How the Pre-Trib Rapture Became Popular in the Modern Church
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So you're saying that the following verses [among other verses, same chpt] speak of what takes AFTER CHRIST HAD ALREADY RETURNED TO THE EARTH... RETURNED PRIOR to this and PRIOR to the other 5 preceding this SIXTH one?!?!:
12 And the sixth angel poured out his bowl on the great river Euphrates, and its water was dried up to prepare the way for the kings of the East.
13 And I saw three unclean spirits that looked like frogs coming out of the mouths of the dragon, the beast, and the false prophet. 14 These are demonic spirits that perform signs and go out to all the kings of the earth, to assemble them for battle on the great day of God the Almighty.
15 “Behold, I am coming like a thief. Blessed is the one who remains awake and clothed, so that he will not go naked and let his shame be exposed.”
16 And they assembled the kings in the place that in Hebrew is called Armageddon.
Oh boy, you've really gotten the "chronology" crazily mixed up!
= D
[again, the "7 vials" are said to be (15:1) "the seven LAST plagues, because IN THEM the wrath of God IS COMPLETED [G5055]" (not "is STARTED *AND* completed [G5055]"!)]
12 And the sixth angel poured out his bowl on the great river Euphrates, and its water was dried up to prepare the way for the kings of the East.
13 And I saw three unclean spirits that looked like frogs coming out of the mouths of the dragon, the beast, and the false prophet. 14 These are demonic spirits that perform signs and go out to all the kings of the earth, to assemble them for battle on the great day of God the Almighty.
15 “Behold, I am coming like a thief. Blessed is the one who remains awake and clothed, so that he will not go naked and let his shame be exposed.”
16 And they assembled the kings in the place that in Hebrew is called Armageddon.
Oh boy, you've really gotten the "chronology" crazily mixed up!
= D
[again, the "7 vials" are said to be (15:1) "the seven LAST plagues, because IN THEM the wrath of God IS COMPLETED [G5055]" (not "is STARTED *AND* completed [G5055]"!)]
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Totally agree God does not appoint us to HIS WRATH.
That's why Paul was compelled to explain the fact of the rapture to the beloved Thessalonians and also to us. As a means to provide confidence, consolation, comfort and rest to our souls......
That's why Paul was compelled to explain the fact of the rapture to the beloved Thessalonians and also to us. As a means to provide confidence, consolation, comfort and rest to our souls......
Will you also speak against the Holy Spirit who says that the falling away is a departure from the faith:
Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, - 1 Timothy 4:1
Let no one deceive you by any means;
for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed- 2 Thess 2:1-3
Little children, it is the last hour; and as you have heard that the Antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come, by which we know that it is the last hour. They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us;
but they went out (departed)that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us. 1 John 2:18-19
So many lies to hold your idol up high
But God's words you cannot hide
Truth be known from Him to me
Plain as Day for the wise who See
Totally agree God does not appoint us to HIS WRATH.
That's why Paul was compelled to explain the fact of the rapture to the beloved Thessalonians and also to us. As a means to provide confidence, consolation, comfort and rest to our souls......
That's why Paul was compelled to explain the fact of the rapture to the beloved Thessalonians and also to us. As a means to provide confidence, consolation, comfort and rest to our souls......
Take the cross! It's all over the NT. There are hundreds of verses that mention it, including Jesus going to the cross. A great topic to make a doctrine out of.
But Rapture? A wrongly transliterated word by Jerome in the 4th century Latin Vulgate! Meaning the Catholic Bible. And Jerome didn't speak Koine Greek well, because it had changed into another, later Greek!
Rapture literally never appears in Koine Greek, the language the NT was written in, nor in any other Bible.
And it is not backed up anywhere. Even if Rapture did appear, properly translated from Greek, it's only ONE verse! It is exegetically and hermeneutically unsound to ever make a doctrine out of one verse. Let alone an entire eschatology! Yet so many people are totally deluded as to what this verse means, and tricked into believing this entire false construct of end times.
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How many years have you studied Koine Greek, formally with a proper teacher? I've had 2 years with Bill Mounce. Straight As for 4 semesters, seminary level. I've got all kinds of Greek tools, too! Like a proper Lexicon Bauer! Exegetical books, and commentaries. I read the NT In Greek daily.
And no, Rapture is just a BAD translation. The fact that no other Bible dares to translate harpazo as Rapture, proves my point.
Please take a course or two in Greek, so you will understand a bit more about translating. Rapture is wrong.
And as I said, you cannot make a doctrine out of one verse, especially a verse with a wrongly translated word. Bit further, other words are important in this verse!
1 Thess 4:17 years talks about "to meet" Jesus. The context and meaning of this word is very important. It actually has an extended meaning. This word was only used when a returning conqueror returned victorious to his home land. The people would rush out "to meet" the king, and return with him back to the city. Apantesin written as ἁρπαγησόμεθα 1st person plural, middle/passive future. Paul is very precise in his word usage. He picked apantesin, because he wanted the image of Jesus the King of Kings & Lord of Lords returning from heaven, the people being caught up in the air around them, and then returning to earth. This verse is clearly prophesying the Second Coming. No rapture, no trip to heaven. Just rejoicing because Jesus has returned to his people, just as he said he would!
And no, Rapture is just a BAD translation. The fact that no other Bible dares to translate harpazo as Rapture, proves my point.
Please take a course or two in Greek, so you will understand a bit more about translating. Rapture is wrong.
And as I said, you cannot make a doctrine out of one verse, especially a verse with a wrongly translated word. Bit further, other words are important in this verse!
1 Thess 4:17 years talks about "to meet" Jesus. The context and meaning of this word is very important. It actually has an extended meaning. This word was only used when a returning conqueror returned victorious to his home land. The people would rush out "to meet" the king, and return with him back to the city. Apantesin written as ἁρπαγησόμεθα 1st person plural, middle/passive future. Paul is very precise in his word usage. He picked apantesin, because he wanted the image of Jesus the King of Kings & Lord of Lords returning from heaven, the people being caught up in the air around them, and then returning to earth. This verse is clearly prophesying the Second Coming. No rapture, no trip to heaven. Just rejoicing because Jesus has returned to his people, just as he said he would!
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I've never claimed anything else. When I went to Dispie Churches after I was saved, I was reading through the Bible once a year. I wasn't reading anything that matched dispie eschatology. Now, I knew nothing about theology, I had been taught zero about eschatology. So, a blank skate.
I heard a lot of sermons preached on the rapture, pre-tribe, and Rev 20 and the 6 references to the millennialium. But, it just didn't come together. I spent several years reading specifically to find this whole doctrine in the Bible, and nothing was there. I became convinced there was no rapture, because it wasn't in the Bible.
But I kept my lips sealed! Too many people, including the denomination I was in, said you were a heretic going to hell if you didn't believe in the pre-trib rapture. I switched to Baptist churches & heard very little eschatology! (Although I preached a sermon series in Rev. Along with the pastor and former pastor. We were all amill.)
But, it was seminary that opened my eyes. In theology, we learned the 4 viewpoints, and were told to discuss which one we believed. There were lots of amillennials in class, and they knew and had studied this. It was the first time I had heard of historic premillennialism, post-millennialist, and amillennialism! And it was the first time I put a name to what I read in the Bible for 25 years. I also discovered that Dispies have an "over realized eschatology!" That end times is probably the least important doctrine in Christianity. I've been studying theology towards my PhD. We studied the Trinity, the Atonement, the Holy Spirit, ecclesiology, the cross, Christology etc. Never even looked at eschatology.
I personally have read quite a few good books by scholars on Amillennialism, but also on other viewpoints. I am confident what I believe is biblical, but if it wasn't, it wouldn't break my world to find out something else was true. So yes, Amillennialism, cause that's what I read over and over in my Bible.
I heard a lot of sermons preached on the rapture, pre-tribe, and Rev 20 and the 6 references to the millennialium. But, it just didn't come together. I spent several years reading specifically to find this whole doctrine in the Bible, and nothing was there. I became convinced there was no rapture, because it wasn't in the Bible.
But I kept my lips sealed! Too many people, including the denomination I was in, said you were a heretic going to hell if you didn't believe in the pre-trib rapture. I switched to Baptist churches & heard very little eschatology! (Although I preached a sermon series in Rev. Along with the pastor and former pastor. We were all amill.)
But, it was seminary that opened my eyes. In theology, we learned the 4 viewpoints, and were told to discuss which one we believed. There were lots of amillennials in class, and they knew and had studied this. It was the first time I had heard of historic premillennialism, post-millennialist, and amillennialism! And it was the first time I put a name to what I read in the Bible for 25 years. I also discovered that Dispies have an "over realized eschatology!" That end times is probably the least important doctrine in Christianity. I've been studying theology towards my PhD. We studied the Trinity, the Atonement, the Holy Spirit, ecclesiology, the cross, Christology etc. Never even looked at eschatology.
I personally have read quite a few good books by scholars on Amillennialism, but also on other viewpoints. I am confident what I believe is biblical, but if it wasn't, it wouldn't break my world to find out something else was true. So yes, Amillennialism, cause that's what I read over and over in my Bible.
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Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, 2not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come. 3Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, 4who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.
5Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things? 6And now you know what is restraining, that he may be revealed in his own time. 7For the [d]mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only [e]He who now restrains will do so until He is taken out of the way.
And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming. 2 Thess 2:8
Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, having the key to the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. 2He laid hold of the dragon, that serpent of old, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years; 3and he cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal on him, so that he should deceive the nations no more till the thousand years were finished. But after these things he must be released for a little while.
4And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. 5But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished.
This is the first resurrection.
Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection.
Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.
Scripture AGREES with Itself - place your trust in the WORD and seek the promise of the Holy Spirit
But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen asleep, lest you sorrow as others who have no hope. 14For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who [c]sleep in Jesus.
15For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are [d]asleep. 16For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first.
Zero is before FIRST = you have a false pre-rapture
5Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things? 6And now you know what is restraining, that he may be revealed in his own time. 7For the [d]mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only [e]He who now restrains will do so until He is taken out of the way.
And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming. 2 Thess 2:8
Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, having the key to the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. 2He laid hold of the dragon, that serpent of old, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years; 3and he cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal on him, so that he should deceive the nations no more till the thousand years were finished. But after these things he must be released for a little while.
4And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. 5But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished.
This is the first resurrection.
Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection.
Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.
Scripture AGREES with Itself - place your trust in the WORD and seek the promise of the Holy Spirit
But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen asleep, lest you sorrow as others who have no hope. 14For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who [c]sleep in Jesus.
15For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are [d]asleep. 16For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first.
Zero is before FIRST = you have a false pre-rapture
Totally agree God does not appoint us to HIS WRATH.
That's why Paul was compelled to explain the fact of the rapture to the beloved Thessalonians and also to us. As a means to provide confidence, consolation, comfort and rest to our souls......
That's why Paul was compelled to explain the fact of the rapture to the beloved Thessalonians and also to us. As a means to provide confidence, consolation, comfort and rest to our souls......
His secret doctrine does not allow him to answer that question.
I tried
Well......you just don't get it lady. That's it and that's all.
TDW has been hitting exegetical homeruns and grand slams and you don't see it? You're willing to toss two thirds of the entire Bible to the trashcan? You're willing to kick Israel to the curb?
Tragic. Glad I'm not stuck in that rut.
TDW has been hitting exegetical homeruns and grand slams and you don't see it? You're willing to toss two thirds of the entire Bible to the trashcan? You're willing to kick Israel to the curb?
Tragic. Glad I'm not stuck in that rut.
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OK.......as regards the historical premillennialists, I'd like to see 10 rock-solid verses that illustrate and predict the Church in the Old Testament.
For you I would like to see 10 verses that state that God has utterly abandoned His promises and covenants to Abraham, David and Israel forever. And 10 more verses that declare that Israel will never again be restored rebuilt and reconstituted as a holy people in the future.
For you I would like to see 10 verses that state that God has utterly abandoned His promises and covenants to Abraham, David and Israel forever. And 10 more verses that declare that Israel will never again be restored rebuilt and reconstituted as a holy people in the future.