How Does a Broken Church Reach a Lost World?

[Blain]

It's an honest question. If we can't even tolerate each other, if we tear each other down INSIDE the camp, how do we ever reach a lost world?!

Several years ago I started a thread against OSAS. I simply disagree with it and there was one lady here that was so dogmatic that I started a thread. In the end I believe I offended someone who I thought a lot of who is since gone. He was always so patient in his response to me and I felt bad that I had started that thread. I haven't done so since. It didn't do anything but stir up hurt and anger, it certainly did nothing for the kingdom.

I am Pentecostal, AOG, not a fly by night cult. That being said I fellowship with all denominations, have friends from all of them. I traveled in hundreds of churches over the years, even Catholics, and each place we went they were so gracious to us. I don't hold with Catholic beliefs, or many of them, but they still allowed us to preach the Gospel in some of their churches.

We preached and sang one night in a Pentecostal church. At the end of the service two nuns came up to my sister and I and we had a wonderful talk about missions and serving the Lord. Another time a friend of the family was visiting us but she had brought friends. We were wanting to attend a service since it was Sunday. One of the ladies was Catholic, the rest of us evangelical. But there is a huge cathedral just outside Cinci so we all went there. It was a 911 memorial service, in fact it may have been the first just after it happened. The people at the door didn't ask if we were all Catholic, they were friendly and gracious. It was a beautiful service with the pipe organ and it houses the largest stained glass window in America. Another time we sang at a Methodist church that was spirit filled and they spoke in tongues!! Had a wonderful service.

I saw all that to say this. I come here to CC and I see nothing but bashing each others beliefs. Not discussion. I find it so disheartening. If we cannot even tolerate each other, how do we reach a sinner? I find so many rigid, dogmatic, hateful threads here lately and I wonder what good it does? Honestly. I don't see that in my every day experience, do you?! We use to have those churches that had so many man made rules and sometimes they open their door a crack and let us in to minister. We use to call them the "Us Four and No More" churches. Usually very few people attending because no one could live up to their dogmatic beliefs and false standards. I worry that some of the people at CC go out and try to reach the world with this attitude. I'm not gunning at any one person, I'm talking about an attitude I see here, and it's really strong. I wonder if these people are just home bound and just isolate themselves more and more. I don't get it. I don't see how a broken, bickering, backstabbing church can reach anyone. Why would anyone want to be part of that? It's just a question. Maybe someone can clear it up for me.

You know something happened earlier today that makes me wonder about something. See it was this morning and I was on cc before i headed out to work in a thread we were talking about baptism when the holy spirit was brought up and about God's power @2ndTimothyGroup unintentionally said a prayer that moses himself once said due to his excitement about the holy spirit and God's power I said I wasn't surprised as he is a very spirit filled person and that I have a suspicion that speaking about the holy spirit makes him more inclined to appear and that he popped in through @2ndTimothyGroup


I see many threads about the bible but God himself is rarely spoken about he is rarely boasted about it is mainly debates this debate that, perhaps if we spent more time speaking about him and speaking about things that would build each other up and not as many debates his spirit would flow more in the forums

 

[Edify]

It's an honest question. If we can't even tolerate each other, if we tear each other down INSIDE the camp, how do we ever reach a lost world?!

Several years ago I started a thread against OSAS. I simply disagree with it and there was one lady here that was so dogmatic that I started a thread. In the end I believe I offended someone who I thought a lot of who is since gone. He was always so patient in his response to me and I felt bad that I had started that thread. I haven't done so since. It didn't do anything but stir up hurt and anger, it certainly did nothing for the kingdom.

I am Pentecostal, AOG, not a fly by night cult. That being said I fellowship with all denominations, have friends from all of them. I traveled in hundreds of churches over the years, even Catholics, and each place we went they were so gracious to us. I don't hold with Catholic beliefs, or many of them, but they still allowed us to preach the Gospel in some of their churches.

We preached and sang one night in a Pentecostal church. At the end of the service two nuns came up to my sister and I and we had a wonderful talk about missions and serving the Lord. Another time a friend of the family was visiting us but she had brought friends. We were wanting to attend a service since it was Sunday. One of the ladies was Catholic, the rest of us evangelical. But there is a huge cathedral just outside Cinci so we all went there. It was a 911 memorial service, in fact it may have been the first just after it happened. The people at the door didn't ask if we were all Catholic, they were friendly and gracious. It was a beautiful service with the pipe organ and it houses the largest stained glass window in America. Another time we sang at a Methodist church that was spirit filled and they spoke in tongues!! Had a wonderful service.

I saw all that to say this. I come here to CC and I see nothing but bashing each others beliefs. Not discussion. I find it so disheartening. If we cannot even tolerate each other, how do we reach a sinner? I find so many rigid, dogmatic, hateful threads here lately and I wonder what good it does? Honestly. I don't see that in my every day experience, do you?! We use to have those churches that had so many man made rules and sometimes they open their door a crack and let us in to minister. We use to call them the "Us Four and No More" churches. Usually very few people attending because no one could live up to their dogmatic beliefs and false standards. I worry that some of the people at CC go out and try to reach the world with this attitude. I'm not gunning at any one person, I'm talking about an attitude I see here, and it's really strong. I wonder if these people are just home bound and just isolate themselves more and more. I don't get it. I don't see how a broken, bickering, backstabbing church can reach anyone. Why would anyone want to be part of that? It's just a question. Maybe someone can clear it up for me.

It can be a number of things. Since the Falling Away is speeding up at a breakneck pace, there will be some who cross the line without knowing it.
Also, being on the internet, it's easy to fake a christian attitude(sort of) & play a hypocritical part just for fun.
Then there's those who labor for the enemy where one person can control 8 computers & be 8 individual enemies at once to manipulate the doctrine & lead christians astray. This already happens on Facebook & other places to lead people towards their their liberal political agenda. It's brainwashing, actually. What they've done with the epidemic they will use on the church.
Not to sound crazy or a "conspiracy theorist", There's an agenda behind closed doors to set the stage for the Antichrist. Since they already control govts, economies, businesses, etc., they also have to conspire to brainwash religious people to look to him as well.
Since you are AOG, have you noticed the change in nat'l & state bylaws in the past 15 years? Did you know that the Church of God, Pentecostal Church of God, & other pentecostal denominations have changed their bylaws to create 'executive commitees' consisting of their Nat'l/state chairman, presbyter, & secretary/treasurer? Several, if not all of them have done this, concentrating the majority of the board's power to the top 3 officers both statewide & nationally. This can allow them (PCOG, my old denomination does this)to instead of having national /state elections of the other national/ state leaders, they are now appointed by the executive commitee. That to me is scary because that's nothing but a setup. I could appoint all the other officers that will do what I want to gain even more power within the denomination. That's a plan. Check & see if your denomination does this, & let me know what you find out.
IDK about other non- pentecostal denominations. But there has to be a significant change within the leadership power of these boards to get them prepared as well.
I don't say this to scare folks or seem knowledgeable in some way. But the times are changinging quicker than we know.

 

[GRACE_ambassador]

op: broken church spreading Good News to the world?:
Sad, but must agree, although there are some still "contending for
the faith!" Amen?

Sitting behind your PC/cellphone does little in the way of evangelizing.
Face to face contact is needed.

Some of us (with infirmities) are not able to "get out into the world,"
so we do the best with what God Has Given us to "reach out" with.
I'll never forget I met, on the other side of the world, a 15-year-old
(comparatively, I'm really old), when I first got on youtube. He was
very Encouraged, and thanked me for one of my Bible studies.
God Does "reward all of our little efforts," Correct?

As for "face-to-face" assemblies, am I far off in that many of them, that
about 5-10 percent of the members do the "Majority of the work"?

...thread Against osas...He was always so patient in his response to me
and I felt bad that I had started that thread.

Precious friend, since we are not all "at the same level," of maturity
and understanding, so as not to "feel bad about starting any thread,
with what I Currently believe," as that is Always Definitely subject to
"change (By The Teacher)," I remind myself of the following Scriptures:

1) Give thanks in (easy), and, for (difficult?) ALL things!
(1 Thessalonians 5:18; Ephesians 5:20)

2) ALL things work together for good!! (Romans 8:28)

3) God Is Conforming His children "Into The Image Of His SON"!!!
(Romans 8:29)

More here: GRACE Word for our infirmities

Please Be Very RICHLY Encouraged, Enlightened, and Edified!

GRACE And Peace...

 

[Edify]

op: broken church spreading Good News to the world?:
Sad, but must agree, although there are some still "contending for
the faith!" Amen?

Some of us (with infirmities) are not able to "get out into the world,"
so we do the best with what God Has Given us to "reach out" with.
I'll never forget I met, on the other side of the world, a 15-year-old
(comparatively, I'm really old), when I first got on youtube. He was
very Encouraged, and thanked me for one of my Bible studies.
God Does "reward all of our little efforts," Correct?

As for "face-to-face" assemblies, am I far off in that many of them, that
about 5-10 percent of the members do the "Majority of the work"?

Precious friend, since we are not all "at the same level," of maturity
and understanding, so as not to "feel bad about starting any thread,
with what I Currently believe," as that is Always Definitely subject to
"change (By The Teacher)," I remind myself of the following Scriptures:

1) Give thanks in (easy), and, for (difficult?) ALL things!
(1 Thessalonians 5:18; Ephesians 5:20)

2) ALL things work together for good!! (Romans 8:28)

3) God Is Conforming His children "Into The Image Of His SON"!!!
(Romans 8:29)

More here: GRACE Word for our infirmities

Please Be Very RICHLY Encouraged, Enlightened, and Edified!

GRACE And Peace...

Even a cup of water given in the name of a disciple he shall not lose his reward.

 

[maxwel]

I don't see how a broken, bickering, backstabbing church can reach anyone. Why would anyone want to be part of that? It's just a question. Maybe someone can clear it up for me.

A few quick thoughts:


1.) First of all: this forum doesn't represent "the church".
This is a public forum. There are atheists here debating as atheists, atheists sometimes pretending to be Christians, "supposed" Christians from all kinds of strange heterodox denominations, even people here from cults. So... although there are Christians here, this forum does not represent the church.

A church also has certain kinds of authority structure, and personal relationships, and personal accountability. None of those things really exist here... so we shouldn't expect a forum to function like a church.

2.) Next: even within the church, there are people with all levels of maturity... that is just part of life.
This is explained in the Bible, and should be expected. We all mature in the faith as a process; a slow process with ups and downs. And none of us ever reach the end.

3.) Last: anyone, even mature believers, can just be having a rough time, and not be spiritually focused.
We all go through bad times, when maybe we're not ourselves. We all have weak spots, and failures. We all struggle with pride. We're all made of the same stuff, and that stuff sometimes gives us trouble.

4.) So how do we fix this?
I don't think we can.
This forum isn't "the church", and statistically we shouldn't expect that the majority of people here are "born again." Furthermore, for those here who are genuine believers, they're going to be in all different places in their spiritual life.
There is nothing to fix on this forum... it is an amalgam of what it is.

However... we can fix "some" things, and connect with "some" people:
- We can connect with those on here we know, or those who listen.
- We can connect with believers in our home churches.
- We can connect with the people God brings across our path in daily life.
But this forum is like a bucket filled up with all kinds of different things... we can't really turn it into something it's not.

I think what we do here is relax, take a deep breath, and do whatever we can do.

If you're concerned about what to do with the church at large... that's a strange issue.
It's strange because the overall issue is very complicated, but our own little place in the issue is not.
We simply pray a lot, and do whatever God leads us to do.

.

 

[Edify]

A few quick thoughts:


1.) First of all: this forum doesn't represent "the church".
This is a public forum. There are atheists here debating as atheists, atheists sometimes pretending to be Christians, "supposed" Christians from all kinds of strange heterodox denominations, even people here from cults. So... although there are Christians here, this forum does not represent the church.

A church also has certain kinds of authority structure, and personal relationships, and personal accountability. None of those things really exist here... so we shouldn't expect a forum to function like a church.

2.) Next: even within the church, there are people with all levels of maturity... that is just part of life.
This is explained in the Bible, and should be expected. We all mature in the faith as a process; a slow process with ups and downs. And none of us ever reach the end.

3.) Last: anyone, even mature believers, can just be having a rough time, and not be spiritually focused.
We all go through bad times, when maybe we're not ourselves. We all have weak spots, and failures. We all struggle with pride. We're all made of the same stuff, and that stuff sometimes gives us trouble.

4.) So how do we fix this?
I don't think we can.
This forum isn't "the church", and statistically we shouldn't expect that the majority of people here are "born again." Furthermore, for those here who are genuine believers, they're going to be in all different places in their spiritual life.
There is nothing to fix on this forum... it is an amalgam of what it is.

However... we can fix "some" things, and connect with "some" people:
- We can connect with those on here we know, or those who listen.
- We can connect with believers in our home churches.
- We can connect with the people God brings across our path in daily life.
But this forum is like a bucket filled up with all kinds of different things... we can't really turn it into something it's not.

I think what we do here is relax, take a deep breath, and do whatever we can do.

If you're concerned about what to do with the church at large... that's a strange issue.
It's strange because the overall issue is very complicated, but our own little place in the issue is not.
We simply pray a lot, and do whatever God leads us to do.

.

I wholeheartly agree.
One thing the Lord showed me with church issues is "I can't change them, but with God's power & influence I can be changed.
So I pray for the Lord to change me to be more loving, gracious, & merciful to others.
It still hasn't changed them, but they have notice my change.
I don't brag at all about that, because I know without HIM I'm nothing.
To Christ be the glory!!!

 

[Mem]

On the one hand, "contending" finds its roots in HUMILITY.

I would argue that brokeness is what brings anybody to Christ in the first place, and it's those that attempt to project a image of reached the condition of 'have it all together' that are off putting.

1.) First of all: this forum doesn't represent "the church".
This is a public forum. There are atheists here debating as atheists, atheists sometimes pretending to be Christians, "supposed" Christians from all kinds of strange heterodox denominations, even people here from cults. So... although there are Christians here, this forum does not represent the church.

Atheists often say, 'if you were christian, you would...' and I think even christians attempt to project their own ideas of what a christian would, should, or shouldn't behave. Complicating indeed.

If you're concerned about what to do with the church at large... that's a strange issue.
It's strange because the overall issue is very complicated, but our own little place in the issue is not.
We simply pray a lot, and do whatever God leads us to do.

I think we struggle so much with the idea of who is and is not, as much of ourselves as with others, when the focus should be more on that "I AM," is the core of all our existence.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

I think the only place we can ever find agreement is going to be when everyone accepts scripture for what it is specificallyThe gospel spoken by our lord.

as long as we follow the other teachings and words claiming salvation in the world there will always be contention. it comes when we part from truth and believe other things and still claim to be the one church yet have so many different ideas of what is true

we were warned of this about 1900 years ago

“For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; and they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.”
‭‭2 Timothy‬ ‭4:3-4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.

And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.”
‭‭2 Peter‬ ‭2:1-2‬ ‭

my humble opinion is that as long as we can’t agree with the truth of Christ and his word we can’t really ever be one. Division is caused by the many differing ideas offered in the world of what God has said but the Bible is the same for everyone and claims to be what God actually did say

 

[CorrectiveLens]

It's an honest question. If we can't even tolerate each other, if we tear each other down INSIDE the camp, how do we ever reach a lost world?!

Several years ago I started a thread against OSAS. I simply disagree with it and there was one lady here that was so dogmatic that I started a thread. In the end I believe I offended someone who I thought a lot of who is since gone. He was always so patient in his response to me and I felt bad that I had started that thread. I haven't done so since. It didn't do anything but stir up hurt and anger, it certainly did nothing for the kingdom.

I am Pentecostal, AOG, not a fly by night cult. That being said I fellowship with all denominations, have friends from all of them. I traveled in hundreds of churches over the years, even Catholics, and each place we went they were so gracious to us. I don't hold with Catholic beliefs, or many of them, but they still allowed us to preach the Gospel in some of their churches.

We preached and sang one night in a Pentecostal church. At the end of the service two nuns came up to my sister and I and we had a wonderful talk about missions and serving the Lord. Another time a friend of the family was visiting us but she had brought friends. We were wanting to attend a service since it was Sunday. One of the ladies was Catholic, the rest of us evangelical. But there is a huge cathedral just outside Cinci so we all went there. It was a 911 memorial service, in fact it may have been the first just after it happened. The people at the door didn't ask if we were all Catholic, they were friendly and gracious. It was a beautiful service with the pipe organ and it houses the largest stained glass window in America. Another time we sang at a Methodist church that was spirit filled and they spoke in tongues!! Had a wonderful service.

I saw all that to say this. I come here to CC and I see nothing but bashing each others beliefs. Not discussion. I find it so disheartening. If we cannot even tolerate each other, how do we reach a sinner? I find so many rigid, dogmatic, hateful threads here lately and I wonder what good it does? Honestly. I don't see that in my every day experience, do you?! We use to have those churches that had so many man made rules and sometimes they open their door a crack and let us in to minister. We use to call them the "Us Four and No More" churches. Usually very few people attending because no one could live up to their dogmatic beliefs and false standards. I worry that some of the people at CC go out and try to reach the world with this attitude. I'm not gunning at any one person, I'm talking about an attitude I see here, and it's really strong. I wonder if these people are just home bound and just isolate themselves more and more. I don't get it. I don't see how a broken, bickering, backstabbing church can reach anyone. Why would anyone want to be part of that? It's just a question. Maybe someone can clear it up for me.

The true Church can never be broken. Obviously a congregation that attends a service in a physical building can be made up of members of the true Church and those that are not. Same here in CC, but at least here you can still put out your message. All that a true Christian can do is put out a message supported by Scripture and let God do the rest. YOU CAN'T AND SHOULDN'T FORCE SOMEONE TO BELIEVE WHAT YOU BELIEVE. I have my doubts about people who are in attack mode but I will not judge and I'll pray for them.

 

[Live4Him2]

I would argue that brokeness is what brings anybody to Christ in the first place, and it's those that attempt to project a image of reached the condition of 'have it all together' that are off putting.

So, in relation to the OP's question 'How does a broken (as in "damaged" or "not working properly") church reach a lost world?", the correct answer would be by being broken (as in "subdued" or "humbled")?

Sounds about right to me...

"The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit: a broken and a contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise." (Psalm 51:17)

"Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes? Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof. And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder." (Matthew 21:42-44)

 

[Edify]

I think we struggle so much with the idea of who is and is not, as much of ourselves as with others, when the focus should be more on that "I AM," is the core of all our existence.

I agree. many today think it's all about them. They sing praise of who they are in Christ instead of who saved them. Then when prophecy or tongues/interpretation are spoken, it's always how God is pleased with them & wants them to worship Him.
All these prophecies, & not a single warning about the church's/individual's condition, need to repent or anything of the kind.
As a pentecostal myself, I see the modern church act waaay worse than the Corinthians ever thought about.
It's my personal opinion we're quickly running out of time. Jesus is coming while many are in a spiritual laa-laa land.

 

[Live4Him2]

I agree. many today think it's all about them. They sing praise of who they are in Christ instead of who saved them. Then when prophecy or tongues/interpretation are spoken, it's always how God is pleased with them & wants them to worship Him.
All these prophecies, & not a single warning about the church's/individual's condition, need to repent or anything of the kind.
As a pentecostal myself, I see the modern church act waaay worse than the Corinthians ever thought about.
It's my personal opinion we're quickly running out of time. Jesus is coming while many are in a spiritual laa-laa land.

Yep.

Sad to say, in most churches, it's all about SELF.

As you pretty much said yourself, this is how real prophecy should function within a real church:

I Corinthians chapter 14

[21] In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord.
[22] Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.
[23] If therefore the whole church be come together into one place, and all speak with tongues, and there come in those that are unlearned, or unbelievers, will they not say that ye are mad?
[24] But if all prophesy, and there come in one that believeth not, or one unlearned, he is convinced of all, he is judged of all:
[25] And thus are the secrets of his heart made manifest; and so falling down on his face he will worship God, and report that God is in you of a truth.

 

[kaylagrl]

Folks, I'm trying to catch up on your posts but I have been distracted today. My mother has been cancer free these past two years. A couple weeks ago she had a scan that showed a shadow. She had to get a second scan this past Friday. We have been waiting all weekend for a report. I just want to give a praise report that her doctor called today and said that the second scan showed nothing and she is cancer free.

 

[edington749]

Folks, I'm trying to catch up on your posts but I have been distracted today. My mother has been cancer free these past two years. A couple weeks ago she had a scan that showed a shadow. She had to get a second scan this past Friday. We have been waiting all weekend for a report. I just want to give a praise report that her doctor called today and said that the second scan showed nothing and she is cancer free.

AMEN! Thank you for sharing your blessing!

 

[Blade]

1st PRAISE GOD for what He did for MOM! Praise you Father! Be it AOG or WOF or Baptist.. as the word makes clear were not here to please man. We forget why He came and just what He not us but what He did for us. Its how do I shine for Him..its how I speak what do people see when they see, hear me. Again we forget what Christ said "if you have done it to the least of these my brethren you have done it unto me". How we treat each other, talk about each other.. no matter what how they act (in our eyes) we are really doing it to the king of kings lord of lords. As if some mistake sin or got some doctrine wrong ..oh then its ok haha. Its amazing what LOVE never I mean never sees.

Any time you doubt you seek you fast you ask the Father to show you how He sees you. It will shock you. Were still paying off a debt thats already been paid. So a broken Church? Its not. See we never started this He did and we know what He starts He will always finish.. He has not will not ever lose From what can tell His word has reached the world. The best is yet to come.

 

[Nehemiah6]

It's an honest question. If we can't even tolerate each other, if we tear each other down INSIDE the camp, how do we ever reach a lost world?!

I believe we should realize that Christian forums are not " a church" or "the Church". They are battlegrounds for truth vs error. So there is no need to get discouraged about what goes on here or elsewhere. Here is what Paul says: Preach the Word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine. (2 Tim 4:2)

 

[GRACE_ambassador]

AMEN! Thank you for sharing your blessing!

Precious friend, A Very Warm Welcome to Chat.

GRACE And Peace...

 

[Live4Him2]

I believe we should realize that Christian forums are not " a church" or "the Church". They are battlegrounds for truth vs error. So there is no need to get discouraged about what goes on here or elsewhere. Here is what Paul says: Preach the Word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine. (2 Tim 4:2)

In the true meaning of the word "church" or "ekklesia", which basically means "a called-out congregation", it probably could be rightly said, to some degree at least, that this is a "church".

In any case, let's not forget the following words of the Apostle Paul:

"Now in this that I declare unto you I praise you not, that ye come together not for the better, but for the worse. For first of all, when ye come together in the church, I hear that there be divisions among you; and I partly believe it. For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you." (I Corinthians 11:17-19)

Do I personally believe that there are teachers of heresies on this forum?

Absolutely yes.

And, according to Paul, things like this MUST BE in order that those who are actually approved of God might be made manifest among us.

That's just the way that it is...

 

[RichMan]

The reason the lost are not being reached today is because the true Gospel is not being preached.
As has been stated by others, this forum is made up of many different people.
Some are saved and some not, some know the truth and some do not, some preach the true Gospel, many do not.
While I do not want to offend anyone, if you are not preaching the true Gospel, I must confront you because a false gospel leads to Hell and not eternal life with our Lord and Savior.