How the Pre-Trib Rapture Became Popular in the Modern Church
- Thread starter Aaron56
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
OK, i am repeating this so as there is no misunderstanding what i am saying.
All throughout Revelation - You can't see Them? (remember you told me 'word' study is important)
Word Study Clues to look for: He who overcomes, and they overcame, saints, brethren
Oh, and please do not forget this word study from our Lord in Matt 23
O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets and stones those sent to her, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were unwilling! Look, your house is left to you desolate.
For I tell you that you will not see Me again until you say, ‘Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord.’
Please, when u can, read Matt ch 23 as it pertains to this discussion and Revelation.
All Scripture builds upon Itself to give to us a clear picture and understanding
All throughout Revelation - You can't see Them? (remember you told me 'word' study is important)
Word Study Clues to look for: He who overcomes, and they overcame, saints, brethren
Oh, and please do not forget this word study from our Lord in Matt 23
O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets and stones those sent to her, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were unwilling! Look, your house is left to you desolate.
For I tell you that you will not see Me again until you say, ‘Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord.’
Please, when u can, read Matt ch 23 as it pertains to this discussion and Revelation.
All Scripture builds upon Itself to give to us a clear picture and understanding
Bear with me in His Love here now and don't jump to conclusion in what i am saying - this is an important moment.
Discounting whom our Lord LOVES (you, me and the saints) is at the root of error.
When you said 'i don't see the church after chapter 3' = you discount what Christ did on the cross for those in Revelation who are His and are known to Him as 'to him who overcomes', 'they overcame', the 'saints' and 'brethren'.
Dwell on this - this is very very very serious.
Discounting whom our Lord LOVES (you, me and the saints) is at the root of error.
When you said 'i don't see the church after chapter 3' = you discount what Christ did on the cross for those in Revelation who are His and are known to Him as 'to him who overcomes', 'they overcame', the 'saints' and 'brethren'.
Dwell on this - this is very very very serious.
Not exactly.
We still differ in parts (where you're misunderstanding what I'd put).
The text (Acts 3:21) says, "until the TIMES of..." ... which isn't talking about its commencing only at the point in time of His "RETURN" to the earth Rev19 (but even prior to that--starting from the moment when He Himself will "Descend" TO "the meeting" [of the Lord] "IN THE AIR" where WE / the Church which is His body ONLY will be "caught up" i.e. "OUR episynagoges UNTO HIM" [and NO ONE ELSE]).
You don't believe the remnant of Israel will come to faith in Christ only AT the point in time of His RETURN to the earth (Rev19), do you?
(for at THAT point, it will be "too late"... And even Hosea 5:14-6:3 states otherwise, when it says, "IN THEIR AFFLICTION, they will seek Me EARLY"; And Micah 5:3 states [of them], "Therefore will he give them up, UNTIL the time that she which travaileth [<--identifying her] hath brought forth [<--not "Baby Jesus" here]: THEN the remnant of his brethren [<--see also Rev12:17 "remnant of her seed"] shall return unto the children of Israel"; and Isa27:9[12-13] corresponding to Rom11:27 [Matt24:29-31, i.e. this being the conclusion of the matter, not when they "come to faith" in Christ]; etc etc...)
We still differ in parts (where you're misunderstanding what I'd put).
The text (Acts 3:21) says, "until the TIMES of..." ... which isn't talking about its commencing only at the point in time of His "RETURN" to the earth Rev19 (but even prior to that--starting from the moment when He Himself will "Descend" TO "the meeting" [of the Lord] "IN THE AIR" where WE / the Church which is His body ONLY will be "caught up" i.e. "OUR episynagoges UNTO HIM" [and NO ONE ELSE]).
You don't believe the remnant of Israel will come to faith in Christ only AT the point in time of His RETURN to the earth (Rev19), do you?
(for at THAT point, it will be "too late"... And even Hosea 5:14-6:3 states otherwise, when it says, "IN THEIR AFFLICTION, they will seek Me EARLY"; And Micah 5:3 states [of them], "Therefore will he give them up, UNTIL the time that she which travaileth [<--identifying her] hath brought forth [<--not "Baby Jesus" here]: THEN the remnant of his brethren [<--see also Rev12:17 "remnant of her seed"] shall return unto the children of Israel"; and Isa27:9[12-13] corresponding to Rom11:27 [Matt24:29-31, i.e. this being the conclusion of the matter, not when they "come to faith" in Christ]; etc etc...)
O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets and stones those sent to her, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were unwilling! Look, your house is left to you desolate.
For I tell you that you will not see Me again until you say, ‘Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord.’ Matt 23
You wouldn't twist the words of the Lord - would you?
For I tell you that you will not see Me again until you say, ‘Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord.’ Matt 23
You wouldn't twist the words of the Lord - would you?
The same place the church was before Rev 3.
Those who still live on earth are on earth. Those who have died are in heaven.
In the NT “Church” is synonymous with “saints”, “elect”, “chosen” , "Christian" or "servant".
In the first Chapter of Rev, we are called servants. Some NT books don't contain the word [ekklesia] church.
There are however, synonomous terms & clear references. We don't read these in a vacuum apart from the
context of the rest of scripture. Other terms used for the church are -the body of christ, beloved, fellow servants & brethren.
Saints are mentioned 13 times from Chapters 5-20 of Revelation.
Rev 5:8 & Rev 8:3-4 prayers from the church on earth are heard in heaven.
Jesus tells us the Revelation message is for The Churches at the end of the book in Chapter 22.
Those who still live on earth are on earth. Those who have died are in heaven.
In the NT “Church” is synonymous with “saints”, “elect”, “chosen” , "Christian" or "servant".
In the first Chapter of Rev, we are called servants. Some NT books don't contain the word [ekklesia] church.
There are however, synonomous terms & clear references. We don't read these in a vacuum apart from the
context of the rest of scripture. Other terms used for the church are -the body of christ, beloved, fellow servants & brethren.
Saints are mentioned 13 times from Chapters 5-20 of Revelation.
Rev 5:8 & Rev 8:3-4 prayers from the church on earth are heard in heaven.
Jesus tells us the Revelation message is for The Churches at the end of the book in Chapter 22.
-
1
-
1
- Show all
but it's too late for me to delete it now. 
You are under the illusion that your posts have some value in terms of edifying scholarship. They don't. They are pretty much an unintelligible incoherent mess.
On the other hand, "Mr. Twister" aka TheDivineWatermark is producing stellar posts of the finest quality in terms of scholarship and accurate understanding of the whole counsel of God. I must have dozens and dozens and dozens of his posts bookmarked.....worth their weight in gold.
It appears to me the post tribbers have taken the wrong fork in the road. And then another one and another one and another one. And then they are left in the deep dark woods of Biblical ignorance. The only way out is to carefully retrace your steps and get back to where you started. And then do it all over again.
On the other hand, "Mr. Twister" aka TheDivineWatermark is producing stellar posts of the finest quality in terms of scholarship and accurate understanding of the whole counsel of God. I must have dozens and dozens and dozens of his posts bookmarked.....worth their weight in gold.
It appears to me the post tribbers have taken the wrong fork in the road. And then another one and another one and another one. And then they are left in the deep dark woods of Biblical ignorance. The only way out is to carefully retrace your steps and get back to where you started. And then do it all over again.
-
1
- Show all
What are you talking about?
They "SAY" this prior to His "RETURN" to the earth Rev19.
See my posts also about the parallels between this phrase "not see me... until" ^ as used elsewhere in Scripture and how it is used in that case (as a TYPE)... and what all that shows.
IOW, it seems to me that you are suggesting that they "SAY" this at the precise moment of His "RETURN" to the earth in Rev19, like, AS THEY "SEE" Him COMING (and we're talking, the believing remnant... not those who will "mourn" at that point), is this what you are thinking?
I'm saying, it's not then, but that they "say" this PRIOR to that point (and recall what I'd said previously about this "G3708" word [translated here as "shall you see [active G3708]," in this text--SAME word as used in Acts 22:14 & 15, regarding Paul... about Jesus... (but while Jesus was still UP IN HEAVEN, having already previously ascended, at that point)])
They "SAY" this prior to His "RETURN" to the earth Rev19.
See my posts also about the parallels between this phrase "not see me... until" ^ as used elsewhere in Scripture and how it is used in that case (as a TYPE)... and what all that shows.
IOW, it seems to me that you are suggesting that they "SAY" this at the precise moment of His "RETURN" to the earth in Rev19, like, AS THEY "SEE" Him COMING (and we're talking, the believing remnant... not those who will "mourn" at that point), is this what you are thinking?
I'm saying, it's not then, but that they "say" this PRIOR to that point (and recall what I'd said previously about this "G3708" word [translated here as "shall you see [active G3708]," in this text--SAME word as used in Acts 22:14 & 15, regarding Paul... about Jesus... (but while Jesus was still UP IN HEAVEN, having already previously ascended, at that point)])
Lol......Lucy that is as close to non-answer as is conceivable. Which under the circumstances is entirely understandable.
Okay here's another question: Who does the Bible say is doing the preaching....after the seals are broken?
And an ancillary question to the above: Has the great commission to the Church been abandoned after the seals have been opened? Because there is zero evidence that the Church is doing any preaching in that span of time.......or is it anywhere to be found for that matter.
Okay here's another question: Who does the Bible say is doing the preaching....after the seals are broken?
And an ancillary question to the above: Has the great commission to the Church been abandoned after the seals have been opened? Because there is zero evidence that the Church is doing any preaching in that span of time.......or is it anywhere to be found for that matter.
-
1
- Show all
Another interesting note......the term Lord is used something like 90 times in the book of Acts. The terms Savior is used twice I think. And in every case in all of the NT the terms are always in the order of first Lord and then Savior.
The point is that Jesus must be received firstly as Lord, the commander the one who has sovereign authority the one who is in control. No Lordship no salvation.
The point is that Jesus must be received firstly as Lord, the commander the one who has sovereign authority the one who is in control. No Lordship no salvation.
TheDivineWatermark is producing stellar posts of the finest quality in terms of scholarship and accurate understanding of the whole counsel of God.
And thus the birth of a new religion - go for it -
i will stay with the lowly Scripture and the and the lowly Dove that descended upon my Lord and that lives in me.
And thus the birth of a new religion - go for it -
i will stay with the lowly Scripture and the and the lowly Dove that descended upon my Lord and that lives in me.