is about the proper interpretation of a scripture.

But the fact that they agree on so much is a testimony that the Bible is not so complicated to understand when it comes to the most important parts that apply to our salvation.

Therefore I am skeptical not of the Bible but of those who find fault based only on the fact that not everyone agrees on every single thing. To ignore the fact that we agree on so much of it seems to be disingenuous and demonstrates that there could be a naturally wicked spirit of fault finding at work.

To insist that everyone agree on every little thing is not necessary.

Who made that the rule of authenticity?

 

[Dino246]

By what authority do you declare yourself to be a judge about fundamental issues of the Christian religion and Biblical Scripture?

Right back atcha...

Communion/Baptism/Rapture/Sola Scriptura/Sola Fideles... are indeed fundamental issues within the Christian faith.

You are the victim of your own criticism... or to put it more bluntly, a hypocrite.

And, BTW, whether you like it or not disagreements on Communion/Baptism/Rapture/Sola Scriptura/Sola Fideles..........on and on etc..................... are indeed fundamental issues within the Christian faith. And there is no agreement as to their Biblical interpretations.

I suspect it's just poor wording on your part, but it appears that you have provided the answer to your own question.

 

[Blik]

Actually, 30,000 denominations is a conservative number. Some place it much higher: HOW MANY CHURCHES AND DENOMINATIONS ARE THERE IN AMERICA AND THE WORLD? - The Complete Pilgrim - Religious Travel Sites

How many denominations there are does not affect the truth of the Lord.

 

[Mitaze1075]

I once worked with a Korean fellow. Our conversation once turned to Christianity. I asked him if he were Christian. He said no and I asked why. He asked me how he could become a Christian since there were so many Christian Churches/Denominations/Sects and they all disagreed with each other about the tenets of their Christian faith. He made a good point.

All Christians look to the Bible as their source of God's word and truth. But what good is that if all these Christians interpret the Bible and it's passages differently? I've been on this board for about a year and so many disagreements. And, after observing many/many posts on this board, with differing opinions, I've never yet to see one person change their mind about any doctrine or tenet from the Bible.

Seems that each of us has appointed ourselves, and not the Bible, as the authority on what the Bible says and teaches. Jesus prayed that we all be one and promised to send the Spirit to lead us to all truth. That's surely not happening. Why so???????????

Well there are a few issues. First of all which Bible? There has been several different bibles. Before Christianity was even here there was several different Jewish collections of scriptures. Not only were there different collections or books , but there was also different versions and lengths of those books. One of the newest versions is the Protestant bible. That’s a collection decided on by some white Germans fairly recently in history. We also have different bibles and collections of scriptures than found in the deutercannonical bibles, the dead sea scrolls, the Coptic bible and the orthodox collections.

Additionally, even in common Protestant bibles we see things like the book of Jasher and Enoch mentioned along with Jude possibly alluding to the assumptions of Moses.

Then once you get past that issue there is the issue of translation. Different versions translate things slightly different in order to favor their dominate theological views.

Then once you get past even that. Even if we all agreed on the same translation of the same collections there is the issue of us as modern American readers trying to understand the cultural aspect , and genre type of scripture. Modern readers try to make the entire Bible one seamless literal story and that’s just not possible. We see edited seams throughout the Bible that seems to have came from multiple traditions. For example genesis 1 and 2 are very different creation accounts. Things are on different ways and in different orders and the earth does from a watery deep void to a dry and desert like world. So all of that plays a major role.

There are two dominating forces at work also on scriptural reading. The layman’s genre rejecting an culturally ignorant view of concordist and the scholarly , genre and culturally sensitive interpretation of accommodationists.

There are a lot of echo chambers that results in people only hearing one way their entire life. They never bother to pick up books that differ from their understanding in order to try to develop a better understanding. We also see a lot of scripture weaponized in order to harm innocent bystanders.

 

[Mitaze1075]

You ask for my view. Go back to the first post of this thread. My opinion is that I'm puzzled by all the Christians who claim to be Bible believing Christians but they can't agree with one another as to what the Bible means. I was just hoping someone could clear that up for me. I'm not pushing nor selling anything. But for sure, I haven't seen any good answers as to why Christians can't be one, agree with one another on the issues of the Bible. After all, didn't Jesus pray that we'd all be one and that He'd send the Holy Spirit to lead us to all truth? Well, that just didn't happen. Instead we are Christians are fractured in so many ways, so many differing beliefs and interpretations of the Bible, and so many animosities amidst fellow Christians who don't believe as other Christians do.

Just puzzled is all. I'm asking, what good is the Bible if Christians can't agree as to it's meaning?

Dont worry. They do this often. Sometimes it’s hard to find a safe place to ask questions. There are different Christian forums out there. There are two other forums that I like to pose questions to as well. It allows for a greater range of opinions that you can work on evaluating.

One is the BioLogos forums.
https://discourse.biologos.org/c/open-forum/17

Another is Peaceful Science.
https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/

Each forum , including this one, has pros and cons. But it’s good to have a wide range of acts to organize through.

 

[Nehemiah6]

There are two dominating forces at work also on scriptural reading. The layman’s genre rejecting an culturally ignorant view of concordist and the scholarly , genre and culturally sensitive interpretation of accommodationists.

This is typical liberal theological nonsense. Since you've identified as an evolutionist, it all fits together.

So what God expects is spiritual discernment taught by the Holy Spirit to the "unlearned" (and all the apostles were unlearned men, other than Paul, who was a former Pharisee). The majority of "scholars" are actually engaged in undermining the plain truths and doctrines of Scripture. Beware of scholar worship and pseudo-scholarship.

Getting back to the OP, the poster should be informed that Christians forums are generally battlegrounds where lies are opposed to truth, and truth is opposed to lies. This is all a part of the spiritual warfare that originates in the spirit realm. It does not reflect on the nature of the Word of God.