^ @DavidTree , so you have absolutely no answer to what the word "firstfruit" is in reference to... I see.
["avoidance"... your standard "M.O."
]
["avoidance"... your standard "M.O."
]
How the Pre-Trib Rapture Became Popular in the Modern Church
- Thread starter Aaron56
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am i though.............
^ @DavidTree , I'm not seeing your "answer"
oh my oh dear what a funny thing
yet there is no record of Him saying such bling
ring-ring, ring-ring, ding-a-ling
God never said such a thing
let it be known
how this thing has grown
from satan's laire
to spiders in your ear
when trouble comes around
you will still be on the ground
will you stand the test
when pre-trib falls from your chest
yet there is no record of Him saying such bling
ring-ring, ring-ring, ding-a-ling
God never said such a thing
let it be known
how this thing has grown
from satan's laire
to spiders in your ear
when trouble comes around
you will still be on the ground
will you stand the test
when pre-trib falls from your chest
i do not accuse the Brethren - pre-trib is a lie from satan = this is fact
You all, have had 3 months now to find a single "pre-trib rapture' verse and have not brought forth one - not one
You have been corrected many times from adding to and taking away from God's words.
The Brethren who care about you guys would love to see your hearts nit with the Lord Jesus Christ who said:
“Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
Why are you assaulting Christ and His words?
Why are you assaulting the words of the Apostles?
What do you seek to divide the Body of Christ with a falsehood?
You all, have had 3 months now to find a single "pre-trib rapture' verse and have not brought forth one - not one
You have been corrected many times from adding to and taking away from God's words.
The Brethren who care about you guys would love to see your hearts nit with the Lord Jesus Christ who said:
“Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
Why are you assaulting Christ and His words?
Why are you assaulting the words of the Apostles?
What do you seek to divide the Body of Christ with a falsehood?
You all, have had 3 months now to find a single "pre-trib rapture' verse and have not brought forth one - not one
And you have had all this time to find any clear verse teaching a posttrib rapture,and have not brought forth one - not one.
As I have said over and over, there is not "one" (1) verse anywhere that teaches pre - post - mid - or any other timing for the rapture. However, if we take the end time passages as a whole, pretrib comes out as the winner over all the rest. Why is that? Because God is pretrib.
However, all that being said, there is two or three verses that make pretrib very clear: John saw the raptured church in heaven in Rev. 7, before he wrote any part of the 70th week, PROVING pretrib to be God's choice.
There is NO DOUBT AT ALL that Christ comes after the tribulation. No one here has disagreed with that that I know of. It is scripture and most certainly will take place. But you seem to imagine that this gathering after the trib is Paul's gospel with no proof whatsoever to back it up. It is nothing but myth with no proof.
On the other hand, there is proof it is NOT:
1 Many angels to gather here, but in Paul's gathering it is accomplished by the power of the Holy Spirit.
2 Many angels here but in Paul's gathering, only one archangel.
3 The timing here is after the tribulation of those days, while the timing of Paul's rapture is just before wrath: the 6th seal.
4 There is no resurrection here, but Paul said the dead in Christ would rise first.
5 The armies of heaven are coming WITH Christ here, but the armies of heaven remain in heaven in Paul's gathering.
6 Here Christ is coming for Armageddon; but with Paul's coming He is coming to call up the church.
7 With Paul's gathering there is a meeting in the air, but no mention of such a meeting here.
8 Paul's gathering is before the trib, while this gathering is after the trib.
9 Paul's gathering is specifically for the Bride; here it is not even mentioned who is being gathered.
10 Paul's gathering is to deliver us from wrath, while here He is coming for war and judgment.
11 In Paul's gathering, Jesus is hidden in a cloud, while here "every eye shall see Him."
12 For Paul's rapture, it can happen at any moment; Paul expected it then. Here, it must be after the trib.
Just before this gathering, it is total darkness. Neither the sun nor the moon or stars are visible. Just after Paul's gathering the sun turns black (So visible) and the moon appears blood red (so again visible.) This speaks of two different signs in the sun and moon for two different purposes.
Somehow, people can imagine these are the same coming. Go figure! it is the FALSE telling the TRUTH that it is false. Well, this is the time for such confusion: it is around the world. If you can't find the truth now, what in the world will you do when the entire world is deceived? (All but those whose names are written in heaven.)
Did you not know that the bible you read has been TRANSLATED from Greek?
Rev 20:5
But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first G4413 resurrection.
Lexicon :: Strong's G4413 - prōtos
Outline of Biblical Usage [?]
Do you SEE IT? This word can mean first in time OR first in place, Or first in rank or first in influence or first in honor.
(This is how one begins exegesis. You should learn it.)
Rev 20:5
But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first G4413 resurrection.
Lexicon :: Strong's G4413 - prōtos
Outline of Biblical Usage [?]
- first in time or place
- in any succession of things or persons
- first in rank
- influence, honour
- chief
- principal
Do you SEE IT? This word can mean first in time OR first in place, Or first in rank or first in influence or first in honor.
(This is how one begins exegesis. You should learn it.)
I guess you FORGOT your English bible was translated from the Greek.
Have you bothered to look up "first" to see how it could be translated?
Barnes Notes: " It is called the "first" resurrection in contradistinction from the second and last - the general resurrection - when all the dead will be "literally" raised up from their graves and assembled for the judgment, "
Gill's Commentary: "Christ's resurrection is indeed first, but that is the cause and pledge of this; and there were particular resurrections both before and after his, but they were to a mortal state; and there were some saints that rose from the dead immediately after his resurrection; but these were but few, and were designed as an earnest of this; besides, though it was a resurrection, it was not the resurrection; and it may be further observed, that the resurrection of the righteous will be the first at the coming of Christ, 1 Corinthians 15:22 there will be none then before theirs; theirs will be the first; the resurrection of the wicked, to which this is opposed as the first, will not be till a thousand years after: add to all which, that this resurrection will be, , "the first", that is, the best, as the word is used in Luke 15:22 the chief, the principal; " (Emphasis added.)
Unknown Commentary: "
This is the first resurrection.
First is πρώτη [prōtē] which can be used “of time: first, earliest”7 or it can describe relative priority: “foremost, chief, most important of all.”8 The various individual resurrections which make up the category of the first resurrection all precede the second resurrection in time. It is also the chief or foremost resurrection, the “better resurrection” (Heb. Heb. 11:35) because participation in the first resurrection indicates a person is saved and participates in the blessings of God’s kingdom on earth.
This resurrection is, therefore, the chief, principal, pre-eminent one, because it pertains to that of the first-born, constitutes the persons embraced in and experiencing its power the first born that belong exclusively—in a particular sense typified by the Jewish first-born—to God Himself. Hence not time but distinction is denoted.9
The expression “first resurrection” has constituted an exegetical problem for all interpreters. Posttribulationalists cite this reference as evidence that the rapture could not occur until after the tribulation. Pretribulationalists have rightly held that the first resurrection is not an event, but an order of resurrection . It is evident that our Lord rose form the dead as the first one to receive a resurrection body—others previously raised from the dead had merely been restored to their former natural bodies. His resurrection, though widely separated from resurrections which follow, is included in the first resurrection, otherwise the event described in Revelation would not be “first.” According to 1 Corinthians 1Cor. 15:20, Christ is “the firstfruits of them that are asleep,” i.e., the first part of the resurrection of all saints. Likewise, the evidence that the translation of the church takes place before the tribulation would point to a large segment of the righteous dead being raised before the tribulation. These also would qualify as taking part in the first resurrection. (Emphasis added.)
Chuck Smith Commentary: "Now the first resurrection began with Jesus Christ. He is the first fruits of those who rise from the dead. "
There are many others I could quote.
Have you bothered to look up "first" to see how it could be translated?
Barnes Notes: " It is called the "first" resurrection in contradistinction from the second and last - the general resurrection - when all the dead will be "literally" raised up from their graves and assembled for the judgment, "
Gill's Commentary: "Christ's resurrection is indeed first, but that is the cause and pledge of this; and there were particular resurrections both before and after his, but they were to a mortal state; and there were some saints that rose from the dead immediately after his resurrection; but these were but few, and were designed as an earnest of this; besides, though it was a resurrection, it was not the resurrection; and it may be further observed, that the resurrection of the righteous will be the first at the coming of Christ, 1 Corinthians 15:22 there will be none then before theirs; theirs will be the first; the resurrection of the wicked, to which this is opposed as the first, will not be till a thousand years after: add to all which, that this resurrection will be, , "the first", that is, the best, as the word is used in Luke 15:22 the chief, the principal; " (Emphasis added.)
Unknown Commentary: "
This is the first resurrection.
First is πρώτη [prōtē] which can be used “of time: first, earliest”7 or it can describe relative priority: “foremost, chief, most important of all.”8 The various individual resurrections which make up the category of the first resurrection all precede the second resurrection in time. It is also the chief or foremost resurrection, the “better resurrection” (Heb. Heb. 11:35) because participation in the first resurrection indicates a person is saved and participates in the blessings of God’s kingdom on earth.
This resurrection is, therefore, the chief, principal, pre-eminent one, because it pertains to that of the first-born, constitutes the persons embraced in and experiencing its power the first born that belong exclusively—in a particular sense typified by the Jewish first-born—to God Himself. Hence not time but distinction is denoted.9
The expression “first resurrection” has constituted an exegetical problem for all interpreters. Posttribulationalists cite this reference as evidence that the rapture could not occur until after the tribulation. Pretribulationalists have rightly held that the first resurrection is not an event, but an order of resurrection . It is evident that our Lord rose form the dead as the first one to receive a resurrection body—others previously raised from the dead had merely been restored to their former natural bodies. His resurrection, though widely separated from resurrections which follow, is included in the first resurrection, otherwise the event described in Revelation would not be “first.” According to 1 Corinthians 1Cor. 15:20, Christ is “the firstfruits of them that are asleep,” i.e., the first part of the resurrection of all saints. Likewise, the evidence that the translation of the church takes place before the tribulation would point to a large segment of the righteous dead being raised before the tribulation. These also would qualify as taking part in the first resurrection. (Emphasis added.)
Chuck Smith Commentary: "Now the first resurrection began with Jesus Christ. He is the first fruits of those who rise from the dead. "
There are many others I could quote.
