HEROD'S SLAUGHTER OF THE INNOCENTS

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
P

pottersclay

Guest
#21
“O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not !

Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭23:37-38‬ ‭KJV‬‬

I needed to leave that part so we understood who this is about

Hear another parable: There was a certain householder, which planted a vineyard, and hedged it round about, and digged a winepress in it, and built a tower, and let it out to husbandmen, ( israel ) and went into a far country:

and when the time of the fruit drew near, he sent his servants to the husbandmen, ( the early prophets ) that they might receive the fruits of it. And the husbandmen took his servants, and beat one, and killed another, and stoned another.

Again, he sent other servants more than the first: ( the latter prophets ) and they did unto them likewise.

But last of all he sent unto them his son, saying, They will reverence my son. ( the long promised messiah Jesus )

But when the husbandmen saw the son, they said among themselves, This is the heir; come, let us kill him, and let us seize on his inheritance. And they caught him, and cast him out of the vineyard, ( they killed the prophets and crucified him ) and slew him.



When the Lord therefore of the vineyard cometh, what will he do unto those husbandmen? They say unto him, He will miserably destroy those wicked men, and will let out his vineyard unto other husbandmen, which shall render him the fruits in their seasons.

Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, The same is become the head of the corner: This is the Lord's doing, And it is marvellous in our eyes?

Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭21:33-43‬ ‭

This is more of the same concept

“The kingdom of heaven is like unto a certain king, which made a marriage for his son,

and sent forth his servants to call them that were bidden to the wedding: ( the early prophets ) and they would not come.( Israel’s rejection of them )

Again, he sent forth other servants, saying, Tell them which are bidden, Behold, I have prepared my dinner: my oxen and my fatlings are killed, and all things are ready: come unto the marriage. ( the latter prophets )

But they made light of it, and went their ways, one to his farm, another to his merchandise: and the remnant took his servants, and entreated them spitefully, and slew them. ( Israel’s killing ofnthe prophets God sent to call then to repentance )

But when the king heard thereof, he was wroth: and he sent forth his armies, and destroyed those murderers, and burned up their city.

Then saith he to his servants, The wedding is ready, but they which were bidden were not worthy. ( Israel rejected the gospel and it was sent to all nations as was written Jerusalem was destroyed in 67-70 ad including the temple )

Go ye therefore into the highways, and as many as ye shall find, bid to the marriage. So those servants went out into the highways, and gathered together all as many as they found, both bad and good: and the wedding was furnished with guests.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭22:2-10‬ ‭KJV‬‬

the man made temple was only a pattern until Christ the true temple of the Holy Ghost came forth

the Holy Ghost this signifying, that the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest, while as the first tabernacle was yet standing:”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭9:8‬ ‭KJV‬‬

The man made temple was never how one came into gods presence it was a pattern of Jesus

“Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up. Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days? But he spake of the temple of his body. When therefore he was risen from the dead, his disciples remembered that he had said this unto them; and they believed the scripture, and the word which Jesus had said.”
‭‭John‬ ‭2:19-22‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Jesus is the temple why would people who have the Holy Spirit living inside them need to Goni to a building where Gods spirit meets them ? It was only a pattern

“And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, ( there’s a Jerusalem in heaven ) prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

…And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it. And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭21:2, 22-23‬ ‭KJV‬‬

The temple serves a purpose it was where Gods spirit met with the priests and gave guidance to Moses and the people through the angel. We have become Gods temple through Christ we are his building and habitation

“Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭3:16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

a that’s what the temple was place for Gods spirit to dwell in the most holy place it’s center room that’s only a figure for Gods spirit living in our center room our heart our most holy place is where Gods spirit dwells and communes with us the temple has become irrelevant being a pattern beforehand of the true things

“For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭10:1‬ ‭KJV‬‬

The temple made by man was a pattern of Gods true temple it fell because the old covenant was fulfilled and it has no more use
So you see this as God destroying the temple as the act of revenge for rejection?
 

ChrisTillinen

Active member
Sep 16, 2022
354
184
43
#22
It has to do with the slaughter of the innocents... it is a commentary about it, and it's from a book, other than the Bible.

The purpose of my post was to highlight the fact that this biblical account of Herod ordering the slaughter of the children under the age of two (an account which is deemed implausible by many) is confirmed by the emperor Octavian (who is quoted by Macrobius).
The event narrated by Macrobius is not the same one as that reported by Matthew. But it does show the ruthless character of Herod, as does another incident reported by Josephus where Herod ordered people to be killed at the time of his own death so that people would mourn (although I think the orders were no carried out). Given how small Bethlehem was, it's not that surprising that this event wasn't mentioned elsewhere. The other two events connected to Herod were also mentioned in just one source (I think).

Here's an article about these matters: https://biblearchaeology.org/resear...nnocents-historical-fact-or-legendary-fiction
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
13,965
5,666
113
#23
So you see this as God destroying the temple as the act of revenge for rejection?
and not at all I see it as a fulfillment of what he said throughout the Old Testament Israel’s covenant was what God said to them l I have done brother is really studied the law not tries to assume what it says but really accepted it so like this I just try to let this be true as well as the rest

“But if ye will not hearken unto me, and will not do all these commandments; and if ye shall despise my statutes, or if your soul abhor my judgments, so that ye will not do all my commandments, but that ye break my covenant: I also will do this unto you; I will even appoint over you terror, consumption, and the burning ague, that shall consume the eyes, and cause sorrow of heart: and ye shall sow your seed in vain, for your enemies shall eat it. And I will set my face against you, and ye shall be slain before your enemies: they that hate you shall reign over you; and ye shall flee when none pursueth you. And if ye will not yet for all this hearken unto me, then I will punish you seven times more for your sins. And I will break the pride of your power; and I will make your heaven as iron, and your earth as brass: and your strength shall be spent in vain: for your land shall not yield her increase, neither shall the trees of the land yield their fruits. And if ye walk contrary unto me, and will not hearken unto me; I will bring seven times more plagues upon you according to your sins. I will also send wild beasts among you, which shall rob you of your children, and destroy your cattle, and make you few in number; and your high ways shall be desolate. And if ye will not be reformed by me by these things, but will walk contrary unto me; then will I also walk contrary unto you, and will punish you yet seven times for your sins.

And I will bring a sword upon you, that shall avenge the quarrel of my covenant: and when ye are gathered together within your cities, I will send the pestilence among you; and ye shall be delivered into the hand of the enemy. And when I have broken the staff of your bread, ten women shall bake your bread in one oven, and they shall deliver you your bread again by weight: and ye shall eat, and not be satisfied.

And if ye will not for all this hearken unto me, but walk contrary unto me; then I will walk contrary unto you also in fury; and I, even I, will chastise you seven times for your sins. And ye shall eat the flesh of your sons, and the flesh of your daughters shall ye eat. And I will destroy your high places, and cut down your images, and cast your carcases upon the carcases of your idols, and my soul shall abhor you. And I will make your cities waste, and bring your sanctuaries unto desolation, and I will not smell the savour of your sweet odours. And I will bring the land into desolation: and your enemies which dwell therein shall be astonished at it. And I will scatter you among the heathen, and will draw out a sword after you: and your land shall be desolate, and your cities waste.

Then shall the land enjoy her sabbaths, as long as it lieth desolate, and ye be in your enemies' land; even then shall the land rest, and enjoy her sabbaths. As long as it lieth desolate it shall rest; because it did not rest in your sabbaths, when ye dwelt upon it.”
‭‭Leviticus‬ ‭26:14-35‬ ‭KJV‬‬

then I just realize all of that is why Jerusalem the City and it’s temple ( sanctuary ) was destroyed nearly two thousand years ago because my view of the first covenant law is that it was ordained by this angel

“Behold, I send an Angel before thee, to keep thee in the way, and to bring thee into the place which I have prepared. Beware of him, and obey his voice, provoke him not; for he will not pardon your transgressions: for my name is in him.”
‭‭Exodus‬ ‭23:20-21‬ ‭KJV‬‬

So all those courses in that law had to be fulfilled and osreels destruction is one of them including their sanctuaries see they used those temples to worship idols and false Gods thier covenant was ordained of that angel so it’s condition was this

“See, I have set before thee this day life and good, and death and evil; in that I command thee this day to love the LORD thy God, to walk in his ways, and to keep his commandments and his statutes and his judgments, that thou mayest live and multiply: and the LORD thy God shall bless thee in the land whither thou goest to possess it. But if thine heart turn away, so that thou wilt not hear, but shalt be drawn away, and worship other gods, and serve them; I denounce unto you this day, that ye shall surely perish, and that ye shall not prolong your days upon the land, whither thou passest over Jordan to go to possess it. I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:”
‭‭Deuteronomy‬ ‭30:15-19‬ ‭KJV‬‬

my position is that thier covenant was fulfilled as the many curses for breaking it because the angel was given ordination over them when they worshipped the calf at Sinai

and the new covenant is Abraham’s covenant being fuflilled
 
Dec 29, 2022
31
18
8
#24
.

Matt 2:10 . . When they saw the star, they were overjoyed.

NOTE: As the earth turns, stars appear to move across the sky from the east
towards the west. Here is a star that moved south, and also came to a stop;
which should alert planetariums that it wasn't an astronomical object.
Planets do that. They were called wandering stars.

Matt 2:9 . . It stopped over the place where the child was.
Nobody had precision astronomical instruments back then;
The science and technology was advanced. https://www.britannica.com/topic/Antikythera-mechanism


so it would've
been a challenge finding the exact house over which the object hovered. Try
it sometime. Find a dark-sky location and, using only your eyes, see if you
can pick out the star that is precisely over your head.
Normal stars are so far out in space that it is nigh unto impossible to tell the
exact spot on earth where one of them is at any given moment without
special instruments; so I think we can be reasonably confident that this star
was low enough that there was no mistaking the exact house where young
Jesus was lodged. In other words; this star wasn't a star, rather, it was a
God-given apparition.
The ground positon of any star at anytime can be calculated with a great degree of accuracy. It could very easily been a star.