How do Church Leaders Enforce.....

[crossnote]

What if 80 percent of the congregation is doing wrong? What if NONE of the congregation is following what is being taught?

I don't live in a world of hypotheticals.

 

[Blik]

We do not turn to men, but we acknowledge what they did or did not do. Whether you believe it or not God's hand was evident in the Reformation (not Revolution).

Of course God used each for His purposes and we are to see the good in all things.

 

[p_rehbein]

Bro. DB:

we go to church for very different reasons.............

just saying........

 

[p_rehbein]

I don't live in a world of hypotheticals.

Given that my "hypothetical" is actually reality, you do........

 

[kaylagrl]

Actually there are tens of thousands of Christian denominations in the USA. Here is an estimate from a non-Catholic source: how many denominations of christianity are there in the united states | National Association of Christian Ministers (nacministers.org)

And it is true that these denominations don't agree with each other in their practices or interpretation of scripture. The number of denominations is easily searchable on line.

So, why do you think tens of thousands of denominations is a lie when it's clearly the truth?

As someone who has traveled in many, many denominations over the years, there are not huge differences between most denominations. A Nazarene would feel comfortable in a Wesleyan church or a Baptist church or a Salvation Army church. Pentecostals would be the most different, but Assembly churches would be accepting of people that don't speak in tongues. I attend a church with a Pentecostal pastor, the church was a Christian church ( they played no music) and we have different denominations attending. All worship together with no issues. They did give up on the no music thing. Most denominational issues have to do with how the church is governed, has very little to with Scriptural issues. My family were Pentecostal and we traveled in all denominations. Naz., Wes, Baptists, Pentecostals, SA, United Churches, UPC churches, non- denominational churches and yes, even a few Catholic or Lutheran churches. Had no issues in any of those churches. We simply shared the Gospel.

 

[tanakh]

What authority do church leaders have to enforce church teachings? These leaders can't even agree with each other as to Biblical teachings. That's why there are 40,000 denominations of Christians in this country. And each denomination doesn't agree with the others, that's why they formed their own. Why should anyone listen to these so called 'church leaders' when they can't even listen to each other? Just asking.

For anyone with a genuine thirst for the Truth concerning God, The real meaning of the whole
Bible, The Key to understanding that meaning and the truth regarding Denominations, Groups and leaders I recommend the following :

Available on Amazon Kindle for £0.99 or in Paperback for £12.99

The Theologians book of secrets
by E.N.Quist

 

[Lanolin]

How do Church Leaders enforce the teachings of their Church? Or can they? Or should they?

I do not remember any Scriptures off hand that address this issue, so if anyone has one or more, please post them. Thanks in advance.

I see every day people who are professed Christians and attend their Church regularly, and some even hold positions of Leadership in their Church.....and these people exhibit life styles in direct contrast to what their Church teaches.

How can a Pastor enforce what he preaches, as he/she is the spiritual leader of the Congregation? How could the Deacons/Elders do this? Or do they just not bother?

probably asking the wrong question
Since Jesus is the head of the church, not the pastor. The pastor(s) are the overseers, and they lead from behind.

If youve ever been a shepherd, you dont really LEAD a herd.
You look after them, tend to them and guard them

Farmers sometimes use sheepdogs to drive/muster a herd of sheep to where they want them to go, by agressively barking at them but they wont be following the farmer. Sheep just go where the food is. Modern day farmers might use barbed wire to fence areas of land.

 

[JohnDB]

Bro. DB:

we go to church for very different reasons.............

just saying........

But is it wrong?
Is it wicked?

I'm not seeing anything subversive in the way I am focused. Can you show me if I am? My private studies are way beyond anything discussed in the small groups or the Sanctuary. Sometimes they have a unique perspective that I appreciate.

But my focus of being on the relationships... exhortation, encouraging, and senseless love...I'm trying to see the harm.

 

[Blik]

I wanted a church that had great knowledge of all scripture, old and new testament. Also that included study of the culture of the different times that scripture tells about, and one that tried their best to stay away from doctrines that were added to church by men like adding Easter to Passover and cut trees to Christmas. When I found that church, I also found lots and lots of propaganda against it. Most of these churches say they are Messianic Synagogues.

Propaganda against this church I found said they did not recognize that Christ brought in the new covenant so they operated under the old covenant. I carefully checked to be sure that wasn't true, and I found that it wasn't what this church taught at all. It is a new covenant church. They recognize the holiness of God in the old testament, and this should be done, I think, by new covenant Christians.

 

[crossnote]

Given that my "hypothetical" is actually reality, you do........

80% of the congregation doing wrong…is not where I live.

 

[p_rehbein]

But is it wrong?
Is it wicked?

I'm not seeing anything subversive in the way I am focused. Can you show me if I am? My private studies are way beyond anything discussed in the small groups or the Sanctuary. Sometimes they have a unique perspective that I appreciate.

But my focus of being on the relationships... exhortation, encouraging, and senseless love...I'm trying to see the harm.

Don't suppose there is any "harm" in the way you focus.

I go to church to worship and praise God. Ministries are a fruit of the Spirit, given by the Spirit, and one need not attend congregational worship to perpetuate their "ministry." Well, IMO anyway.

Again, for me, attending a church where the Pastors Scriptural beliefs are not in keeping with the congregation argues strongly against "one mind" fellowship. I could never attend a church where the Pastor believed/preached interpretations of Scripture I found to be against what I believe/understand. There would simply be no "spiritual fellowship" with that Pastor.

I am not condemning you for your views or reasons, just saying we go to church for far different reasons. My "ministry" is fed/fueled by my fellowship with my congregation and Pastor, powered by our worship and praise of God. We place God first in congregational worship, and suffer "self" to be last.

Anyhoo, bless you and yours........

 

[p_rehbein]

80% of the congregation doing wrong…is not where I live.

I have no idea what church you attend, so can not discuss what "reality" you live/worship in. What denominational ideologies/teachings your church, Pastor hold/preach are a mystery to me because of that.

I do know that there are denominations that hold fast to certain teachings and have built their denomination on those beliefs/teachings. And, if one looks, one will see that the majority of the congregation is NOT living according to those beliefs/teachings. All one has to do is give thought to the denominations and their teachings, and then compare how their membership lives to see the contradictions, IMO.....

That is what I am asking about............

 

[JohnDB]

Don't suppose there is any "harm" in the way you focus.

I go to church to worship and praise God. Ministries are a fruit of the Spirit, given by the Spirit, and one need not attend congregational worship to perpetuate their "ministry." Well, IMO anyway.

Again, for me, attending a church where the Pastors Scriptural beliefs are not in keeping with the congregation argues strongly against "one mind" fellowship. I could never attend a church where the Pastor believed/preached interpretations of Scripture I found to be against what I believe/understand. There would simply be no "spiritual fellowship" with that Pastor.

I am not condemning you for your views or reasons, just saying we go to church for far different reasons. My "ministry" is fed/fueled by my fellowship with my congregation and Pastor, powered by our worship and praise of God. We place God first in congregational worship, and suffer "self" to be last.

Anyhoo, bless you and yours........

Today my heart is broken...the church's secretary/receptionist for the Pastoral staff (large church) son in law died yesterday from Covid. He was in my latest small group bible study. Nice guy... beautiful small kids and nice wife. Remembers EVERYONE's name off the top of her head and we have thousands on the books as members...at least she always remembers mine. (And I always try to fly below the radar screens)
Just a crappy shame.

In a large church in a big city you will have all sorts of people coming from everywhere with a church in their youth that they identify with....but as adults they might not find one that denomination in the big city they move to. So even though I attend a Baptist church there are Presbyterian, Methodist, and non-denominational membership...and happily so. We just like each other...are friends and made to stay that way.
So there are differences...big deal. They don't have to divide us if we don't let them. I can keep my mouth shut in a Methodist church about using the sop for communion. They keep quiet about the pastor not wearing a collar.

I'm not sure about churches where the pastor wears $600 blue jeans and a $200 shirt made to look fashionably casual. They do look great on him but he looks like he's ready for anything but church to me.
Millennials eh?

At any rate...the church or ecclesia is the people...and where the leadership should lead...it's called servant leadership and not knowledge leadership. IMHO. I know my pastor and the assistant pastors and like them well enough. Beyond the job they are alright...not exactly my sort but good guys all around. I don't mind at all hanging out with them...I just don't because there are usually others when I do have time.

 

[p_rehbein]

So there are differences...big deal. They don't have to divide us if we don't let them. I can keep my mouth shut in a Methodist church about using the sop for communion. They keep quiet about the pastor not wearing a collar.

Some, possibly even most differences, yes. However there are differences that have to cause concern. I suppose every person is different, but, for me, there surely are differences that would keep me from attending a church where the Pastor/Elders preach/teach certain ideologies. Especially when what they are teaching is directly against what I believe Scripture/the Gospel of Jesus says.

Anyway.......

I am sorry for the loss of that young man from covid..........it has taken its toll on our peoples, and the peoples of the world.

 

[tanakh]

I wanted a church that had great knowledge of all scripture, old and new testament. Also that included study of the culture of the different times that scripture tells about, and one that tried their best to stay away from doctrines that were added to church by men like adding Easter to Passover and cut trees to Christmas. When I found that church, I also found lots and lots of propaganda against it. Most of these churches say they are Messianic Synagogues.

Propaganda against this church I found said they did not recognize that Christ brought in the new covenant so they operated under the old covenant. I carefully checked to be sure that wasn't true, and I found that it wasn't what this church taught at all. It is a new covenant church. They recognize the holiness of God in the old testament, and this should be done, I think, by new covenant Christians.

People talk a lot about the Bible as being the word of God. But the word of God is actually Christ himself. He didn't just begin to use parables, signs, symbols and analogies in the Gospels and New Testament. The whole of the Old Testament was communicated by himself. This may be difficult to accept by those who have been taught erroneous humanly inspired doctrines but it is the truth. The whole of the Bible is written in a kind of code that is designed to reveal Christ and the destiny of humanity in stages and to prevent enemies of the truth from corrupting or destroying parts of the message.

In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God.

John 1 vs 1 KJV

One day his Disciples asked Jesus why he spoke to the people in parables. He gave them what appears
to an extraordinary answer. He said he did so that they might hear but not listen and look but not see lest they turn to him and be saved.

And he said unto them unto you it is given to know the mystery
of the kingdom of God but unto them that are without, all things
are done in parables. That seeing they may see and not perceive
and hearing they may hear and not understand lest at anytime they
should be converted and their sins should be forgiven them.

Mark 4 : 11 - 12 KJV

And he said Go and tell this people, Hear ye indeed but understand not
and see you indeed but perceive not. Make the heart of this people fat
and make their ears heavy and shut their eyes lest they see with their eyes
and hear with their ears and understand with their heart and convert and
be healed. Then said I Lord how long? And he answered, Until the cities
be wasted without inhabitant and the houses without men and the land
be utterly desolate.

Isaiah 6: 9 - 11 KJV




The Bible uses many things as types and symbols taken from nature, places and human activity to
communicate Gods message. The Holy Spirit guides and teaches us to understand that code given
to us by the Word of God himself.

 

[elights]

I don’t seem to agree to the opinion that someone that has been called of God can teach what he doesn’t believe because it’s God’s practice to first have the leader believe what he is supposed to do and then the rest follow by reason of anointing on the head.take a case of Gideon the judge in Judges 6:33-40,he encounters God and God made sure Gideon goes to battle as a leader but when is convinced the Lord of Hosts is with them and the rest were to follow Gideon’s orders,look at Peter in Luke 22:32,until you’re converted,you cannot strengthen your brother taking this verse as it says,now there are key points I want to make here
First,God cannot call someone to lead his people without the anointing that will help the congregation follow what the preacher believes and teaches unless if someone entered ministry through some window.
Second,Even when the preacher is anointed and follows God closely doesn’t necessarily mean all members of the church will believe or practice what he preaches,Jesus Christ had twelve disciples but of the them was a Judas(walked with him three and half years but still couldn’t believe his teaching and eventually betrayed him) now imagine someone leading a church of about 20,000 people,I came to realize that of every twelve believers,there is always one who will be on a different plane!
Lastly,we will go to heaven someday not on the basis of the good that we are able to do,John 3:16 says ....that whoever believes in him should not perish but have everlasting life,it doesn’t talk about not deceiving,not fornicating,not killing etc but only talks about believing Jesus,so it’s the believing in Jesus that will one day produce those qualities that most of us want to see in a Christian .we know in the natural that a tree only produces a fruit when it’s mature ,in 1 Peter 1:23 it teaches Christ’s life in us is like a seed,if it’s taken care of and watered well,it’s the one that produces the fruits we all desire and this is not dependent on how long he has been in church but how much he yields himself to the spirit!!

 

[tanakh]

I don’t seem to agree to the opinion that someone that has been called of God can teach what he doesn’t believe because it’s God’s practice to first have the leader believe what he is supposed to do and then the rest follow by reason of anointing on the head.take a case of Gideon the judge in Judges 6:33-40,he encounters God and God made sure Gideon goes to battle as a leader but when is convinced the Lord of Hosts is with them and the rest were to follow Gideon’s orders,look at Peter in Luke 22:32,until you’re converted,you cannot strengthen your brother taking this verse as it says,now there are key points I want to make here
First,God cannot call someone to lead his people without the anointing that will help the congregation follow what the preacher believes and teaches unless if someone entered ministry through some window.
Second,Even when the preacher is anointed and follows God closely doesn’t necessarily mean all members of the church will believe or practice what he preaches,Jesus Christ had twelve disciples but of the them was a Judas(walked with him three and half years but still couldn’t believe his teaching and eventually betrayed him) now imagine someone leading a church of about 20,000 people,I came to realize that of every twelve believers,there is always one who will be on a different plane!
Lastly,we will go to heaven someday not on the basis of the good that we are able to do,John 3:16 says ....that whoever believes in him should not perish but have everlasting life,it doesn’t talk about not deceiving,not fornicating,not killing etc but only talks about believing Jesus,so it’s the believing in Jesus that will one day produce those qualities that most of us want to see in a Christian .we know in the natural that a tree only produces a fruit when it’s mature ,in 1 Peter 1:23 it teaches Christ’s life in us is like a seed,if it’s taken care of and watered well,it’s the one that produces the fruits we all desire and this is not dependent on how long he has been in church but how much he yields himself to the spirit!!

Church leaders believe what their Denomination or Group believe. This is the reason that there are so many Denominations. Many were formed because a person or persons disagreed with the leader or some teaching and went off to form their own Church. The result is that instead of Christ having one
whole body he has a body that that has been torn apart. There is a hymn that sums this up -

We are one in the Spirit we are one in the Lord
We are one in the Spirit we are one in the Lord
And we pray that our unity will one day be restored
And they will know we are Christians by our love by
our love They will know we are Christians by our love

We will work with each other we will work side by side
We will work with each other we will work side by side
And we'll guard each mans dignity and save each mans pride
And they will know we are Christians by our love. They will
know we are Christians by our love.

We will walk with each other we will walk hand in hand
We will walk with each other we will walk hand in hand
And we will spread the news that God is in our land
And they will know we are Christians by our love
And they will know we are Christians by our love

When will all this get started?


When will Churches move from giving congregations milk and moving on to meat?
In fact some haven't even opened the milk bottle!

For everyone that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness for he is a babe
But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age even those who by reason of
use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.

Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection
not laying again the foundations of repentance from dead works and the faith towards God
The doctrine of baptisms and the laying on of hands and the resurrection of the dead and of
eternal judgement. And this will we do if God permits.

Hebrews 5 : 13-14 - 6: 1 -3 KJV

The person who destroyed the unity of Christs body apart from Satan was Constantine
that famous Sun worshipper and Jew hater whose infamous creed is still chanted and
taken note of up until this day.

 

[p_rehbein]

People talk a lot about the Bible as being the word of God. But the word of God is actually Christ himself.

Yes; Jesus is the LIVING WORD
however, the Bible is the WRITTEN WORD
so both are accurate

The Written Word is what testifies of the Living Word

 

[tanakh]

Yes; Jesus is the LIVING WORD
however, the Bible is the WRITTEN WORD
so both are accurate

The Written Word is what testifies of the Living Word

The written word does indeed testify to the living word because it was the living word that
told the Human writers what to write down. The whole Bible is a Parable about Christs first
and second coming. It is spiritual truth written in parables.