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J

JesusIsAll

Guest
Why do you bring up this 'issue' of 'denominations' and want to 'defend' yours? Will it make a difference that yours is 'just' to be in the 'top ten' or higher than them?

In order to stop you from carrying on mistakenly 'boasting' about your 'denomination' or from one, please as 'an unworthy friend', let me remind you that in the book of Revelation the churches didn't go by any of these fancy names created of denomination today and witnessing themselves to others, though over the years these we have 'adopted' through 'men', 'counterfeits' in churches and given a 'position'.
The very concept of doctrines is flawed, the diseased roots of many denominations. There is only truth and error, only the whole gospel truth, as laid down in the inspired, God-breathed scripture of our Bible, only truth versus error. The bottom line, anything whatsoever that conflicts with scripture is false, a lie, may as well be "scripture" from the devil. There is nothing in between, no Baskin Robbins 31 flavors of truth: that's a delusion. The cult false prophets who've added to the word of God aside, not understanding the whole gospel is neither an excuse for a denomination. There is only doctrine, not doctrines. And people get things wrong, not the Holy Spirit, the pressing question arising as to how one could possibly believe the Holy Spirit would be failing so many believers, believers of another gospel?

Galatians 1:6-9 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
 
Feb 7, 2013
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The very concept of doctrines is flawed, the diseased roots of many denominations. There is only truth and error, only the whole gospel truth, as laid down in the inspired, God-breathed scripture of our Bible, only truth versus error. The bottom line, anything whatsoever that conflicts with scripture is false, a lie, may as well be "scripture" from the devil. There is nothing in between, no Baskin Robbins 31 flavors of truth: that's a delusion. The cult false prophets who've added to the word of God aside, not understanding the whole gospel is neither an excuse for a denomination. There is only doctrine, not doctrines. And people get things wrong, not the Holy Spirit, the pressing question arising as to how one could possibly believe the Holy Spirit would be failing so many believers, believers of another gospel?

Galatians 1:6-9 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
As it is written;

"Grace has been shown onto you and therefore show Grace onto others."

Church/a gathering is important, as GOD through CHRIST and the HOLY SPIRIT, want us not to give up 'gathering together' in worship, by putting away our differences and disagreements aside, when they have been already 'highlighted'. In whatever 'denomination' we may come from, we must remain in through the 'Agape' New Covenant Spiritual knowledge, be 'faithful' and 'graceful' towards one another. For we have been shown that Grace by GOD the FATHER of our LORD JESUS CHRIST and through the HOLY SPIRIT, before and even now.

My message to 'sir gotime' and others is not to be too 'drawn' to denominations and their practices and justification. The HOLY BIBLE Scripture and especially the New Covenant does that, in order to distinguish between the 'spirit of error' and the 'spirit of truth'. i am out of 'denominations' because GOD's Word keep 'bubbling' in me about the wrong things that are happening there. At one point, i couldn't hold this 'bubbling' in me, that i had to let them out. Reluctantly, i ask GOD to give a sign that these were from HIM, an opportunity, Scripture quotes about the matters HE wants to highlight and the Pastor must give a permission for others to speak.

It truly happened, and with 'trembling', i was only able to give the Scripture quotes and ask for them to read. After they read, they still didn't 'perceive' them, as the LORD of the Holy Scripture spoke. They ignored CHRIST's message and continued as usual and also ignored me. i felt alone and out of place and had to leave boldly while hiding my trembling inside. They have not reached out to me ever since, but i forgive them and miss them and love them to know CHRIST even better.

i myself did not go back because i do not want them to be 'uncomfortable' seeing me again. i am nothing like Prophet Jeremiah that day, but i have been given a 'duty' like him. That's when later GOD placed me in this forum to learn and build up HIS people, 'like' my children, for HE did not give me with my wife, any, as well HE did in Jeremiah's.

Please i am putting myself as a servant to you all in my 'testimony' and not otherwise. When i doubted this, GOD keeps on reminding me Jeremiah's life according to the written Scripture strongly and also slightly about the other Prophets, all they, even CHRIST, had to 'encounter' and 'bear', while dealing with the 'leaders' of Israel who constantly challenge, punish persecuted them.

We only are able to help and continue with those who believe in our 'testimony' of GOD's Covenant that we are 'violating' and dishonoring CHRIST's word/teaching and in 'lawlessness' and 'witnessing' in a 'stained' garment. And we are together, 'ever learning and never come into the knowledge of the truth.'

When GOD's correction comes upon HIS Church, it doesn't mean they are condemn, no, but HE love them as a Spiritual parent, and they 'do not' be 'discouraged' but 'encouraged', for they 'abide' in HIS Word. They are written in Hebrews chapter 12.

GOD bless you all in the name of LORD JESUS CHRIST.
 
T

TangerineEarth

Guest
We shall be resurrected and reign with Jesus for 1000 years.
Where will we reign with Jesus for the 1000 years?

Thank you and God bless!
 
J

Jasher

Guest
Precisely - who is Jesus?
 
Mar 23, 2014
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Why you keep Sabbath if Jesus nailed it in the cross. Paul tell the colosians "no one judge you about Sabbaths"

and adventists start Sabbath on Friday like Jews?
 
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phil112

Guest
Hi Muskokaman, thanx for the questions.
You asked about the Sabbath. I celebrate the 7th day Sabbath as found in the 4th commandment.

Exo 20:8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
......................
That didn't take long. You revealed your shortcomings with the first sentence of the first answer to the first question.
One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind. He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it.
God never made the law for gentiles, and the jews He did make it for are long dead, so why are you clinging to it?

Perfect example of why you get no questions about the bible from me - most of them you can't answer, and the ones you could you don't even understand the bible enough to do so.
 
S

sparkman

Guest
The Ten Commandments are a summary of the Old Covenant
Exodus 34:28 “So he was there with the Lord forty days and forty nights. He neither ate bread nor drank water. And he wrote on the tablets the word of the covenant, the Ten Commandments.
Exodus 31:18 “And he gave to Moses when he had finished speaking with him on Mount Sinai, the two tablets of the testimony, tablets of stone, written with the finger of God.
Deut 4:13 “And he declared to you his covenant, which he commanded you to perform, that is, the Ten Commandments, and he wrote them on two tablets of stone”.
Deut 9:9 “When I went up the mountain to receive the tablets of stone, the tablets of the covenant that the Lord made with you.”
Deut 9:11 “And at the end of forty days and forty nights the Lord gave me the two tablets of stone, the tablets of the covenant.”
The Old Covenant was an agreement between God and Israel, not God and Christians
Ex 31:12-17 And the Lord said to Moses, “You are to speak to the people of Israel and say, ‘Above all you shall keep my Sabbaths, for this is a sign between me and you throughout your generations, that you may know that I, the Lord, sanctify you. You shall keep the Sabbath, because it is holy to you. Everyone who profanes it shall be put to death. Whoever does any work on it, that soul shall be cut off from among his people. Six days shall work be done, but the seventh day is a Sabbath of solemn rest, holy to the Lord. Whoever does any work on the Sabbath day shall be put to death. Therefore the people of Israel shall keep the Sabbath, observing the Sabbath throughout their generations, as a covenant forever. It is a sign forever between me and the people of Israel that in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested and was refreshed.”
The Old Covenant is no longer in effect for ANYONE
Heb 8:13-9:4 In speaking of a new covenant, he makes the first one obsolete. And what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away. Now even the first covenant had regulations for worship and an earthly place of holiness. For a tent was prepared, the first section, in which were the lampstand and the table, and the bread of the Presence. It is called the Holy Place. Behind the second curtain was a second section called the Most Holy Place, having the golden altar of incense and the ark of the covenant covered on all sides with gold, in which was a golden urn holding the manna, and Aaron’s staff that budded, and the tablets of the covenant.
Gal 3:17 This is what I mean: the law, which came 430 years afterwards, does not annul a covenant previously ratified by God, so as to make the promise void.
Gal 3:19 Why then the law? It was added because of transgressions, until the offspring should come to whom the promise had been made, and it was put in place through angels by an intermediary.
Gal 3:24 So the law was our guardian until Christ came, in order that we might be justified by faith
Gal 3:25 But now that faith is come, we are no longer under a guardian
2 Cor 3:4-18 Such is the confidence that we have through Christ toward God. Not that we are sufficient in ourselves to claim anything as coming from us, but our sufficiency is from God, who has made us sufficient to be ministers of a new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit. For the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life. Now if the ministry of death, carved in letters on stone, came with such glory that the Israelites could not gaze at Moses’ face because of its glory, which was being brought to an end, will not the ministry of the Spirit have even much more glory? For if there was glory in the ministry of condemnation, the ministry of righteousness must far exceed it in glory. Indeed, in this case, what once had glory has come to have no glory at all, because of the glory that surpasses it. For if what was being brought to an end came with glory, much more will what is permanent have glory. Since we have such a hope, we are very bold, not like Moses, who would put a veil over his face so that the Israelites might not gaze at the outcome of what was being brought to an end. But their minds were hardened. For to this day, when they read the old covenant, that same veil remains unlifted, because only through Christ is it taken away. Yes, to this day whenever Moses is read a veil lies over their hearts. But when one turns to the Lord, the veil is removed. Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom. And we all with unveiled face, beholding the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from one degree of glory to another. For this comes from the Lord who is the Spirit.
The Sabbath, as part of the Old Covenant, is not in affect for ANYONE
Gal 4:10 You observe days and months and seasons and years! I am afraid I may have labored over you in vain.
Rom 14:5-6 One person esteems one day as better than another, while another esteems all days alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind.
Col 2:16-17 Therefore let no one pass judgment on you in questions of food and drink, or with regard to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath. These are a shadow of the things to come, but the substance belongs to Christ
Jesus is our Sabbath or spiritual rest, and we enter into that spiritual rest by placing our faith in Him
Matt 11:28-30 Come to me, all who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you, and lean from me, for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls.
Heb 4:1-8 Therefore, while the promise of entering his rest still stands, let us fear lest any of you should seem to have failed to reach it. For good news came to us just as to them, but the message they heard did not benefit them, because they were not united by faith with those who listened. For we who have believed enter that rest, as he has said, “As I swore in my wrath, They shall not enter my rest. “ although his works were finished from the foundation of the world. For he has somewhere spoken of the seventh day in this way: “And God rested on the seventh day from all his works.” And again in this passage he said, “They shall not enter my rest.”. Since therefore it remains for some to enter it, and those who formerly received the good news failed to enter because of disobedience, again he appoints a certain day, “Today”, saying through David so long afterward, in the words already quoted. “Today, if you hear his voice, do not harden your hearts.” For if Joshua had not given them rest, God would not have spoken of another day later on. So then there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God, for whoever has entered God’s rest has also rested from is works as God did from his. Let us therefore strive to enter that rest, so that no one may fall by the same sort of disobedience.
Christians are under the New Covenant, which has much higher demands and different commandments
Luke 22:20 And likewise the cup after they had eaten, saying, “This cup that is poured out for you is the new covenant in my blood.”
Heb 9:15 Therefore, he is the mediator of a new covenant, so that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance, since a death has occurred that redeems them from the transgressions committed under the first covenant.
Jn 13:34 A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another: just as I have loved you, you also are to love one another.
Jn 15:12 This is my commandment, that you love one another as I have loved you.
Jn 15:17 These things I command you, so that you will love one another
Rom 13:10 Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.
 
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sparkman

Guest
Here is a book that readers might review in this regard, called Lying for God. It is about the Seventh Day Adventist church.

http://trishs.net/LYING%20FOR%20GOD%20-%207th%20Edition%20-%20July%2017%202012%20Revision%20-%20PDF.pdf

Personally I don't trust them much as an organization, although I have met some very nice people who are SDA. I received flyers announcing Bible studies by them, where they failed to identify their denominational affiliation. That indicates some level of deceptive behavior on their part. I talked to a Seventh Day Adventist friend about this and he admitted that they do in fact practice this sort of thing because they know they have a reputation as a cult.

In addition, the Church's official position is that those who fail to keep the Saturday Sabbath in the end times are under the mark of the Beast and will lose their salvation.

I also wonder if anyone who presses the Sabbathkeeping issue really understands justification by grace alone through faith alone in Jesus Christ alone.
 
Dec 19, 2015
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Can I share with u my Sabbath/ Sunday essay? I also think of it as my "Sunday" declaration.
 
Oct 21, 2015
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Christians are told to follow after the holy spirit, not the written code( rom7:6)

Why do seventh day Adventists follow after the written code?
 
Dec 19, 2015
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Christians are told to follow after the holy spirit, not the written code( rom7:6)

Why do seventh day Adventists follow after the written code?
Friend; I wrote a Sabbath/ Sunday essay. Would u care to see it?
 

fredoheaven

Senior Member
Nov 17, 2015
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Ok this one is a big one. big as in there is a lot of ground to cover if you go into it enough. I will try to keep it shorter than It can be.

Lets look at where Michael shows up in scripture and what we can learn about Him. but first lets us acknowledge the name.

Michael the name means "(one) who is like God"

There is a lot of confusion on archangels and Michael due to many different sources. here we will only acknowledge what the Bible says about it. lets start with passages that actually mention Michael.

/QUOTE]

I just don't know if someone addresses this one. Yes I put scriptures above man's opinion.
 

fredoheaven

Senior Member
Nov 17, 2015
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Dan 10:12 Then said he unto me, Fear not, Daniel: for from the first day that thou didst set thine heart to understand, and to chasten thyself before thy God, thy words were heard, and I am come for thy words.
Dan 10:13 But the prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me one and twenty days: but, lo, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me; and I remained there with the kings of Persia.
Herein the Bible speaks clearly of Michael as “one of the chief princes”, hence one of the head messenger who help the lesser angel for having a three (3) weeks fight with the “prince of Persia”. The phrase “one of” implies two or more are involved leaders of the angels. This could not be well said to Christ, for even the angels are subject to Christ.
 

fredoheaven

Senior Member
Nov 17, 2015
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Dan 10:20 Then said he, Knowest thou wherefore I come unto thee? and now will I return to fight with the prince of Persia: and when I am gone forth, lo, the prince of Grecia shall come.
Dan 10:21 But I will shew thee that which is noted in the scripture of truth: and there is none that holdeth with me in these things, but Michael your prince.

Notice here that Michael is one of the chief princes. chief means first, head, boss man. while prince means leader, Lord, Master etc. this indicates that Michael is in line for the throne. we also see him working behind the scenes with Gabriel to ensure that God's will actually occurs.
Michael is called in the book of Daniel as “your prince” but not the Prince. He may be called “lord” but not the Lord of lords and true enough Michael is never mention of being the King. For there’s only one true “King of kings and Lord of lords” that is our Lord Jesus Christ.
Notice also, the emphasis on the meaning of the word “prince” which means “…Lord, Master etc.” thusdenoting a deity. A son of God(saved, saint) is distinguished from the Son of God (Christ, a Deity). A “lord” (servant like Abraham) is further distinguished from the Lord or LORD (Deity).

Isa 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
1Ti 6:15 Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords;
Rev 17:14 These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful.
Rev 19:16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KINGOF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.
 
I

Imsaved

Guest
Hello how are you? What is new?
 

fredoheaven

Senior Member
Nov 17, 2015
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here again:

Dan 12:1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.
Dan 12:2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.
Dan 12:3 And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever.

Now he is called the GREAT prince. this even further upholds this Michael in high regard and authority.

Now notice that when this Michael stand up the time of trouble starts and God's people are delivered. Why when Michael stands up? why not God? why not Jesus? and why is Michael described as the one who stands as protector for the children of thy people?
So here again, is the emphasis of the word “GREAT (a pagan deity?) prince” where in fact is Michael “the great prince”. Well, Michael is said to be “great prince” because of his role but not “the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ.”
Act 19:28 And when they heard these sayings, they were full of wrath, and cried out, saying, Great is Diana of the Ephesians.
Act 19:34 But when they knew that he was a Jew, all with one voice about the space of two hours cried out, Great is Diana of the Ephesians.
Titus 2:13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;
Noticed that there’s really no big trouble when “Michael stands up…which standeth” for the children of Israel because that was his intended job. that is his ministry given by God. Why not God and why not Jesus? Actually, God is still in control of everything and the above statement put limits the nature of God. I still remember when Christ says at the cross of Calvary when He said, “My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me”. If not for Christ death atonement for our sins, he will even ask one of his angel who can smite many people in a single night.
2Ki 19:35 And it came to pass that night, that the angel of the LORD went out, and smote in the camp of the Assyrians an hundred fourscore and five thousand: and when they arose early in the morning, behold, they were all dead corpses
Isa 37:36Then the angel of the LORD went forth, and smote in the camp of the Assyrians a hundred and fourscore and five thousand: and when they arose early in the morning, behold, they were all dead corpses.
 

fredoheaven

Senior Member
Nov 17, 2015
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Jud 1:9 Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.

Now we see Michael confronting Satan when Moses was resurrected. why would God send an angel to confront Satan? I would like to note something here.

Archangel is a misunderstood term. mostly because people do not understand Greek. Angel means messenger and arch means head. so the term hear means head messenger. or leader of the angels.
Clear as crystal, Michael according to scripture is the archangel hence a head messenger or the chief angel nothing less nothing more. Yes, we really don’t need to understand the Greek in this case to understand the English
 

fredoheaven

Senior Member
Nov 17, 2015
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another thing notice that Michael says to the devil, "The Lord rebuke thee." This term is one that is only found in one other place in the Bible and it is God himself speaking. This makes sense being that there is none higher in which to speak of.

Zec 3:2 And the LORD said unto Satan, The LORD rebuke thee, O Satan; even the LORD that hath chosen Jerusalem rebuke thee: is not this a brand plucked out of the fire?

If you read around this text it is clear that something similar is being portrayed. Joshua is standing before God and Satan comes to stop God from taking Joshua as His own. but God says "The Lord rebuke thee" This was a vision. but notice the parallels We have someone who is on our side who stands for us. and satan who stands against us. who other than Jesus stands for us?

/QUOTE]

Michael as a messenger of God carries the message of God. The instances of Zechariah are that direct saying of God to Satan while the angel of the LORD stands before Joshua, the high priest. In Jude, however, it is Michael the archangel said to the devil as it is. The scripture says, it’s Michael not God himself. Question is, Is Michael not able to relay what God have said? Yes he surely can. He did carry the same message of God “The Lord rebuke thee”.