How old is the earth?
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God has chosen foolishness to shame the wise. Some people may think of themselves highly but science is nothing more than observations and observations are nothing more than perceptions. Our perceptions can not replace truth and many will be very surprised.
On the issue of time, science has got it all wrong; they can date whatever they want but it won't be true as long as they have the wrong basis of time. All time is in the mind and is based upon the contrast the mind makes from Earth's movement- so from the earth's movement, we establish the duration called, second/minute/hour/day/month/year. IOW, the earth is our original clock- we can not use what we have observed from the clock to date our clock (circular reasoning). You also have no liberty to change the clock (say- to atomic clock) and date the earth because the duration we call a second/day/year that you get from the atomic clock are original established from earth's movement. You also can not use the so called speed of light because that rate is based on earth's movement too.
If we are to choose another planet for dating then everything changes drastically, clearly showing that time is actually not a thing, it is what we have chosen it to be to help us.
So calm down and relax, our universe is not old and there's a reason it can not be old.
On the issue of time, science has got it all wrong; they can date whatever they want but it won't be true as long as they have the wrong basis of time. All time is in the mind and is based upon the contrast the mind makes from Earth's movement- so from the earth's movement, we establish the duration called, second/minute/hour/day/month/year. IOW, the earth is our original clock- we can not use what we have observed from the clock to date our clock (circular reasoning). You also have no liberty to change the clock (say- to atomic clock) and date the earth because the duration we call a second/day/year that you get from the atomic clock are original established from earth's movement. You also can not use the so called speed of light because that rate is based on earth's movement too.
If we are to choose another planet for dating then everything changes drastically, clearly showing that time is actually not a thing, it is what we have chosen it to be to help us.
So calm down and relax, our universe is not old and there's a reason it can not be old.
Since the creation of the earth and Adam were almost simultaneous, that distinction does not exist in Scripture.
Unbelieving scientists can believe whatever they wish, but Christians have the Bible and the Holy Spirit. And many of those who once believed in evolution have abandoned that theory. Indeed, Darwin himself had grave doubts about his own theory, yet he failed to abandon it. That is the power of a lie.
There was no earth BEFORE the earth, and the Gap Theory is just that. A theory without any biblical basis.
Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear. (Heb 11:3)
For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it. (Exod 20:11).
Those six days were six literal 24-hour days bounded by evening and morning. And that is how they are presented in the Ten Commandments. Since the Ten Commandments are eternal, there is no doubt about the age of the earth.
Unbelieving scientists can believe whatever they wish, but Christians have the Bible and the Holy Spirit. And many of those who once believed in evolution have abandoned that theory. Indeed, Darwin himself had grave doubts about his own theory, yet he failed to abandon it. That is the power of a lie.
There was no earth BEFORE the earth, and the Gap Theory is just that. A theory without any biblical basis.
Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear. (Heb 11:3)
For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it. (Exod 20:11).
Those six days were six literal 24-hour days bounded by evening and morning. And that is how they are presented in the Ten Commandments. Since the Ten Commandments are eternal, there is no doubt about the age of the earth.
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Here is what is rather interesting in my view of this, from Genesis 1:1 to 1:2 we have the Spirit of God hovering over the earth that was submerged under water. So, before we ever get to the point of God hovering over earth as a Spirit, somewhere this blob of a planet existed and was under water. NOWHERE do we find how the earth (without form) got there or how long it had been there in that state. But anyone with an IQ above 50 should know that water causes damage. And I believe this is where science gets confused and how Darwin even entertained the idea of evolution was due to water damage on a earth just sitting there.
But my point is this, we don't know exactly how long the earth was in this condition. All we know this was the starting we read about. I am familiar with dating mechanisms like carbon, uranium, radioactive, etc and scientific mathematics. Although these mechanisms can be altered to achieve anything we like, they are actually quite reliable and accurate when given the correct numbers to format age. And if the earth sat under water for thousands of years, hundred thousand, maybe a million years, that water damaging would allow science some clue to what they believe they are aging.
So in my opinion, the age of the earth does not actually relate to creation.
But my point is this, we don't know exactly how long the earth was in this condition. All we know this was the starting we read about. I am familiar with dating mechanisms like carbon, uranium, radioactive, etc and scientific mathematics. Although these mechanisms can be altered to achieve anything we like, they are actually quite reliable and accurate when given the correct numbers to format age. And if the earth sat under water for thousands of years, hundred thousand, maybe a million years, that water damaging would allow science some clue to what they believe they are aging.
So in my opinion, the age of the earth does not actually relate to creation.
When you read any text you have to interpret it, that is what reading is! How can you not interpret the bible? Or any other book for that matter? Interpretation is nothing more than understanding what you read. So everyone interprets the bible in their own way. What’s the alternative? To have it interpreted by a priest? That’s how the catholics ended up in such a mess. You interpret the bible according to your experiences, education and understanding and so do I - and so does everyone else.
As for science and scientists, you are right, a discipline based on empirical evidence, observation and measurement is not well equipped to deal with God. A belief in God is an assumption and God lies outside the realm of the physical. Science alone will not discover God, although it does provide many clues! God has not left himself without testimony and scientists will face a terrible time at the last judgment when God points all this out to them!
But if you have God and accept His revelation, then science shows you the majesty of God in a way that is closed to non scientists. If you believe the earth is 6000 years old, then the universe has to be very small. When you accept that it is, in reality, 13.8 billion years old, the universe is so fantastically massive, you realise the incredible power of God.
There are scientists who are christians. I don’t think they are necessarily cowards who ‘go along’ with atheism. Faith and religion are different domains. They don’t contradict, but they don’t overlap much either.
As for science and scientists, you are right, a discipline based on empirical evidence, observation and measurement is not well equipped to deal with God. A belief in God is an assumption and God lies outside the realm of the physical. Science alone will not discover God, although it does provide many clues! God has not left himself without testimony and scientists will face a terrible time at the last judgment when God points all this out to them!
But if you have God and accept His revelation, then science shows you the majesty of God in a way that is closed to non scientists. If you believe the earth is 6000 years old, then the universe has to be very small. When you accept that it is, in reality, 13.8 billion years old, the universe is so fantastically massive, you realise the incredible power of God.
There are scientists who are christians. I don’t think they are necessarily cowards who ‘go along’ with atheism. Faith and religion are different domains. They don’t contradict, but they don’t overlap much either.
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From a biblical and scientific point of view:
Genesis 1:1 claims the heavens and earth are finished (the Hebrew Torah states it means completed).
But if we observe the universe, we can definitely see it expanding all of time. Now, if the heavens were finished, one could conclude it should not be still expanding. Or, one can conclude that was how God finished it to continue expanding. I do think when reading radioactive wavelengths, we purposely ignored several red lines that science claims to use to measure the expansion. If we took those red lines in account, the universe although expanding, would only be dated around what science claims to be the age of the earth (4.5 billions years of age).
That doesn't necessarily mean there was something covered by water which many people want us to believe means there was Earth initially, only that it was not transformed to be a habitable place. The word water or deep waters as used several times in the bible means void and emptiness/ nothingness and in Genesis 1 the word water means several things including H2O/ emptiness and atmosphere. The heart of a man has also been described as deep waters. God creating from deep waters doesn't mean God created from H2O but from His thoughts.
Interesting point. I have a tendency to read Bereishit (Genesis) from the Torah to see what the original interpretation was like. I will copy/paste and you see it claims God moves the water...
6And God said, "Let there be an expanse in the midst of the water, and let it be a separation between water and water." ווַיֹּ֣אמֶר אֱלֹהִ֔ים יְהִ֥י רָקִ֖יעַ בְּת֣וֹךְ הַמָּ֑יִם וִיהִ֣י מַבְדִּ֔יל בֵּ֥ין מַ֖יִם לָמָֽיִם:
This is why I used covered in water, because the original Hebrew specifies the earth was under actual water.
This is the creation sequence with different meanings of water:
Gen 1:
1In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.
3And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. 4God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness. 5God called the light “day,” and the darkness he called “night.” And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day.
6And God said, “Let there be a vault between the waters to separate water from water.” 7So God made the vault and separated the water under the vault from the water above it. And it was so. 8God called the vault “sky.” And there was evening, and there was morning—the second day.
9And God said, “Let the water under the sky be gathered to one place, and let dry ground appear.” And it was so. 10God called the dry ground “land,” and the gathered waters he called “seas.” And God saw that it was good.
1. Water in verse 1 simply means the spirit of God/ the deep thoughts of God- He was hovering over darkness and emptiness. There was no earth or heaven or anything covered by H2O.
This kind of 'water' is also used here:
Pro 18:4 The words of a man’s mouth are deep waters; the fountain of wisdom is a bubbling brook.
Pro 20:5 The intentions of a man's heart are deep waters, but a man of understanding draws them out.
It shows God intended to create the universe and that the whole creation was drawn from His deep thoughts (wisdom & knowledge) and made manifest.
2. Water being separated from water - the water in the sixth verse also has nothing to do with H2O. It simply means space and the space above earth was what would be referred to as atmosphere and the one separated from earth is sky.
3. Only the third time (v9), do we get to see H2O.
Even here:
2 Pet 3:5 But they deliberately overlook the fact that long ago by God’s word the heavens existed and the earth was formed out of water and by water, 6through which the world of that time perished in the flood. 7And by that same word, the present heavens and earth are reserved for fire, kept for the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men
Peter implies that the word of God is deep waters.
Gen 1:
1In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.
3And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. 4God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness. 5God called the light “day,” and the darkness he called “night.” And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day.
6And God said, “Let there be a vault between the waters to separate water from water.” 7So God made the vault and separated the water under the vault from the water above it. And it was so. 8God called the vault “sky.” And there was evening, and there was morning—the second day.
9And God said, “Let the water under the sky be gathered to one place, and let dry ground appear.” And it was so. 10God called the dry ground “land,” and the gathered waters he called “seas.” And God saw that it was good.
1. Water in verse 1 simply means the spirit of God/ the deep thoughts of God- He was hovering over darkness and emptiness. There was no earth or heaven or anything covered by H2O.
This kind of 'water' is also used here:
Pro 18:4 The words of a man’s mouth are deep waters; the fountain of wisdom is a bubbling brook.
Pro 20:5 The intentions of a man's heart are deep waters, but a man of understanding draws them out.
It shows God intended to create the universe and that the whole creation was drawn from His deep thoughts (wisdom & knowledge) and made manifest.
2. Water being separated from water - the water in the sixth verse also has nothing to do with H2O. It simply means space and the space above earth was what would be referred to as atmosphere and the one separated from earth is sky.
3. Only the third time (v9), do we get to see H2O.
Even here:
2 Pet 3:5 But they deliberately overlook the fact that long ago by God’s word the heavens existed and the earth was formed out of water and by water, 6through which the world of that time perished in the flood. 7And by that same word, the present heavens and earth are reserved for fire, kept for the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men
Peter implies that the word of God is deep waters.
Gen 1 account creation is very deep in explaining what happened. The universe was actualized from God's thoughts and the sequence is also true. The darkness that was said is not just darkness but negative energy, so for anything (even an atom) to exist, the darkness was to be overcome and the condition in which darkness has been overcome is called light. Doesn't necessarily mean visible light but from this light which was distributed all over the emptiness, came matter and from matter, everything else.
It is also said that light was separated from darkness- this simply means matter was actualized from that process.
Then from matter we get the bodies and earth being covered by the atmosphere- and the process continued upto day 6. There is nothing wrong with this sequence.
It is also said that light was separated from darkness- this simply means matter was actualized from that process.
Then from matter we get the bodies and earth being covered by the atmosphere- and the process continued upto day 6. There is nothing wrong with this sequence.
The idea that the universe is billions of years old is only to give plausibility to randomness and spontaneous generation through trial and error and slim probabilities which are collectively referred to as nothingness. God created from deep understanding-meaning that the universe was functional in His spirit before it was actualized, this can not take a million years.
Yet we are told in (2 Peter 1:20) "Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation." The prophets didn't just write down the way they believed things should be. Neither should we force our experience, education, and understanding in order to come to a right interpretation. Every believer has access to the Word of God and God can speak to him from that Word, no matter his education or situation. But when you sit down to study the Bible, to know the meaning of a certain Book or Passage, you have rules of interpreting that you go by, and those don't include your experiences.
What you describe is like going to a Bible class where the teacher reads a Scripture and then asks everyone to tell them what it means to them. You have 20 students, so you will have 20 interpretations. You don't want this. You want the teacher to tell you what it means. If he doesn't know, then he needs to say it and then seek to know. If he doesn't know anymore than his students then you need to get another teacher.
You seem to enjoy science. I am surprised you take such a view of interpretation. Interpretation of Scripture is also a science. You should read "Protestant Biblical Interpretation" by Bernard Ramm. His first statement on page 1 is this. "Hermeneutics is the science and art of Biblical interpretation. It is a science because it is guided by rules within a system; and it is an art because the application of the rules is by skill, and not by mechanical imitation. "
Of course scientists can be Christians. But most are not. And those who are, are prone to let science interpret or contribute in their interpretation of Scripture. Just like you reject the Gap Theory for scientific reasons. I never offered it for Scientific reasons, I offered it as I believe it is a truth found in Scripture. The same way many 'christian scientists' accept some form of evolution. Evolution is almost 'dogma' in the scientific world. So the christian scientist is prone to come to the Scripture with that assumption.
Quantrill
What you describe is like going to a Bible class where the teacher reads a Scripture and then asks everyone to tell them what it means to them. You have 20 students, so you will have 20 interpretations. You don't want this. You want the teacher to tell you what it means. If he doesn't know, then he needs to say it and then seek to know. If he doesn't know anymore than his students then you need to get another teacher.
You seem to enjoy science. I am surprised you take such a view of interpretation. Interpretation of Scripture is also a science. You should read "Protestant Biblical Interpretation" by Bernard Ramm. His first statement on page 1 is this. "Hermeneutics is the science and art of Biblical interpretation. It is a science because it is guided by rules within a system; and it is an art because the application of the rules is by skill, and not by mechanical imitation. "
Of course scientists can be Christians. But most are not. And those who are, are prone to let science interpret or contribute in their interpretation of Scripture. Just like you reject the Gap Theory for scientific reasons. I never offered it for Scientific reasons, I offered it as I believe it is a truth found in Scripture. The same way many 'christian scientists' accept some form of evolution. Evolution is almost 'dogma' in the scientific world. So the christian scientist is prone to come to the Scripture with that assumption.
Quantrill
The average size of adult dinosaurs was the size of a modern sheep. Some adult dinosaurs were large compared to modern adults humans. We don't know how tall people were in the pre flood world; their size could have also been very large. But God could have brought a baby version of a large dinosaurs to Noah. FYI Brontosaurus may have never existed and was mistakenly created by scientists...
Natural phenomenon cap the age of the Earth to 'no greater than' values. For example, the rate of accumulation of salt into the oceans means that the oceans cannot be older than 60 million years, otherwise if the oceans were older than 60 million years they would be far saltier than the Dead Sea which is incapable of supporting life. There are many. many more examples of natural phenomeon capping the age of the Earth, some capping the age of the Earth to no greater than several thousand years, see ICR and Answers and Genesis,
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Quantrill, I had a bet with myself that you would come back at me with that quote about private interpretations! But this is about the writers of the scripture and even then, they are not typewriters (as the muslims would have it). Scripture is a joint venture between man and God, with God as the senior partner. But there is a man involved and that doesn’t diminish the revelation at all. But the scripture is constrained by the knowledge and experience of the writer and God accepts this. Why did Jesus not write an autobiography? Because he didn’t need to!
But when it comes to reading the scripture it is YOU who reads and understands. And how do you understand, if not through the totality of your person? Your experiences too. This doesn’t mean you get it wrong if you have some opinion or experience, it filters what you are receptive to. In the end each person takes what they need.
The other thing is that christians are all equipped with the holy spirit, who has the job of revealing the meaning of the scripture. There is no problem with this provided you realise that there is no ONE correct interpretation! God speaks to us all at different levels and this is determined by education, experience and understanding.
Of course the bible makes perfect sense if you interpret it literally. That’s what people did for several thousand years, but its not the only way. I think Genesis is like one of the parables, it gets the big message across and the details are not the main point. Does this mean I lose my salvation?
The point I am making is that the scripture is limited by the experience and knowledge of the men who wrote it and God doesn’t care. For example Job 42 has God telling us that if Job is so clever, let him try to tame leviathan. Then God tells him about the characteristics of this creature. He says it breaths fire. At this time men believed such things, so God uses this idea to convey a deeper truth. Do huge fire breathing creatures exist? Of course not. Did God know this? Of course he did! But he didn’t care. That wasn’t the point at all. Its the same with Genesis. God knows how he really made the universe and he could easily have told us. But he was dealing with primitive men! So he speaks their language.
Look at the catholic church. Incredible doctrines, many not even scriptural, but God used this church to save millions, even the ones who believe in the mother of God and purgatory!
Of course there are cults. That’s a different thing entirely. You cannot believe anything! The person of christ cannot be messed with, on that I am sure we agree. But on all the peripheral issues, we can all have different opinions and when we get to heaven, it will be hilarious to run through them.