Hermeneutics: Interpreting Scripture

[GWH]

Seeing no one claiming to have infallible understanding of GW, denying that open-minded truthseekers should be pre-disposed to hope they might go to heaven via God's Way, or objecting to the hermeneutical method of Jesus and Paul, I will continue sharing a few more details for your consideration.

The Bible says God’s Spirit is love and truth (1JN 4:8 & 5:6), which means all love (agape, RM 6:5-8) in all people is God’s operation, and all truth in all cultures is God’s revelation. Thus, becoming a Christian theist does not mean rejecting what is good and true in one’s pre-Christian experience or culture.

As the philosopher Hegel taught: when considering two different understandings (thesis A versus antithesis B), the truth may not be either one or the other but rather the proper harmonization of the two. (Both A and B = synthesis C.) [BTW, this is about the only tenet of Hegel I understand and affirm ;^]

The Bible teaches (GN 1:3, JN 1:1-3) that both the world and inspired words are expressions of God’s Word/Logos, and thus scientific and spiritual truths must be compatible or else God would be tricky. So, while belief that God is love and Jesus is Lord is based upon the biblical revelation, knowledge also is gleaned from the natural sciences and common sense. While my interpretation of reality is influenced by the Bible, I utilize logical thinking, especially where the Bible seems silent, hoping that I am guided by the Spirit of Truth (JN 14:17).

I believe everyone ought to embrace this ecumenical hermeneutic. Logic is a way every sane soul can have access to the supreme Mind or Logos (1CR 2:11-16). Right logic is the glue that binds all individual truths together in one catholic or universal faith.

Logic provides the rationale for believing that the history of humanity is not a farce, and it sustains the hope of experiencing love and joy in a future heavenly existence. The beauty of this hermeneutic is the harmonization of whatever is good and true in all religions or isms.

However, I realize that—just as frequently happens when a person shares favorite musical or scenic beauty with someone else—it may not move your soul like mine (MT 11:16-17).

Because I realize that we all have different tastes regarding beautiful music or scenery, I am surprised no one has questioned my saying these truths:

1. All love (agape, RM 6:5-8) in all people is God’s operation, and all truth in all cultures is God’s revelation. Thus, becoming a Christian theist does not mean rejecting what is good and true in one’s pre-Christian experience or culture.

2. Hegel's doctrine of synthesis is often true: When considering two different understandings (thesis A versus antithesis B), the truth may not be either one or the other but rather the proper harmonization of the two (both A and B = synthesis C.)

3. Because both the world and inspired words are expressions of God’s Word/Logos, scientific and spiritual truths must be compatible or else God would be tricky, so while interpretation of reality is influenced by the Bible, one may also utilize logical thinking guided by the Spirit of Truth.

4. This biblical and ecumenical hermeneutic is a way every sane soul can have access to the supreme Mind or Logos by means of right logic that binds all truths together in one catholic faith, providing the rationale for believing that the history of humanity is not a farce because of a rational hope of experiencing love and joy in a future heavenly existence.

 

[GWH]

I will conclude the explanation of how the infinite and holy God communicates with finite and fallible humans by noting two phenomena: accommodation and distanciation.

It appears that God accommodates His revelation so that it corresponds with human moral and intellectual development, imparting His Spirit/Word by means of words, both literal and figurative (cf. MT 7:24-27, 16:6-12, etc.). And in order to create volitional beings having moral free will, God designed reality so that His presence is less than compelling, so that we usually experience God as rather distant from us and “unknown” (ACTS 17:23) rather than depending on angels and miracles. Even Jesus (God the Son) on the cross cried out “My God [the Father], why have you forsaken [taken God the Spirit from] me?” (MT 27:46, PS 51:11)

We may feel distant from God even though He is close or immanent, “for in Him we live and move and have our being” (ACTS 17:28), because God’s normative means of conversion is persuasion rather than coercion (MT 12:39, 24:24, 1CR 1:22-23). This is seen very clearly in Jesus’ lament over the obstinacy of Jerusalem (MT 23:37). Apparently, undeniable miracles would be coercive or tantamount to demanding conversion and love at gunpoint. Because of human limitations and the necessity of accommodation and distanciation, we must be content with sufficient rather than perfect or inerrant knowledge of God’s revelation and not be unduly concerned when we find grains of sand (discrepancies and problematic passages) amid the gold or truth.

 

[GWH]

I will end this quest for answering Jesus' John 17 prayer with the lyrics of a song.

We are one in the Spirit, we are one in the Lord
We are one in the Spirit, we are one in the Lord
And we pray that all unity may one day be restored
And they'll know we are Christians by our love.

All praise to the Father from whom all things come
And all praise to Christ Jesus His only Son
And all praise to the Spirit who makes us one
And they'll know we are Christians by our love.

 

[Dino246]

God chooses all who are sincere to know God, not interested in the here and now gains. (cf. MT 6:33)

I'm trying to understand what you mean here:

All who are sincere (about anything) are chosen to know God

or

All who sincerely seek to know God are chosen (for something not specified in your post)

?

 

[GWH]

I'm trying to understand what you mean here:

All who are sincere (about anything) are chosen to know God

or

All who sincerely seek to know God are chosen (for something not specified in your post)

?

HomewardBound stated that, and I understand it referring to MT 6:33, "Seek first God's kingdom and His righteousness..." combined and harmonized with HB 11:6b, "God rewards [chooses/saves] those who earnestly seek Him".

 

[GWH]

Postscript Regarding Prescript

In the quest for greater Christian unity I requested that we identify the Scripture from which our interpretations of GW spring, which prompted me to clarify my own Top Ten in the following logical order.

1. Formerly/at first I was without hope of salvation from meaninglessness and death. (EPH 3:12b)

2. So I sought salvation and found God. (MT 7:7, HB 11:6b)

3. The loving God who wants all souls to learn the truth about how to be saved. (1TM 2:3-4, JN 3:16)

4. Which is to believe that Jesus is Christ, whose death atoned for humanity’s sins. (1TM 2:5-6)

5. As taught in all inspired Scripture interpreted in light of this Gospel of salvation. (2TM 3:15)

6. Such interpretation of GW also teaches how to be godly after being saved. (2TM 3:16-17)

7. Which doctrine Jesus summarized as loving God, oneself and everyone else. (MT 22:37-40)

8. And which moral maturity Paul termed as the fruit of the Holy Spirit. (GL 5:13-23)

9. That requires persevering in saving faith and learning God’s Word. (MT 4:4, 10:22)

10. So that we will grant the prayer of Jesus for us to be one in our witness. (JN 17:20-23)

What are YOUR Top 10 Scripture passages?

 

[posthuman]

My goal in this thread is to discuss how we can answer Christ's prayer for spiritual unity among his followers that is found in John 17:20-23.
It seems to me that a lot of chat by Christians tends to ignore Jesus' concern, but for those who share it the question is how to achieve it, and the answer involves agreeing on one interpretation of Scripture.

Thus, I would like to begin by sharing a way of interpreting Scripture that is based on the instruction of Paul in 1THS 5:21 to “Test everything. Hold on to the good.” As I have been seeking ultimate truth and testing what I have learned, I have come to value two NT teachings as key points from which to triangulate or use to guide my interpretation of the Bible, especially problematic statements, but before I share them I would like to ask y'all to tell which two most guide your thinking and chatting.

Thanks and love in Christ (LIC)

you also need to find an OT complement to any NT passage, because when Paul wrote this the only scripture was the OT, same with those in Berea who tested everything they were hearing against the scripture: it was the OT.
likewise everything you read in the OT, look for the NT complement - - and in all of this find how it testifies of Christ, per John 5:39.

 

[GWH]

you also need to find an OT complement to any NT passage, because when Paul wrote this the only scripture was the OT, same with those in Berea who tested everything they were hearing against the scripture: it was the OT.
likewise everything you read in the OT, look for the NT complement - - and in all of this find how it testifies of Christ, per John 5:39.

Yes, as long as one understands that the OT was fulfilled by Christ and superseded by God's new covenant (GN 12:3b, 15:6, 22:8, 2SM 7:12-16, JOB 24:12, PS 2:1-2, 22:6-18, 110:1&4, IS 7:14, 9:2&7, 52:13-53:12, JR 31:31, EZK 37:12, HOS 13:14, JL 2:28, MIC 5:2-5, ZCH 2:11, ML 3:1.

 

[posthuman]

Yes, as long as one understands that the OT was fulfilled by Christ and superseded by God's new covenant (GN 12:3b, 15:6, 22:8, 2SM 7:12-16, JOB 24:12, PS 2:1-2, 22:6-18, 110:1&4, IS 7:14, 9:2&7, 52:13-53:12, JR 31:31, EZK 37:12, HOS 13:14, JL 2:28, MIC 5:2-5, ZCH 2:11, ML 3:1.

of course - but i meant, in terms of hermeneutic, to understand that the gospel is all over the OT, that it was from the OT that Christ and His apostles preached it. and that the old and new are not separated but complexly intertwined, the new is the contunuation of the old.
and that the proper interpretation of the OT, even it's primary intent ((while it is of course literally historical)) is to testify of Christ. it is to present testimony of Christ in types and shadows why certain historical facts were written and others left out; He is on every page of the Prophets and the Torah and the Psalms, and right understanding of those things is seeing Him in them, and how they link to all He said and did in His advent.
likewise right understanding of what took place in the NT is seeing it in relation to the OT

 

[posthuman]

Yes, as long as one understands that the OT was fulfilled by Christ and superseded by God's new covenant (GN 12:3b, 15:6, 22:8, 2SM 7:12-16, JOB 24:12, PS 2:1-2, 22:6-18, 110:1&4, IS 7:14, 9:2&7, 52:13-53:12, JR 31:31, EZK 37:12, HOS 13:14, JL 2:28, MIC 5:2-5, ZCH 2:11, ML 3:1.

we have through faith become children of Abraham, who was hundreds of years before Moses

 

[GWH]

of course - but i meant, in terms of hermeneutic, to understand that the gospel is all over the OT, that it was from the OT that Christ and His apostles preached it. and that the old and new are not separated but complexly intertwined, the new is the contunuation of the old.
and that the proper interpretation of the OT, even it's primary intent ((while it is of course literally historical)) is to testify of Christ. it is to present testimony of Christ in types and shadows why certain historical facts were written and others left out; He is on every page of the Prophets and the Torah and the Psalms, and right understanding of those things is seeing Him in them, and how they link to all He said and did in His advent.
likewise right understanding of what took place in the NT is seeing it in relation to the OT

I understand and agree, which is why I cited some of the OT Scriptures to which you refer.

Yes, the OT and NT must be understood together or harmonized in a way that affirms the NT Gospel of Christ.

 

[JohnDB]

If I might chime in....

There are ONLY two things scriptures refer to as "God Breathed life into them".

One is mankind....but we screwed that up pretty quickly. (Genesis 1-3)
Then there's scriptures itself. And where the Lord knows we have tried...God has preserved them just like He intends to preserve us. Scriptures are "living and active" (Hebrews 4:12) because God breathed life into them (2Timothy 3:16). Where many people claim they want a personal relationship with Christ they somehow ignore John 1:14 where "the Word became flesh" because Jesus is the very living embodiment of the Old Testament scriptures. Know the scriptures to really know Jesus. How hard you work at it determines your relationship. No shortcuts...no Jesus outside of scriptures.

Now to get away from this too close a look at scriptures....because you lose all context.

I can post a single word selected from a single verse of scripture and make up any moral lesson I wish....and it's been done often enough.
And it's not right!

Time to know the full view of scriptures.
And that means ignoring the verse numbers or chapter divisions in scriptures....meaning read further!....know further!

Most exegetical commentaries are worthless and over half of the expositional commentaries are as well. Because where they claim to be expositions they are exegetical in nature. Sometimes this cannot be helped because of the nature of scriptures....it certainly is telling the reader what to thing instead of providing the background to the passages.

 

[posthuman]

There are ONLY two things scriptures refer to as "God Breathed life into them".

remember that at the time of the flood, all animal life is described as having "the breath of life" including mankind, and that Solomon declares man is an animal.
also if one looks at the Hebrew, the words "living soul" are the same describing both humankind and all other animals.

it is straightforward to understand that He also breathed His breath of life into birds and cats and horses and pigs, just as He did with us - but we are created after His image.

not a sparrow falls, but He knows it. and our lives are worth more than theirs - why?
they did not sin, and their souls are never in any danger, but we do, and they are subject to death not because of anything they have done, but for our sake.

harmonizing Romans 8 and Genesis 1-3, seeing that the blood of the Lamb slain, and the blood shed to clothe Adam and Eve, and the cursing of the ground for his sake - not cursing Adam - are one and the same, testifying of resurrection and redemption: the works of Christ

 

[GWH]

If I might chime in....

There are ONLY two things scriptures refer to as "God Breathed life into them".

One is mankind....but we screwed that up pretty quickly. (Genesis 1-3)
Then there's scriptures itself. And where the Lord knows we have tried...God has preserved them just like He intends to preserve us. Scriptures are "living and active" (Hebrews 4:12) because God breathed life into them (2Timothy 3:16). Where many people claim they want a personal relationship with Christ they somehow ignore John 1:14 where "the Word became flesh" because Jesus is the very living embodiment of the Old Testament scriptures. Know the scriptures to really know Jesus. How hard you work at it determines your relationship. No shortcuts...no Jesus outside of scriptures.

Now to get away from this too close a look at scriptures....because you lose all context.

I can post a single word selected from a single verse of scripture and make up any moral lesson I wish....and it's been done often enough.
And it's not right!

Time to know the full view of scriptures.
And that means ignoring the verse numbers or chapter divisions in scriptures....meaning read further!....know further!

Most exegetical commentaries are worthless and over half of the expositional commentaries are as well. Because where they claim to be expositions they are exegetical in nature. Sometimes this cannot be helped because of the nature of scriptures....it certainly is telling the reader what to thing instead of providing the background to the passages.

I agree. GW is not rocket science, so read it for oneself and be edified--then read it again and be reedified!

BTW, your concern regarding exegesis is why I make a concerted effort merely to edit or let Scripture interpret Scripture, although every now and then when I am unaware of relevant Scripture I may humbly employ reasoning ability.

 

[JohnDB]

I agree. GW is not rocket science, so read it for oneself and be edified--then read it again and be reedified!

BTW, your concern regarding exegesis is why I make a concerted effort merely to edit or let Scripture interpret Scripture, although every now and then when I am unaware of relevant Scripture I may humbly employ reasoning ability.

Well, that's one type of hermeneutics...

But hermeneutics, in truth, is a BLEND of both science and arts.

The sciences of history, anthropology, sociology, topography, geography, meteorology, and etc along with ALL the literary arts we see today in poetry, music, and etc. Because these arts were first used in scriptures...which is why "Classics" are considered such. They brought to light certain creative aspects of scripture to life in "modern" stories of their day and time.

Scripture reading and knowledge is a lifestyle choice....a "relationship" if you want to perceive it as such.

It won't make you any more fun at parties than intensive knowledge of Mideval French Poetry would....but it will give you knowledge of how to please God.

 

[GWH]

Well, that's one type of hermeneutics...

But hermeneutics, in truth, is a BLEND of both science and arts.

The sciences of history, anthropology, sociology, topography, geography, meteorology, and etc along with ALL the literary arts we see today in poetry, music, and etc. Because these arts were first used in scriptures...which is why "Classics" are considered such. They brought to light certain creative aspects of scripture to life in "modern" stories of their day and time.

Scripture reading and knowledge is a lifestyle choice....a "relationship" if you want to perceive it as such.

It won't make you any more fun at parties than intensive knowledge of Mideval French Poetry would....but it will give you knowledge of how to please God.

The arts and entertainment can be interesting and fun up to a point, but their meaning depends on the message, and most modern messages do not further the evangelization of the world.

The social sciences have been tainted by bias and unbiblical ideology.

The physical sciences and math are now involved with AI that may further the corruption and end of the world.

Other than that, I agree with you.

 

[JohnDB]

The arts and entertainment can be interesting and fun up to a point, but their meaning depends on the message, and most modern messages do not further the evangelization of the world.

The social sciences have been tainted by bias and unbiblical ideology.

The physical sciences and math are now involved with AI that may further the corruption and end of the world.

Other than that, I agree with you.

Well...those social sciences of the Ancient Near East also have topography and archeology to confirm their conclusions.

One such thing is the term "green pastures" as mentioned in Psalms 23.
We perceive belly deep alfalfa when we read this....but in truth it's not that at all. There are no fields of belly deep alfalfa or grass anywhere near Bethlehem. There are the grazing hills where the shepherd stands singing to his sheep and the sheep walk trails traversing along the hillsides where the rocks collect dew which waters grass tufts along the way. (All below sea level)
Which also lends to the phrase "my sheep hear my voice". (Sheep didn't move at all without the shepherd)
And a reason how and why David wrote so many Psalms (he was a shepherd as a child)

Which all this still continues today in the Middle East. Sheep and Goats still are raised for their wool, which is still used for tentmaking. (As is camel hair) Even though modern materials are available. The broom tree still exists...so are many other ancient trees and plants mentioned in scriptures.
There's a wealth of information that goes along side of scripture that still exists today which was never included in the writings of scripture due to the concentrated writing style of scriptures.

 

[GWH]

Well...those social sciences of the Ancient Near East also have topography and archeology to confirm their conclusions.

One such thing is the term "green pastures" as mentioned in Psalms 23.
We perceive belly deep alfalfa when we read this....but in truth it's not that at all. There are no fields of belly deep alfalfa or grass anywhere near Bethlehem. There are the grazing hills where the shepherd stands singing to his sheep and the sheep walk trails traversing along the hillsides where the rocks collect dew which waters grass tufts along the way. (All below sea level)
Which also lends to the phrase "my sheep hear my voice". (Sheep didn't move at all without the shepherd)
And a reason how and why David wrote so many Psalms (he was a shepherd as a child)

Which all this still continues today in the Middle East. Sheep and Goats still are raised for their wool, which is still used for tentmaking. (As is camel hair) Even though modern materials are available. The broom tree still exists...so are many other ancient trees and plants mentioned in scriptures.
There's a wealth of information that goes along side of scripture that still exists today which was never included in the writings of scripture due to the concentrated writing style of scriptures.

Well, I perceive something better than my front yard when I read "green pastures", but I agree with everything you said this time except that the social sciences are psychology, sociology, politics--things like that. I guess archeology is a pretty hard science.

 

[JohnDB]

Well, I perceive something better than my front yard when I read "green pastures", but I agree with everything you said this time except that the social sciences are psychology, sociology, politics--things like that. I guess archeology is a pretty hard science.

Well I mentioned Ancient Near East Anthropology....it's not as soft a soft science as some would like it to be either. It's pretty hard. Of course there are some things we don't know...but what we do know makes scriptures very clear as well. All a matter of taking the time to look.
We are, at a minimum, 2,000 years after the last book was written and half a planet away in a culture that is Westernized and Roman based.
Our language is Noun based unlike Hebrew which is a verb based, metaphoric language. (It doesn't really translate well into any modern language)
And unless we understand the verbs and metaphors we will have a difficult time getting to the truths the scripture has for us in even the most seemingly easily understood sections.

 

[GWH]

Well I mentioned Ancient Near East Anthropology....it's not as soft a soft science as some would like it to be either. It's pretty hard. Of course there are some things we don't know...but what we do know makes scriptures very clear as well. All a matter of taking the time to look.
We are, at a minimum, 2,000 years after the last book was written and half a planet away in a culture that is Westernized and Roman based.
Our language is Noun based unlike Hebrew which is a verb based, metaphoric language. (It doesn't really translate well into any modern language)
And unless we understand the verbs and metaphors we will have a difficult time getting to the truths the scripture has for us in even the most seemingly easily understood sections.

Yes, we must assume/believe that as Earthlings speaking English the translations and Earth sciences are sufficiently accurate for them to serve God's desire for everyone to learn the truth.