How mysticism is undermining Bible Christianity today

[CherieR]

I haven’t heard of soaking prayers but my understanding of soaking is in worship. Music or listening to teachings. Or just waiting in His Presence to hear from above. We do tend to talk more than expecting to hear.

But, the younger generations are using the word mystics now meaning a close walk with Jesus. Different than what our generations thought of what a Christian should be.

This isn’t new age, nor is it spiritualism whatever that is. It’s closeness with Holy Spirit. And Jesus is always glorified.

I do believe Jesus would be called a mystic today if He was here ministering. He was called demonic by some in His day. His teachings powerful with truth that struck to the heart, both those who welcomed Him, and those who hated Him.

And the prayer of Jesus for His body was that we would be one with Him in the same manner He is one with Father.

So are we? This is individual first before it can be corporate.

Be careful in speaking ill of things not understood.

Supernatural to mysticism could just be deeper experiences with the Lord.

But if statues start to weep? Run. Lol

I have seen soaking prayers mentioned in some titles on youtube but don't really know what it means. It seems like something some use to help relax. The body of Christ is one but not always in the sense of unity because conflicts can arise.

Ephesians 4: 3-6 says in the KJV: " Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace. There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; One Lord, one faith, one baptism, one God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all."

 

[CherieR]

But if statues start to weep? Run. Lol

Is this a reference to the show Doctor Who?

 

[crossnote]

I have seen soaking prayers mentioned in some titles on youtube but don't really know what it means. It seems like something some use to help relax. The body of Christ is one but not always in the sense of unity because conflicts can arise.

Ephesians 4: 3-6 says in the KJV: " Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace. There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; One Lord, one faith, one baptism, one God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all."

Much of this movement attacks the sufficiency of Scripture and the sufficiency of Jesus and His grace. It's a yearning for power, and spiritual experiences which God has not granted and/or they are climbing up another way to get them. Those that seek for such things will easily become duped when the man of sin comes on the scene. I'm astounded these days by how many are falling for such stuff.

2 Thessalonians 2:8-12 (KJV) And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

see how important it is to stay close to the Word of God?

 

[Nehemiah6]

What is wrong with contemplative prayer, journaling, soaking, and breathing prayers? I am not exactly sure what soaking prayers are but I have heard people promote listening for God's voice in prayer or listening prayer.

Just meditate on this and you will know what's wrong with Mysticism.

JOHN 3
3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. (Jn 1:12,13)

Unregenerated men cannot come to God without Christ, His shed blood, and the New Birth which is contingent on receiving Him as Lord and Savior.

 

[CherieR]

Much of this movement attacks the sufficiency of Scripture and the sufficiency of Jesus and His grace. It's a yearning for power, and spiritual experiences which God has not granted and/or they are climbing up another way to get them. Those that seek for such things will easily become duped when the man of sin comes on the scene. I'm astounded these days by how many are falling for such stuff.

2 Thessalonians 2:8-12 (KJV) And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

see how important it is to stay close to the Word of God?

So basically you are saying soaking prayers are a way of seeking spiritual experiences, sensations or power? Others may be simply trying to relax or think deeply about Scripture. The verse you quoted is speaking of people who reject Christ not believers in Jesus.

I agree that it is important to stay close to the Word.

 

[Nehemiah6]

Others may be simply trying to relax or think deeply about Scripture.

You are incorrectly assuming that those going into Mysticism are all saved. Nothing could be further from the truth. So if you are interested, read all the posts, and see that this is another form of deception by the Arch Deceiver.

 

[CherieR]

You are incorrectly assuming that those going into Mysticism are all saved. Nothing could be further from the truth. So if you are interested, read all the posts, and see that this is another form of deception by the Arch Deceiver.

Not everyone would be saved going into mysticism. I am thinking that some are saved.

I do have a question though. There have been times I would ask God to speak to me in prayer and then try to be still and quiet before him. At times Scripture would come to mind and at others times nothing. Is this a good thing to practice? Is there something better you would recommend?

 

[crossnote]

jhF
gG
k

So basically you are saying soaking prayers are a way of seeking spiritual experiences, sensations or power? Others may be simply trying to relax or think deeply about Scripture. The verse you quoted is speaking of people who reject Christ not believers in Jesus.

I agree that it is important to stay close to the Word.

I wont judge which are Christians and which aren't who profess Jesus. There are many who say Lord, Lord, but are not His. These are ones seeking signs rather than the Lord, seeking gifts, rather than the Giver of gifts. These are the types who will be open candidates for the coming delusion.
Relaxation doesn't come from centering prayer, or meditating on our navel but through the forgiving Blood of Jesus Crist washing our conscience clean through sincere repentance and confession of our sin.
Soaking? Look up grave soaking. You have deluded Churches like Bethel into that nonsense.

 

[CherieR]

jhF
gG
k

I wont judge which are Christians and which aren't who profess Jesus. There are many who say Lord, Lord, but are not His. These are ones seeking signs rather than the Lord, seeking gifts, rather than the Giver of gifts. These are the types who will be open candidates for the coming delusion.
Relaxation doesn't come from centering prayer, or meditating on our navel but through the forgiving Blood of Jesus Crist washing our conscience clean through sincere repentance and confession of our sin.
Soaking? Look up grave soaking. You have deluded Churches like Bethel into that nonsense.

Never heard of grave soaking but I will look it up.

 

[Waggles]

I do have a question though. There have been times I would ask God to speak to me in prayer and then try to be still and quiet before him. At times Scripture would come to mind and at others times nothing. Is this a good thing to practice? Is there something better you would recommend?

Yes the Lord does often speak through scripture - one of the titles of Jesus is "The Word Of God"

 

[Waggles]

hese are ones seeking signs rather than the Lord, seeking gifts, rather than the Giver of gifts.

stop with bashing your Pentecostal brothers and sisters.

 

[CherieR]

Crossnote, I looked up that term grave soaking as you asked. It is definitely a strange practice. I don't know the percentage of people who practice that but I would think and hope that it is not so common.

 

[crossnote]

Crossnote, I looked up that term grave soaking as you asked. It is definitely a strange practice. I don't know the percentage of people who practice that but I would think and hope that it is not so common.

At one time it was non existent in the Church...but sadly that's the direction many are heading.

 

[crossnote]

stop with bashing your Pentecostal brothers and sisters.

That's your perspective. i believe most of the gifts are real BUT, it is no excuse to put the gifts before Jesus. And I never clumped a whole group guilty of this like you assumed.

 

[Nehemiah6]

Yes the Lord does often speak through scripture - one of the titles of Jesus is "The Word Of God"

Correct. He can also speak in many other ways, and sometimes through other Christians, who know that person well, and are led to give a message from God in a timely manner.

God spoke to Peter in a vision, through an actual angel, and also through Paul. Christ spoke to Paul directly and personally, also through Agabus and the Holy Spirit, and also when he was taken up to Paradise in Heaven . God spoke to Elijah through His still small voice. But He could have also spoke through the storm, since He made His presence known on Mount Sinai through thunder, lightning, and earthquake. And God speaks to His children through various circumstances also.

 

[stonesoffire]

Is this a reference to the show Doctor Who?

No, never watched that show but have heard of it. I was thinking of Catholicism. It’s the only place I’ve ever known to have these things.

 

[crossnote]

Correct. He can also speak in many other ways, and sometimes through other Christians, who know that person well, and are led to give a message from God in a timely manner.

God spoke to Peter in a vision, through an actual angel, and also through Paul. Christ spoke to Paul directly and personally, also through Agabus and the Holy Spirit, and also when he was taken up to Paradise in Heaven . God spoke to Elijah through His still small voice. But He could have also spoke through the storm, since He made His presence known on Mount Sinai through thunder, lightning, and earthquake. And God speaks to His children through various circumstances also.

Yes He can speak in many ways but if the message received contradicts His written Word, or purports to be an addition to His word, we can rest assure the message is not from God.

 

[garee]

Mysticism is best seen in Colossians 2:18 as a warning of shadow worshippers

Mysticism is anything that claims to be authority for hearing God other than as it is written. And that includes the apostles as men seen that some would puff up above that which is written

This includes, dreams, out of the body experience, near death or what some call tongues..... but are not the tongues.. they fall backward when filled as a sign against them exposing their mysticism.

Anything that is not waking by faith according to as it is written is sin .or called will worship (worshiping one own will) The word it in as it is written describes the faith of the unseen God . A tool that may seem to bypass

Jesus experienced mysticism in Mathew 4 . Some would call it a out of body experience. But is really lying spirts bringing into a person fleshly mind lying wonders (mysticism) of things not seen .

Jesus as our example simply did not let the father of mysticism bring things not seen into his fleshly mind .But again rather gave glory to God not seen as it is written (sola scriptura) .

Sola scriptura as it is written is the reforming authority in any generation, any church that names the name Christ.

The same as saying the Jews require a sign before they believe (they have no faith to believe) , making Jesus the center attraction of their mystical circus seal .

John 4:48Then said Jesus unto him, Except ye see signs and wonders, ye will not believe.

Some mix wonders "self will worship" self edifying) with Christian faith .

Shadows are a form of mysticism again the temporal used as a shadow of the heavenly things not seen

Again, Jesus passed the test in Mathew as it is applied to the warning to us bellow. "Let no man beguile you" as a shadow worshipper.

There he defines mysticism as worshipping angels

Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ. Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind, And not holding the Head, from which all the body by joints and bands having nourishment ministered, and knit together, increaseth with the increase of God. Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances, (Touch not; taste not; handle notWhich all are to perish with the using after the commandments and doctrines of men?
Which things have indeed a shew of wisdom in will worship, and humility, and neglecting of the body: not in any honour to the satisfying of the flesh. Colossians 2:17

Mysticism is worshiping a shadow as the temporal things to come called "will worship" or mysticism . Shadows are turned into idol images .


Rather following the prescription that could help make the lying source without effect they turn things upside down taking away the understanding as it is written (sola scriptura) .

2 Corinthians 4:18 While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.

 

[Grandpa]

Much of this movement attacks the sufficiency of Scripture and the sufficiency of Jesus and His grace. It's a yearning for power, and spiritual experiences which God has not granted and/or they are climbing up another way to get them. Those that seek for such things will easily become duped when the man of sin comes on the scene. I'm astounded these days by how many are falling for such stuff.

2 Thessalonians 2:8-12 (KJV) And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

see how important it is to stay close to the Word of God?

It seems more like you guys trying to throw out the baby with the bathwater to me.

Ephesians 1:17-21
17 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:
18 The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints,
19 And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power,
20 Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places,
21 Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come:


If scripture were entirely sufficient on its own then there would be no one practicing Judaism. Everyone reading the bible would be Christian and would be in agreement with what the bible says.

But the bible needs something in addition to itself that you and others call "mystic". The bible needs to be understood and interpreted by people who ACTUALLY have come to Christ and received the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the Knowledge of Him.

Without this Wisdom and Revelation you merely get religions like Judaism, SDA, Roman Catholicism and others.

You get this;
2 Corinthians 3:14-16
14 But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.
15 But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.
16 Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.


The bible is not Christ. Scripture is not Christ. Scripture is written record of Gods Words but it is not the same as the Word of God. The Word of God is a person and His Name is Jesus Christ.

A person has to come to Christ and be given wisdom and revelation in the Knowledge of Christ before they can begin to understand what the Scripture says. They have to hear from the Word of God before they understand the written Word of God which is scripture.

According to Merriam-Webster mysticism is:
1: the experience of mystical union or direct communion with ultimate reality reported by mystics
2: the belief that direct knowledge of God, spiritual truth, or ultimate reality can be attained through subjective experience (such as intuition or insight)
3a: vague speculation : a belief without sound basis
b: a theory postulating the possibility of direct and intuitive acquisition of ineffable knowledge or power


What is coming to Christ and receiving wisdom and revelation but direct knowledge of God, Spiritual Truth that is attained through subjective experience???

 

[PennEd]

I mostly agree with what you say here.

But what about what the OP defined as mysticism? Can there be such a thing as a non-subjective revelation of Christ?

Doesn't a revelation HAVE to be subjective? You can't have my revelation, right?


I'm not saying that a subjective revelation trumps what is written in the bible. I personally think a subjective revelation helps a person understand what is already written and makes it personal to themselves.

IMO Divine revelation to a person means the Holy Spirit "revealing" the meaning of Scripture. NOT something OUTSIDE of Scripture. I have read passages that have had little or no real meaning 4 times, and maybe on the 5th, BOOM! it opens up to me. Virtually always pointing Jesus in some way, and what He has done for and to me, and us.